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I have a problem with an article Kenneth Copeland wrote

torcot

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I have a monthly subscription to Believer's Voice of Victory, and just got around to reading my April magazine all the way through. In "The Faith of Abraham" pg. 6, 5th paragraph down he says "It tells us, for example, that 'through faith... the worlds were framed by the WORD of God' ". The problem I have with that is that the verse doesn't say that, it says "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,"

He left out "we understand", and this to me is changing God's word. Can someone explain why he would leave out those two words? This to me is very serious.
 

CindyisHis

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That's really cool that you know the Word so well that you caught that!

To me, that is not a big deal because it does not change the verse as far as what it means in context to the point he's making in the article. Now if the subject has to do with how understanding comes through faith, or better put, because of faith our understanding is increased, then it would be vital to keep that preposition in there.

The point is, the world was framed by the Word of God, isn't it? I mean, isn't that the point the author of the article is making?
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Cindy:
I think what the OP is getting at is this... if we read "By faith the worlds were framed..." Then is it God's faith that created. It changes the focus of whose faith this verse is talking about. The verse biblically says that by our faith we understand [how the world was framed].

Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
torcot:
Now in context we see that Hebrews 11 tells us that faith is the substance and the evidence of what is not seen. God's faith certainly framed the world through His Word. In the entire context it is talking about what makes things visible from what is unseen. God gives us faith (faith cometh by hearing and hearing the Word of God) so that we may grow to experience this (Heb 11:1). It is our substance and our evidence that God's promises are ours to receive.
 
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CindyisHis

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So therefore we are to use words too....is that what the article is driving at? Or what the op is saying?

lol, I guess I'm missing it. Sorry.

I am in hurry to leave for work, and that's it for now. I'll check back with you later.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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But see the problem I have with it is it seems that Copeland changed the verse in order to support his thesis in stead of forming his thesis around the verse. He seems to change it in order to promote his view and that is what I find disturbing.
Well, I do see your point and can't disagree. Although I feel that WHAT Cope is preaching here is accurate, using THIS verse is not his best choice of support. It IS related, but not for this purpose, IMHO.
 
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pk4yahweh

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I would then not read anything that creation has to say. Your mind is giving you the correct action to take. I myself do not heed or follow any words creation gives.

Gary - with all due respect to you - this is the second of your posts that I have read and left with absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.

I find myself to be a fairly intelligent guy - but perhaps I am just missing it today?
 
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Shepherd1

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Hi Torcot

Your point is a very good one, and I'm sure most people would agree with it, however, one thing is for sure, and that is, no-one can dispute the fact that the world was indeed formed by the Word of God, and so we must cut Brother Copeland some slack, after all, he is a mighty man of God, doing his utmost to preach the word of God with clarity, and I wouldn't be put off by this one little perhaps we could call it an error of judgement. Just look at the fruit he produces... the Bible tells us we will know them by their fruit...



 
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Jedi.Kep

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I'm looking at the article and the verse and this argument doesn't work. Regardless of what words Copeland left out, the verse still affirms that "the worlds were framed by the WORD of God." God spoke, it happned. God's 'faith' created this world and everything in it. The same verse still confirms Copeland's point even though he approaches it by a different direction. Taking "we understand" out of the verse doesn't change the point being made.
 
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Shepherd1

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Thanks for sharing that Jedi - without me reading the article, you have confirmed my understanding of where brother Copeland was going with it. Well done! Kind of like saying 'Hey, this is what happened', or 'Hey, we understand that this is what happened" type of thing...LOL if ya get my drift...
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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I've refrained from further comment until now. I have to say OVERALL I agree with what is being said in general.

Got that guys and girls?? I agree overall....sort of.....in concept....

But....

...where I have a problem is this: the OP is about Cope taking this verse and leaving out a few words. Did it change ANY meaning.

We are focused herein on what Cope was preaching (worlds were framed by the Word of God) and what the verse says (...worlds were framed by the Word of God). My earlier point was that Cope leaving out some words DID INDEED change A meaning for the verse, just not this meaning (which I pointed out earlier too).

Ok, no problem with Cope's teaching in his article. Slight problem with his quoting of a verse.

Here is why (using this verse):
Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
This verse does NOT say: "by faith God framed the worlds..." In other words, God's faith.

This verse DOES say: "by faith we understand that..." In other words, we understand by our faith.

Cope is teaching that God framed the worlds by the Word....a teaching that is right on. So there was no reason to change the verse.

I guess my problem is that I'm somewhat of a language lawyer, and I am also one who believes in teaching from the Word and not from private revelation, unless (and it will always be the case) such revelation has DIRECT support from the Word. It is my belief from scripture that God will not give revelation unless it is supported in His Word; He will not ADD to this Word external to His Word. (Revelation should never be based upon "your knower" or "your witnesser" -- rather is should be based upon DIRECT support from the Word of God; revelation is a unique outlook from the Word on a specific activity going on in the life of a believer or an assembly of believers.)

So in that I am adament that when we use the Word for support we quote it directly and if we are going to leave out things that are not direct support of our topic then when we remove we put in ellipses (...) to show something was removed.

In Hebrews 11:3, perhaps Cope could have said "...the worlds were framed by the word of God," rather than quoting it without "we understand." And if attributes "faith" to God (as in God's faith) then this is not the verse to use to support such a concept, because faith here is the faith of "we" not the faith of God.

So I have no issue with Cope's teaching. I agree with the majority of posts here....kinda.....sorta.....maybe. I do, really I do.
 
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CindyisHis

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ABM, I get what you are saying and I see what you are saying. No problem. I wish Ken wouldn't have worded things the way he did because it makes for silly rabbit trail threads like this one.

For sure.

So everybody's right.

Yay. We all agree.
 
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dkbwarrior

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I disagree. I know exactly what Kenneth Copeland is saying, as I believe the same way. Faith is the invisible substance that God created the Worlds by. It isn't by faith that we understand anything, in fact it is just the opposite, understanding is what gives us faith; not the other way around. This verse is directly referring to the faith of God as the invisible substance by which the worlds were created.

Interestingly enough, I have a whole section on just this subject in my book on the principles of faith. From Part II, What Faith Is, Chapter 2, Faith Is A Substance:


*********************************************
FAITH IS the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for...[but] not seen.

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen.
-Hebrews 11:1

FAITH is a REAL THING.

FAITH is so REAL that it is called a SUBSTANCE by the writer of Hebrews. That is, it has a tangible real existence of its own.

SUB’’STANCE, n. [L. substantia, substo; sub and sto, to stand.]
In a general sense, being; something existing by itself; that which really is or exists; equally applicable to matter or spirit.
-Webster’s 1828 Unabridged Dictionary

The word SUBSTANCE is translated from the Greek word Hypostasis (hü-po'stäsēs), which is also a feminine noun, (Ref:- Strong’s’ Greek Lexicon-G5287), that is, a THING.

Now, to be fair, not all translations use the word SUBSTANCE here. Many use the word assurance or confidence instead. While these conform better to our present cultural definition of FAITH, they do a disservice to the context of the surrounding verses, (which support the KJV translator’s use of the word SUBSTANCE), and make it more difficult to understand true biblical FAITH, in the manner that the Holy Spirit intended it to be understood. Look at the next verse:

3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
-Hebrews 11:3a

The punctuation and word order of this sentence seem to indicate that it is FAITH that helps us to understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God. However, I take issue with this interpretation; and submit the following reasons to support my position:

This interpretation does not line up with the greater context of scripture. FAITH doesn’t produce understanding; in fact it is just the opposite. It is understanding that produces FAITH.

Do a search of the words faith and understand, and you will see that nowhere in the Bible does FAITH help us to understand. Faith believes, faith speaks, and faith acts, but FAITH does not help us understand. (In fact, it is just the opposite; it is understanding/revelation that deposits faith in our hearts, not faith that gives us understanding/revelation). The Holy Spirit is our helper, and it is He that gives us understanding and revelation of the Word of God, and it is this understanding/revelation that deposits the faith of God in our hearts.

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.
-John 16:13

3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;
5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles
and prophets by the Spirit;
-Ephesians 3:3a, 5

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,
neither have entered into the heart of man,
the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:
for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?
even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
-1 Corinthians 2:9-12

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
-Romans 10:17

In the original Greek manuscripts there are no punctuation marks, they have to be inserted for our benefit by the translators. This is up to the discretion of the translators, and, in many cases, like the one in question here; the placement of the punctuation can greatly change the meaning of the passage. For instance, if one were to change the punctuation of this verse slightly, we discover a whole new meaning in the verse:

3Through faith (we understand that)
the worlds were framed by the word of God,
-Hebrews 11:3a

We could also do the same thing by the placement of commas, as follows:

3Through faith, we understand that,
the worlds were framed by the word of God,
-Hebrews 11:3a

In other words, the changing of the punctuation here by the placement of parentheses around the words (we understand that), or the placement of commas before and after the same phrase, we understand that, create a sentence that appears to indicate something quite different, which is: we understand that it is through faith that the worlds were framed by the Word of God. This is consistent with the rest of scripture, and therefore is much more likely to be correct.

Also, in any translation from one language to another, sentence structure can vary widely, and often requires the order of the words in a sentence to change in order for the sentence to make sense when translated. This is also up to the discretion of the translators, and, in many cases, like the one in question here; the ordering of the words can again greatly change the meaning of the passage. For instance, if one were to change the order of the words of this verse just slightly, we discover a different meaning in the verse very similar to that in 2 above:

3We understand that through faith
the worlds were framed by the word of God,
-Hebrews 11:3a

In other words, the changing of the order of the words by moving the clause we understand that to the beginning of the line rather than the middle create a sentence that also appears to indicate that: it is through faith that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, and that is what we understand. Again, this is consistent with the rest of scripture, and therefore is much more likely to be correct.

Finally, the second half of the verse supports this conclusion further by saying:

3Through faith (we understand that) the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
-Hebrews 11:3

The Wycliffe Bible translates the second half of this verse a little clearer for us:

3 ... that visible things were made of invisible things.
-Hebrews 11:3

This passage tells us that the visible things, (that is, the physical creation around us), were made of invisible things.

What are these invisible things that made the visible things? The writer has basically spelled out the answer to that question for us at this point; it is the substance of faith.

One might say, yes but couldn’t the writer be referring to THE WORD as being the invisible things that created the universe? This could be a plausible explanation except for two things:
Reading the passage in context from verse one, faith has already been defined for us by the writer as the substance of things not seen, or invisible things:

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
-Hebrews 11:1

This creates a pretty much ironclad argument that the INVISIBLE THINGS in verse three are referring to the substance of faith, not the Word of God.

Referring back to the first half of verse three, we see that the subject of the sentence is FAITH:

3Through faith, we understand that, the worlds were framed by the word of God,
-Hebrews 11:3a

It would be improper use of language to have the predicate not refer back to the subject of the preceding clause. So then, the INVISIBLE THINGS that created the universe and all that is in it is faith.

Therefore we understand that God through (the unseen substance of) FAITH framed the worlds by His WORD. God spoke, and the worlds were created through the unseen SUBSTANCE of FAITH contained in His WORD.

This unseen substance of FAITH is the same thing that is being referenced by the apostle Paul in the book of Romans:

20For the INVISIBLE THINGS of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made…
-Romans 1:20a

The invisible things that powered the creation of the world are nothing less than the substance of Gods own FAITH contained in His WORD.

20For the INVISIBLE THINGS of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his ETERNAL POWER and GODHEAD;
so that they are without excuse:
-Romans 1:20

Here the writer calls this invisible substance of FAITH his ETERNAL POWER, and places it directly in the GODHEAD. That is because the invisible substance of Gods FAITH is the ETERNAL POWER of God, and it is also the ETERNAL essence of the GODHEAD itself.

Therefore we conclude that GOD IS FAITH.

FAITH is the invisible substance of Gods eternal power, and it is also the eternal essence of the Godhead itself; and it is in every WORD that He speaks.

It is God’s WORD of eternal power, full of the invisible substance of FAITH, the third person of the trinity, the essence of the Godhead itself, which reproduced Himself as the Son:

1God…
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory,
and the express image of his PERSON,
and upholding all things by the word of his power,
-Hebrews 1:1-3

We know that Jesus is the Son of the Living God, and the express image of Gods PERSON. What may not be so well known is that the word PERSON in the above passage is the same Greek word Hypostasis (hü-po'stäsēs), translated as SUBSTANCE in Hebrews 1:1. The word occurs 5 times in the Greek New Testament, and this is the only occasion where it is translated PERSON. That is because it doesn’t really mean PERSON, it means SUBSTANCE. The Greek word literally means “that which stands under” something else or “provides the basis for” something else.

Jesus was/is the express image of Gods invisible SUBSTANCE, that is, of His FAITH, the essence of the Godhead itself, because Jesus is The Word of God made flesh, and every Word of God contains the FAITH of God.

**********************************************

The reason that Kenneth Copeland skipped over the words 'we understand that' was because it is an article in a magazine, and he was trying to skip over having to convey what I just shared above, without going into the detailed explanation that I just gave. I see he did put in the '...' to show that he was skipping over some words; but because he wasn't talking about our understanding here, he simply skipped over those words, and replaced them with '...'.

It would be no different than if I quoted any verse or passage, and inserted '...' to skip over parts that didn't have any bearing on what I was saying. I actually do this on a more than rare occasion, and in fact, if you noticed, started this chapter with exactly that approach from Hebrews 11:1, when I said "FAITH IS the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for...[but] not seen. Why did I skip over the words 'the evidence of things'? Because in the chapter I am not talking about Faith as an Evidence, (that is the next chapter), I am talking about Faith as a substance. So I simply skipped over that part of the verse that I was not talking about for clarities sake.

I am confident that this is the same reasoning that Kenneth Copeland had.

Peace...
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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First (and out of order) thanks for posting your chapter on faith. I printed it and will study with it soon. Reading over it, it looks very good.

Wrong.

I agree that Cope is teaching that God's faith created the Worlds. And I have no disagreement with this teaching.

Hebrews 11:3 is not the verse to try to support God's faith with. This verse is NOT directly refering to God's faith (nor is v4, v5, v7, v8, v11, v17, v20, v21, v22, v23, v24, v27, v30, v31, and not even v39, which all but 39 follow the same grammatical pattern).
Hebrews 11:3
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
English grammar is quite clear here.
Hebrews 11:3 (SBL Greek NT)
3 πίστει νοοῦμεν κατηρτίσθαι τοὺς αἰῶνας ῥήματι θεοῦ
And the Greek grammar is quite clear here as well. Literally the first two words here say: "by/through faith we are understanding..."

Sorry Dan, scripture clearly tells us that this we understand only through faith -- our faith helps us to understand [that God framed the worlds by the Word of God].

We can debate meaning of the verses here, for I'm sure some of the more orthodox believers will have a slightly different take on "God's faith," but this verse does not directly speak of it. (I am not saying God does not have faith: He does. I am not saying that God's faith did not create our world: it did.)

What I am saying is that this verse clearly says some things. And to move in any other direction is to change the Word of God.


I have no problem that Cope skipped over words (and yes, he did use the ellipses to show this). But Cope did indeed move on to teach something (albeit truth in teaching) that THIS VERSE simply does not say. His teaching IS CORRECT, but his method to get to the point by using this verse is faulty.


It is clear here that Cope quotes Hebrews 11:3, then makes reference to "just how important and powerful faith actually is. The whole physical universe is made from it."

*Sigh* This is a true statement from him. God's faith was powerfully important in making the universe. But verse 3 of Hebrews does not say this!

It says that by faith we understand this. Verse 4 says that by faith Abel offered to God.... Verse 5 says that by faith Enoch was taken away (we can argue here: Enoch's faith was perfect enough that God took him away). Verse 7 says that by faith Noah...moved with Godly fear, [and] prepared an ark... Verse 8 says that by faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out... Verse 11 says that by faith Sarah herself received strength to conceive seed... And on and on the PATTERN of the usage of the term "by faith" over and over means the faith of the person involved.

And verse 3 is no different. It is by faith that we understand this powerful event: God framed this universe by the Word of God.

---

Dan, this is not a discussion about "what faith is." This is a discussion about the use of the Word to support a statement (as true as the statement may be). In the quoted verse above from Kenneth Copeland, take away the phrase "through faith" in the first line and the paragraph does not lose ANY of the intended meaning. Leaving the phrase in makes it look like the verse is saying that the faith spoken of there, in this verse, is the faith that God used. It isn't. God used God's faith. This faith mentions is the faith through which we understand.
 
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dkbwarrior

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I disagree completely, as I do think that the verse supports the interpretation that I gave above, and which Kenneth Copeland gave it. Good men disagree on the meaning of scripture all the time. We can disagree on this. I am not going to make my whole argument again. You simply need to read it; slowly and with an open heart and mind. The biggest proof of what I am saying is the last argument in my post. The second half of the verse, that says "...so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear", tell us that he is still talking about faith here, not the Word. He has already defined for us the subject of the chapter, and what this invisible substance is in verse 1. This chapter is not about the Word of God, it is about faith. Faith is the subject. The invisible things that created the world being referenced here are faith, not Words. Kenneth Copeland interpreted this verse 100% correct, IMHO.

The only reason this is an issue at all, is because we don't have a firm foundational understanding of what Faith is. For instance, this type of sentence structure is already used in english. If I were to replace the words with others, you would see the point clearly. For example : "Through education and environment we understand that children can excel in life." Is this sentence telling us that it is education and environment that help us to understand that children can excel? Not at all. We all know that some children excel. Education and environment do not help us to understand that. We understand intuitively that education and environment contribute greatly to a childs opportunity for excellence. So why is it so hard to see the same thing in the Hebrews 11:3 passage? Only because we DON"T understand Faith well enough, nor do we have an unassailable knowledge of it. We haven't fully renewed our minds to the fact that it is Faith that is the invisible substance by which God created the worlds, (even though he just spelled it out for us in Hebrews 1:1), nor that Faith doesn't bring understanding, rather, it is just the opposite, as it is revelation/understanding which brings Faith. If we did know this, AND have our minds fully renewed to it, then the sentence would be a no-brainer for us. We would automatically read the sentence in the same way that we automatically read the example sentence I gave above. You see my point? It is our preconceptions about the subject matter that directly impact how we read the sentence. If you change your presuppositions, you automatically change the interpretation of the sentence.

Peace...
 
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CindyisHis

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Punctuation is what makes the difference, which was inserted by translators. Here's two ways of reading this.

By faith we understand [that the] the worlds..... I added the [that the] thus meaning we have the ability to understand.

By faith, we understand, the worlds.....

Just simplifying what two good teachers are discussing. I had to refrain from saying 'splitting hairs' because I do think it is important. As with all scripture, there is so much to glean from every little thing.

The new question arsing is, by faith do we get understanding, or is it by understanding we get faith? I choose the first. I am certain that to every man is dealt a measure of faith (Rom. 12), and by faith we receive all things. However, even the second could be true, for this is certainly true - the Lord opens the eyes of our understanding by the spirit of wisdom and revelation. (Eph. 1)
 
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dkbwarrior

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If it is through faith that we understand things, then one would have to provide scripture that shows this in the greater context of the Bible. Where does the Bible tell us that faith helps us to understand?

I can provide alot of scripture that shows that it is understanding/revelation of Gods will that gives us faith. In fact, this is the cornerstone of the WOF teaching. As Kenneth Hagin used to say, "Faith begins where the will of God is known". The famous verse from Pauls writings says the same thing:

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
-Romans 10:17

Why does he say hearing twice in this verse? Because it is a play on Jesus statement to the Jews:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
-Mark 4:12

Which in turn was a quote from the prophet Isaiah:

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
-Isaiah 6:9

Which was a play on the Torah itself:

4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
-Deuteronomy 29:4

Which was also quoted by Paul to the unbelieving Jews in Rome:

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
-Acts 28:26-27

The hearing that produces faith is twofold. It is hearing it with your ears, and hearing it with your understanding. You can hear it with your ears, but if the Spirit doesn't give you understanding or revelation of it, it does not produce faith, and you cannot believe. It is through this process of revelation that God deposits faith in our hearts.

It is not Faith that deposits understanding in our hearts. That is getting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

I can think of no scripture that tells me that faith produces understanding. None at all. That is not to say that one cannot use ones faith to believe for MORE understanding, as James tells us, praying and believing God for wisdom is something that we can all do. As Paul also prayed for the Ephesians, that '...the eyes of your understanding be enlightened...'. But the writer here in Hebrews is not saying that through faith we can believe God for the understanding/revelation that God created the worlds by the Word of God. In fact, the Word of God is not even the subject here. Faith is the subject:

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
the invisible substance of faith is the subject of this passage of scripture
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
by the invisible substance of faith the elders obtained a good report
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
it is through the invisible substance of faith that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, this is what we understand, it is the vevelation that we have been given
so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
so that the physical creation was not made of visible things, but of this invisible substance of faith
-Hebrews 11:1-3

Here is the problem with reading it the other way:

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
the invisible substance of faith is the subject of this passage of scripture
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
by the invisible substance of faith the elders obtained a good report
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
it is through the invisible substance of faith that we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God,
so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
so that the physical creation was not made of visible things, but by the invisible Word of God
-Hebrews 11:1-3

If you read it this way, you are attaching the prase 'we understanding that' to the invisible substance of faith, therefore changing the definition of 'invisible things' in the second half of the verse and applying it to a new subject, the Word of God, which then becomes the subject of the second half of the sentence, instead of to what has already been defined for us as the invisible things - ie, Faith. This may be supportable if the writer then went on to talk about the Word of God, but he deos not. He continues to talk about Faith:

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
-Hebrews 11:4-6

You can't change the subject in the middle of the sentence, then change it back again. It is bad grammer, and butchers the passage, IMHO. Moreover, the concept that faith helps us to understand is by itself, unsupported by the greater context of scripture. Remember, it is the revelation of the will of God that produces Faith. Faith begins where the will of God is known. It is not Faith that produces knowledge of the will of God. That is backwards. Revelation of the will of God comes not from faith, but from sincere seeking:

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
-Deuteronomy 4:29

17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
-Proverbs 8:17

13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
-Jeremiah 29:13

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
-Matthew 7:7-8

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
-John 14:21-26

This is why the greatest commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and all thy mind, and with all thy strength. If we seek Him in His Word relentlessly, we will receive revelation and understanding that deposits faith in our hearts. That is the key. Faith comes by way of revelation given by the Holy Spirit in response to our seeking Him. It is understanding that brings Faith, not Faith that brings understanding.

Peace...
 
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CindyisHis

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You're right on, Dan. I'm persuaded. I suppose I based my thought on the fact that there are many many times I was the Lord for understanding and wisdom in things pertaining to life and godliness, and I know He hears because I am asking according to His will. And I receive. He gives me the answer to what I ask. This you covered when you talked about the scripture in James 1, which I use a lot in prayer.
 
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