I hate you - don't leave me

[Krissy Cakes]

Ugh I see myself saying that ALL the time!

Is it just me or is there others out there too?

Well there is a book called I Hate You--Don't Leave Me: Understanding the Borderline Personality





Have you or your loved ones read it?

My father - in - law got it for my mother - law and I think she understands me better. Well thats what I hope.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

 

[turkle]

I have been on the receiving end of that statement. My mother was classic borderline.

I wish I could express how much that damaged me. I am over 50 years old, and I am still dealing with the anguish she instilled in me.

She was very capable of controlling herself when she wanted to. But I, as the person closest to her, became the focus of everything in her life. She clung to me until I was strangled, and all I wanted was to escape from her. And I did escape from her by moving literally halfway around the world as soon as I was old enough to do so.

You might not want to hear from me here in this forum, and I accept that. But I am here to tell you that living with a borderline mother nearly did me in. I am happy to say that though I still deal with the fallout, the buck stopped with me. By God's grace, I did not pass the horror of it down in my own parenting, and my children are very happy and well adjusted. Even as a child, my son saw how unreasonable and cruel my mother was.

I am sad to say that when she died 10 years ago, only 3 people came to her service, including me. Not one person shed a tear, including me. I have never cried over her loss. I am relieved that she no longer tortures me with her neediness.

My mother had no business becoming a parent. She couldn't even take care of herself. She drove my father away, and as soon as I was old enough, I had to get away too. I am fortunate that God strengthened me through the years, and though I carry very deep scars, I am ok. I have an amazing marriage. My children and I are very close. My deepest sadness is that I never had a mother. I was the mother, and she was the child from the time I was 7 years old. It just shouldn't be that way.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

Did she get help? If she didn't. Why not?

I'm sorry she hurt you so bad but its not her fault. Please don't blame her. She had a mental disorder that she probably got from some kind of abuse. I don't know.

I'm a sad for your mother that only 3 people can to her funeral. If I knew about her death I would have went and cried for her.

I would like to ask you a serious question. Do you think people who have BPD shouldn't be parents? Cause I LOVE kids and want kids some day.

 

[bhsmte]

Did she get help? If she didn't. Why not?

I'm sorry she hurt you so bad but its not her fault. Please don't blame her. She had a mental disorder that she probably got from some kind of abuse. I don't know.

I'm a sad for your mother that only 3 people can to her funeral. If I knew about her death I would have went and cried for her.

I would like to ask you a serious question. Do you think people who have BPD shouldn't be parents? Cause I LOVE kids and want kids some day.

One of the traits of people with BPD, is many do not seek help, because their defense mechanisms have developed to such a high degree, it is next to impossible to admit they need help.

Also, some who do see a therapist, eventually leave the therapist when they start to address issues they do not want to face.

Because of the above, BPD is one of the most difficult disorders to treat.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

One of the traits of people with BPD, is many do not seek help, because their defense mechanisms have developed to such a high degree, it is next to impossible to admit they need help.

Also, some who do see a therapist, eventually leave the therapist when they start to address issues they do not want to face.

Because of the above, BPD is one of the most difficult disorders to treat.

Okay and thank you for answering my questions.

I have two for you. (if thats okay) You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Do you have BPD? Or do you know of someone who has BPD?

 

[turkle]

Did she get help? If she didn't. Why not?

I'm sorry she hurt you so bad but its not her fault. Please don't blame her. She had a mental disorder that she probably got from some kind of abuse. I don't know.

I'm a sad for your mother that only 3 people can to her funeral. If I knew about her death I would have went and cried for her.

I would like to ask you a serious question. Do you think people who have BPD shouldn't be parents? Cause I LOVE kids and want kids some day.

No, she didn't get help because in her mind, she was just fine and her problems were everyone else's fault. Especially mine.

I appreciate your sadness, but I disagree that it's not her fault. She had an extraordinary ability to control herself when it suited her purposes. I saw quite a few moments when she actually chose to be kind. She could turn on the charm when she chose to. She worked hard at maneuvering people to serve her. She simply chose herself and her own feelings above the feelings of others. Unless it served her to be compassionate. Then suddenly, she was compassionate. They were all choices, and every choice led her down a path of higher levels of narcissism. I watched it happen in front of my eyes. She nurtured her selfishness to such a degree that it grew like weeds, choking out almost all of the good that she started out with.

I cannot answer your question about whether BPD should or should not be parents. But as a parent, I will tell you this. If you don't have the ability to set aside your own feelings for the sake of what is in the best interest of a child, then don't be a parent. It doesn't matter how much you love kids. What does matter is that as a parent, that child's needs always come first. The focus is not how much you love kids, but how much you can serve them and raise them in a spiritually, emotionally and physically healthy way. One thing that should never, ever be said to a child is I hate you don't leave me. Or anything similar to it. Sadly, I hear parents talk like that to their kids all the time.

Everybody loves kids until they try your patience to the very end. And they do that all the time. It's important to be emotionally healthy enough yourself to be able to handle it with patience and calm. And we've all heard about parents who can't handle it. It is a very, very difficult job to do, as well as the most rewarding. But to parent well, it is critical that you can control your own emotions no matter how you feel.

Since you are a newlywed, I think you can gauge this by how you treat your husband. Do you put his needs before your own? Are you always kind and loving to him regardless of your mood? Are you encouraging to him? Do you cheer him on? Do you look for ways to bless him without expecting anything in return? Are you warm, loving and passionate with him? If so, then you will probably be a great mom. But if you are moody, self absorbed, self pitying and needy as my mother was, then I would encourage you to work hard in therapy to reprogram your response. Most importantly, ask the Lord for healing, guidance and wisdom (LOTS of wisdom!). I have seen folks with BPD change their behavior with lots and lots of work. I have also seen my mother, who started out with a mild case, continue to spiral downward into complete and out of control self absorption because she refused to acknowledge that her behavior was unacceptable. And by the way, if you knew her, you probably would not have shown up at her funeral, nor cried there, because she would have hurt you so horribly that you would never want to see her again. That's how she rolled. I pray that you will work very, very hard to avoid that.

Again, all of this comes from my experience. When I was in my early 20s, I started noticing that my behavior was becoming very self centered. I realized that I was starting down the same path as my mother. I made a choice early on to go in a different direction. It was a lot of work, but despite having a very difficult life, I have chosen emotional health. It didn't come naturally, and I had to learn a lot of skills. God was gracious with me, so I was able to parent well, and my marriage is fantastic. The joy of the Lord is certainly my strength, and self pity has no place in my life. But it was, and continues to be, a lot of work. And every bit of it was worth it.

 

[bhsmte]

Okay and thank you for answering my questions.

I have two for you. (if thats okay) You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Do you have BPD? Or do you know of someone who has BPD?

I know someone who has BPD (a family member).

 

[Ruthie24]

My heart really goes out to people who suffer from BPD. It is really difficult for them and their families to deal with this condition. In my profession, I think it's one of the most difficult illnesses to deal with because we just don't have enough funding to work with clients who have Axis II Diagnoses. I honestly wish people would wake up in our legislature and realize people with BPD really need help. We have so much funding for clients with Axis I but not Axis II and to me we need equal amounts for both.

 

[bhsmte]

Okay and thank you for answering my questions.

I have two for you. (if thats okay) You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Do you have BPD? Or do you know of someone who has BPD?

I know someone who has BPD.

Sorry, just noticed I answered this already.

 

[bhsmte]

My heart really goes out to people who suffer from BPD. It is really difficult for them and their families to deal with this condition. In my profession, I think it's one of the most difficult illnesses to deal with because we just don't have enough funding to work with clients who have Axis II Diagnoses. I honestly wish people would wake up in our legislature and realize people with BPD really need help. We have so much funding for clients with Axis I but not Axis II and to me we need equal amounts for both.

In general, there is a lack of properly qualified therapists with expertise in treating (and even properly diagnosing BPD), what I have seen in my experience and in talking with therapists, is another major issue is typical lack of willingness of the average person with BPD willing to be treated, or even acknowledge they have a problem.

Many folks with BPD, either flip from therapist to therapist, trying to find the one they can dupe into thinking they are ok, or they refuse treatment all together.

 

[Ruthie24]

In general, there is a lack of properly qualified therapists with expertise in treating (and even properly diagnosing BPD), what I have seen in my experience and in talking with therapists, is another major issue is typical lack of willingness of the average person with BPD willing to be treated, or even acknowledge they have a problem.

Many folks with BPD, either flip from therapist to therapist, trying to find the one they can dupe into thinking they are ok, or they refuse treatment all together.

I think we need more funding, better diagnostic training, and make dbt as a mandatory protocol for all therapists who work with the SMI population.

Every client is on a continuum and you can determine that using motivational interviewing. It's really important to use boundaries and have your clinical team on the same page so the client is not therapist shopping unless there is a incident of harm being done. Plus if the client isn't ready or willing to make changes no level of therapy is going to work except maybe the initial stage of motivational interviewing and what the pros and con's are of changing negative behaviors. It's really up to the client but a good therapeutic rapport really helps to set the stage. I've seen client's recover with BPD so I try not to use any generalizations when it comes to treatment success. It is a difficult population to work with but not impossible.

 

[bhsmte]

I think we need more funding, better diagnostic training, and make dbt as a mandatory protocol for all therapists who work with the SMI population.

Every client is on a continuum and you can determine that using motivational interviewing. It's really important to use boundaries and have your clinical team on the same page so the client is not therapist shopping unless there is a incident of harm being done. Plus if the client isn't ready or willing to make changes no level of therapy is going to work except maybe the initial stage of motivational interviewing and what the pros and con's are of changing negative behaviors. It's really up to the client but a good therapeutic rapport really helps to set the stage. I've seen client's recover with BPD so I try not to use any generalizations when it comes to treatment success. It is a difficult population to work with but not impossible.

Yes, some people with BPD do recover and those are the one's willing to admit they have a problem and they need outside help.

The problem with BPD, is these folks have built up such strong defense mechanisms, that to many, acknowledging they have a problem and to take accountability for their actions, is like torture to them and they instead, they engage their defense mechanisms to protect their psyche.

The other problem is this; many who suffer from BPD are rather high functioning, in the right environment and they can easily fool people that they are not only ok, but seem to be very stable. These folks can literally be completely different people with those they are not close to, vs people they are very close to.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Did you read the book?

 

[bhsmte]

Did you read the book?

Walking on egg shells and splitting are two other good books.

 

[Ruthie24]

Yes, some people with BPD do recover and those are the one's willing to admit they have a problem and they need outside help.

The problem with BPD, is these folks have built up such strong defense mechanisms, that to many, acknowledging they have a problem and to take accountability for their actions, is like torture to them and they instead, they engage their defense mechanisms to protect their psyche.

The other problem is this; many who suffer from BPD are rather high functioning, in the right environment and they can easily fool people that they are not only ok, but seem to be very stable. These folks can literally be completely different people with those they are not close to, vs people they are very close to

I have never seen or read about this feature on a clinical level with BPD either in bio psycho socials or from family members. Both high and low functioning bpds have to have one major diagnostic criteria in the DSM iv/v and that's the inability to regulate their moods. This has to occur in any situation. If they are being manipulative in their mood regulation with the ability to switch off or on moods at will that's highly suggestive of some other type of PD like aspd or nspd but even those have to fit DSM criteria. You can't have them be able to regulate their mood fluctuations at will like that or it's not BPD. The whole idea of BPD is inability to regulate.

 

[bhsmte]

I have never seen or read about this feature on a clinical level with BPD either in bio psycho socials or from family members. Both high and low functioning bpds have to have one major diagnostic criteria in the DSM iv/v and that's the inability to regulate their moods. This has to occur in any situation. If they are being manipulative in their mood regulation with the ability to switch off or on moods at will that's highly suggestive of some other type of PD like aspd or nspd but even those have to fit DSM criteria. You can't have them be able to regulate their mood fluctuations at will like that or it's not BPD. The whole idea of BPD is inability to regulate.

Not all who suffer from BPD can be rolled into one basket and their are individual differences in their ability to regulate in certain situations.

One highly reliable way to get anyone who suffers from BPD to show their inability to regulate; disagree with them on a topic important to them and or hold them accountable for their behavior in a straight forward fashion.

The other thing is this, many psychologists believe those who suffer from BPD, have a blend of behaviors from the other personality disorder traits, such as; NPD and PPD, which tend to come out in some fashion with those who suffer from BPD. How and when they come out, is unique to each person.

 

[Ruthie24]

Not all who suffer from BPD can be rolled into one basket and their are individual differences in their ability to regulate in certain situations.

One highly reliable way to get anyone who suffers from BPD to show their inability to regulate; disagree with them on a topic important to them and or hold them accountable for their behavior in a straight forward fashion.

The other thing is this, many psychologists believe those who suffer from BPD, have a blend of behaviors from the other personality disorder traits, such as; NPD and PPD, which tend to come out in some fashion with those who suffer from BPD. How and when they come out, is unique to each person.

Um, I utilize the DSM IV whenever I assess or DX anyone with any kind of mental health condition and I never stray from that in any type of clinical setting. I also use controlled studies. I never waiver from these two ever when treating clients with any type of mental health condition especially any type of PD's. To do so is extremely unethical and harmful to clients. Also your way of determining whether someone has a pd by how they respond to a topic is NOT assessment criteria in the DSM iv. If someone has traits of other PD's that do not fit into one criteria it's called PD NOS. For paranoid personality disorder PPD they must fit into that criteria under the DSM IV/V You cannot DX someone or even assess someone without following the DSM iv/v or you are doing harm. To make some kind of assessment from how they respond to a topic is a value judgment on your part and not sound clinical assessment and extremely unprofessional.

 

[bhsmte]

Um, I utilize the DSM IV whenever I assess or DX anyone with any kind of mental health condition and I never stray from that in any type of clinical setting. I also use controlled studies. I never waiver from these two ever when treating clients with any type of mental health condition especially any type of PD's. To do so is extremely unethical and harmful to clients. Also your way of determining whether someone has a pd by how they respond to a topic is NOT assessment criteria in the DSM iv. If someone has traits of other PD's that do not fit into one criteria it's called PD NOS. For paranoid personality disorder PPD they must fit into that criteria under the DSM IV/V You cannot DX someone or even assess someone without following the DSM iv/v or you are doing harm. To make some kind of assessment from how they respond to a topic is a value judgment on your part and not sound clinical assessment and extremely unprofessional.

I never said you don't use the DSM IV to diagnose, I simply said everyone does not fit into a tidy little package.

 

[Ruthie24]

I never said you don't use the DSM IV to diagnose, I simply said everyone does not fit into a tidy little package.

This has nothing to do with me. What I'm saying to you is you cannot DX someone with any type of mental health condition without using the DSM IV/V. You cannot make DX off of some type of topical response you throw out. No, people do not fit into tidy little boxes but each DX has parameters and specific criteria even PD NOS. You cannot make value judgments about someone's mh by some topic you present and judging their response of it and then saying they have any type of PD. That is unethical and unprofessional and extremely stereotypical to clients. There are already enough problems with stereotyping the mentally ill and then to make that kind of value judgment just further establishes that people continue to not follow any type of scientific criteria when DX people with mental illnesses.