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I have a few questions - open to all

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JesuSlavex

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Ok, here are some questions that have been presented to me in the past few days. I'd DO request that NON CHRISTIANS participate in this as well as CHRISTIANS. IF posts are deleted due to other non christians throwing out an opinion then your better off just deleting the thread.

Why is it that we have been created by an all knowing, all powerful father that we have been given free will? When we do well in they eyes of God, he takes credit for those works, but when we fail or do poorly, we are condemed and blamed?
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Why did God sacrifice himself to himself in order to allow hinself to change and rule that he, himself, created?
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ebia

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Sorry, but that is against the forum rules and the purposes of Exploring Christianity. If you want a discussion that involves Christians and non-Christians you will need to take it somewhere else.

Why is it that we have been created by an all knowing, all powerful father that we have been given free will? When we do well in they eyes of God, he takes credit for those works, but when we fail or do poorly, we are condemed and blamed?
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That's not a biblical picture - though it is a common distortion among some Christians.

Why did God sacrifice himself to himself in order to allow hinself to change and rule that he, himself, created?
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Sacrifice is one of the biblical models for understanding the death and resurrection of Jesus, but in a world that doesn't do sacrifice its generally not the best one to start with. Jesus at Calvary took the whole consequence for sin upon himself, let all the evil in the world do it's worst to him, and came out the other side. By doing that the power of evil is broken.

How does this work? Love him AND fear him, but there is no love in fear.
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"Fear of the Lord", in the Old Testament, becomes a phrase that operates as a noun in its own right meaning something like appropriate response in the face of God leading to wisdom. You can't reduce the phrase to the meanings of the individual words.
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot.

This directly contradicts the 10 commandments
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That depends on how you read it.

The idea of suffering eternally isn't biblical, but that aside assuming that some never do come to terms with the Kingdom of God exactly how God will comfort and reconcile us to their choice isn't clear. But for the world to be put right those who refuse to be part of that must, ultimately, be excluded -or exclude themselves depending how you look at it - if their minds cannot be changed. They cannot hold all creation to ransom - play "dog-in-the-manger" - forever.

Mark originally ended at 16:8 - the rest of Mark 16 is a later and very strange addition.


I don't live in that part of the story, so the question will never arise. Jesus' sacrifice has made all others obsolete.
Genesis 1-11 is the bible's prologue. It tells in narrative terms what God's vision for creation was/is (Genesis 1-2), what went wrong (Genesis 3) and what the consequences of that are (4-5). Then we have the story of Noah (6-9). Children's versions tend to finish with the rainbow, but that misses the major point - before we get to the chapter end Noah has got drunk and it has all gone horribly wrong all over again. Then, after some other linking material we get to the story proper which begins with the call of Abraham in chapter 12. The Noah story, then, is the explanation in narrative form of why God cannot simply wipe out evil by force - the proper and necessary prolog to the story of how God will deal with evil by working in and through the family of Abraham coming to a climax in Jesus of Narareth and continuing in us.
 
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Nilla

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JesuSlavex said:
Why is it that we have been created by an all knowing, all powerful father that we have been given free will? When we do well in they eyes of God, he takes credit for those works, but when we fail or do poorly, we are condemed and blamed?
​
Click to expand...

God doesn't reap what He doesn't sow. That is the viewpoint of the man with one talent, "I know you are a hard master reaping what you did not sow", to which God replies shrewdly, "Oh, you do, do you, well then..."

God responds to trust.

Just like we do.

I hate to interject, but... one of the reasons I like formulaic "24", is because of the fluid, difficult moral lines Bauer has to go... always saying, "trust me", but usually so hard to do so.

(I am not saying you have one talent. I have no idea.)


JesuSlavex said:
Why did God sacrifice himself to himself in order to allow hinself to change and rule that he, himself, created?
​
Click to expand...

No, no no... a lot of people paint Jesus as a tyrant or Pharisee. That is not Jesus. It is about a happy family. In a happy family, a father lets one be as they are.

Hard to see, I know... why did God make it hard to see. Maybe something to do with trust... and where trust comes from?

Trust, faith, confidence... we have a lot of words that revolve around these subjects. Jesus teaches we can do anything if we believe. "Believe" and "belief"... more terms I left out there.

Something about becoming children of God and the relationship between love and trust, perhaps?

I am just throwing stuff out there.




Crazy dichotomy, to fear God and not fear God, to love God and have no fear of God.

As a computer security expert I could go and do some really bad things. I don't because I think God would have my plans fall apart if I did so. Not that it would be necessarily really bad: like draining the accounts of an organized criminal organization to run one's own projects.

Granted, I don't really want to do that, so my fear is more theoretical.

Kind of a paradox. We are all pretty smart, smarter then we may think sometimes. But we are not masters of every field. Usually. So, someone who is more educated and practiced then us in something can out think us. That may appear, then, as a paradox. But, it isn't to them. They just know what they are doing.





Maybe it is a love/hate thing?

Regardless, we are asked to "honor our mother and father"... which means to weigh what they have to say. It might be weighty, it might not be. Our real Father, God, doesn't tend to often tell us what to do. He might give us suggestions. He might let us figure things out on our own.

We are not meant to be robots.

Likewise, context is important when looking at statements, and we do not live by any Law which is static, but a fluid, dynamic Law which is Living.




I think you are second guessing what Hell is. We don't really know and there will not always be a Hell.

Just because there is a lot of Christian mythology doesn't make it meaningful.

We do a lot of things which actually are bad for us and do not lead to joy. If that is burned away and replaced with the real things that do give us joy, are we different people?

What usually isn't loudly broadcast is that when people repent (change), God relents. For instance, this is seen in the Jonah story. I hesitate to say anything is written in stone... or as the silly Led Zeppelin song goes, 'never too late to change the road you are on'.

That last line is actually really deep.

I have little kids. When they do wrong they usually are in a lot of pain. That is, it is not fun to be on the floor screaming and yelling because they have to brush their teeth. I suppose that is a type of hell which seems very eternal at the moment. I don't have to spank them usually, they are already in an unhappy place. Eventually they may figure it out.



That seems like an awful literal interpretation of that...

Doesn't it?

God is very metaphoric. Look around.

All of creation and the Heavens and earth are but as metaphors, backdrops, for the story we are in. Whatever our stories are.

There's metaphor for you. Creation is one big book, and we are the characters. Or, as Shakespeare said, 'all the world's a stage, and we are the players...'

More fully: '
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
'

Shakespeare - All the world's a stage





Abraham believed God could raise him up again even if he did this thing.

Same thing with Jesus.

If you walked a tightrope knowing you can not fall... I hate to compare it to that, because such a thing would be extremely difficult to do.

You can remove the context, but that makes it something else entirely.

It is very difficult to understand: but so is anything amazing. How do they do it? They have knowledge the observer does not have.

It is not a test: a test is when you try and do something and not really sure about it.




I think you are trying to make judgment calls on someone who is doing something you can't understand, assuming they are your equal and you can understand what they are doing.


I can explain it, but I would have to ask you remove the judgmentalness about your stance first.


I think there is a lot going on there.


A bit like a pot - take this easily - saying to the Potter, 'what are you making' or 'no, stop that, I don't want to be blue, I want to be red'.


It can be very hard to imagine someone else as being smarter or wiser then our own self. But, if you don't, you are going to run into a lot of problems in life.


For one, you will be underestimating them.


A great tactic is to get your opponent to underestimate you.


Trick is to see God is not your opponent.


And underestimating Him doesn't hurt Him, but does hurt you.
 
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Senix

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Only when it is taken out of context. Jesus was using this as an example to ellaborate the point that he was trying to make, like many points of Scripture, it is clearly not meant to be taken literally. I've got to go now, so I'll come back to this later if I have the time.
 
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Senix

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As promised, to explain what Luke 14:26 means: the use of the word "hate" does not refer to emotional dislike of the family members nor of one's own life, but instead is used to make the point that the Christian life requires a total rejection of anything and anyone who would block our absolute commitment to Jesus as Lord. Jesus uses this as an extreme example as our relationship with our family is generally one of our most powerful relationships.

We should read the verse not only logically and in context, but also consider parallel records, such as Matthew 10:37-39, which says "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
 
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Senix

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I was not in his position and neither do I have the faith that Abraham had. Furthermore, this was a test specific to Abraham and God would never ask it of anyone today. Let me explain why this is the case: it was a test of Abraham's faith and whether he truly believed God's promise for him and believed in His faithfulness to be true to His word. Think about it: all of Isaac's life was a miracle. Firstly, he was born to aging parents after God's promise, secondly God promised that Abraham would have many descendants through Isaac and that He would bless them forever, and thirdly, God spared him from the sacrifice. I believe that the reason Abraham is called the man of faith is that a: he knew the Lord would provide (as evidenced by the name of the place that he gave it), and/or b: that God would raise his son again because of what He had promised. This is not something that God would ask of anyone else and it is foolish to suggest that He would.

We can't understand the ways in which God acts, but we can count on Him to provide for us if we faithfully obey Him, and this is what Abraham did.

But to answer your question, God wouldn't ask it of us and I don't have kids so it's a non-issue.

Evidently all of mankind (save Noah and his family) reached a point of depravity that we have never seen in our history since then. The Bible records three times just how bad mankind was and how far we'd fallen, and in Hebrew, when you state something multiple times it is an emphasising technique. The Bible clearly states that the punishment for sin is death, and those people willing sinned and probably enjoyed their lifestyle, and so God as ultimate judge had every right to wipe them from existence. It says a lot about Him that you and I are alive today ... his mercy and love is stronger than His desire for justice. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be here.

As for what you call "addressing the inherent flaws in man," what would you propose? What is the "flaw" of mankind? Sin? Maybe so, but to eradicate sin from this creation would require the death of every person on the planet. More than that, it would require that God removes our freewill - the choice that He gave mankind in the Garden of Eden that ultimately got us into this mess. Even with the consequences of sin, I for one would not want to lose my freedom to chose. He does not force Himself upon people who want nothing to do with Him, to do so would not be right.

So that we might not be lost in sin, God instituted death as a way through which He might redeem man back to Himself through Christ. For those who want to be reconciled through God through Christ, He will perfect and remove the sinfulness from us. For those who want nothing to do with Him, He will give them exactly what they ask: eternal life without Him - life without the life-giving source is death.

As for the point about Mark 16:15-18, it should be noted that "the most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20" so it is foolish to base your argument on it. The original ending of Mark remains uncertain.

Added onto that, we are warned against testing God in such ways.
 
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drich0150

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Why is it that we have been created by an all knowing, all powerful father that we have been given free will?
Click to expand...

So that we in this life may have a true choice to either live out eternity with God or by ourselves.

When we do well in they eyes of God, he takes credit for those works, but when we fail or do poorly, we are condemned and blamed?
Click to expand...

I don't know of an instance that any of this is true. Real Christianity is not a performance based religion.
​
Why did God sacrifice himself to himself in order to allow hinself to change and rule that he, himself, created?
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He didn't change anything. The blood of the innocent has had to pay for sin, since Adam and Eve first sinned. (They covered themselves with fig leaves, and God had them covered with the skin of a slain animal.) Why? Because simply put the wages of sin is death. If you (Being sinful) are to live something else must die. If you are to live eternally then something eternal must die for you.
​

Love can be divided into three different groups or types of love. 1)The type of love man has for a woman, 2) the type of love one has for family and friends, and 3)the type of love One is suppose to show for God. It is obvious the love being required here is the type of love one is supposed to show for God, and in that love, contains fear or better stated, a very healthy respect for God.
​

This would be a problem if we were old testament Jews, but as it is now we are not bound by the law to obtain righteousness before the Lord. Our righteousness is found through our relationship with Jesus. In order to have said relationship, we are to love the Lord more than we love our families.


When you were in kindergarten, I'm sure you have a Toy, friend or Dog/pet that meant the world to you (Even if you can't remember) So my question is, do you still have this toy, Dog or friend in your life? Is your current happiness affected because of it? Why?

It's probably due to the fact that you grew up, and your mind was open in a way that you at 5 or 6 could not comprehend. In essences you world Got larger than your one playmate, and even if you have retained this relationship all of these years, does your world revolve around this person, pet or thing like it did when you were young?

When we go before the throne we will also be transformed in a way that will allow us to "grow up" from what we now experience in this life. You will still love your mother, but when your capacity for love has been expanded to what it can be, then our limits or emotions that we currently experience in this life will also be expanded. Much like what you have experienced from the time you were 5 or 6 to where you are now.
​

Because these "gifts" were offered to the very first sets of Christians. and not to all of those who follow.
​

Thankfully we will never be asked. Because God sacrificed His Son for us.


Actually it wasn't just man that was populating the Earth. There were a man/angel hybrid. (4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.) And their wickedness was exceedingly great. (In their actions, and how they turned "man" against God.)

If God felt it necessary to wipe the earth clean so that a few righteous could repopulate, then know it was completely necessary for the survival of all of those who followed.

I would ask, what does it say about the character of a person who would stand in Judgment of God who doesn't even concern Himself of the facts of the story?
​
 
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Van

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Hi Jesuslavex, you seem to have rounded up the usual suspects.

Other folks seem to have dresses your questions in the usual manner, so I want to discuss the tag line of your post. "The Bible is 100% factual... I read that somewhere in the Bible." I think you made that up, can you provide a reference. It seems to me the Bible uses lots of illustrations, parables and metaphors that are intended to teach a spiritual truth. For example the Bible sometimes uses love and hate to illustrate a vast difference between two levels of love, so much that it is as if you love one and hate the other.

May God Bless
 
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