I hate this.

[Lisa0315]

Not looking to debate here but could explain what you mean by that?

Are you sayingf that its not wise to debate? That those debates are not accepted or what? Hmmmm

No, I am saying that there are many arguments about homosexuality that no matter how much Scripture is thrown out, and believe me, I know them all...they can twist that Scripture to mean something else. The only Scriptures that cannot be twisted to their immoral satisfaction are the ones that state that marriage is essential to sexual relations. They cannot get around that one.

I have finally stopped debating the whole gay argument simply because I am so susceptible to the sincere hurting ones. I speak the truth to them. I hear about their suicide attempts, and it is just difficult for me to continue. That one is just not my calling.

Don't get me started on abortion, though...You will never get me to shut up.

Lisa

 

[Tangeloper]

Its easy to get hurt when you are thie kind of person who cares about people. The only advice I can offer is to try not and take personal when someone offends you, as offensvive as what they have said may be. Once they have riled up your emotions and hurt you they have accomplished their mission, so the best thing you can do is to not allow them to get to you. I know this is ahrd, but it can be done to a point.

Good reminder Jim! I often get upset with myself for being hurt by people, but I try to remember that if I were not bothered by what other people think of me it would make me a pretty cold person and prone to being too proud! It's kind of like a necessary evil in that we open ourselves up to being hurt, but that is the only way to extend love for another human being...

 

[Lisa0315]

Good reminder Jim! I often get upset with myself for being hurt by people, but I try to remember that if I were not bothered by what other people think of me it would make me a pretty cold person and prone to being too proud! It's kind of like a necessary evil in that we open ourselves up to being hurt, but that is the only way to extend love for another human being...

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

One of the hardest things when I became a Christian was that God convicted me of my anger. Anger had become a huge shield for me. So, suddenly, I was susceptible to all kinds of hurts and had no defense. Well, eventually, God did equip me, but it was very, very hard at first.

Lisa

 

[Tangeloper]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

One of the hardest things when I became a Christian was that God convicted me of my anger. Anger had become a huge shield for me. So, suddenly, I was susceptible to all kinds of hurts and had no defense. Well, eventually, God did equip me, but it was very, very hard at first.

Lisa

I really think this is what Jesus was talking about when he mentioned turning the other cheek. I don't think he necessarily meant it PHYSICALLY, otherwise that would not jive with the stuff he said about selling your coat for a sword. Anyway, I think he meant it in the spiritual way -- where our souls would be subject to hurt over and over again if we truly lived through love for our fellow man. And, in order to stay obedient to God and Jesus' teachings to us we have to be willing to endure that hurt, and keep trying anyway because if we stop turning the other cheek of our spirit we will no longer be able to love...

Sorry if this is a little off-topic. It just occurred to me though as I read your post. Kind of like a Light Bulb Moment!

 

[Jim47]

No, I am saying that there are many arguments about homosexuality that no matter how much Scripture is thrown out, and believe me, I know them all...they can twist that Scripture to mean something else. The only Scriptures that cannot be twisted to their immoral satisfaction are the ones that state that marriage is essential to sexual relations. They cannot get around that one.

I have finally stopped debating the whole gay argument simply because I am so susceptible to the sincere hurting ones. I speak the truth to them. I hear about their suicide attempts, and it is just difficult for me to continue. That one is just not my calling.

Don't get me started on abortion, though...You will never get me to shut up.

Lisa

Yes, you are correct, but only because they don't want to listen to the truth. They love their sin too much to leave it and instead try to jusitfy it.


I don't blame you or anyone from backing away from those debates as they simply don't listen.

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Thanks, Tange. I know that it the grand scheme of things it totally doesn't matter what people think of me. I'm just not someone who's cut out for internet debate and such, because I'm too sensitive.

 

[Macrina]

...because I am so susceptible to the sincere hurting ones...

I understand what you mean. In various contexts, people have been hurt not only by their sin, but also by well-intentioned Christians who wouldn't know tact if they tripped over it. So the last thing I want to be is just one more conservative Christian who makes them feel bad about themselves or just write the faith off entirely. There are real people behind all these issues we struggle with... and communicating love while implying or even telling someone that they're mistaken is a difficult thing indeed.

 

[Rochir]

Thanks, Rochir. You know, I've actually found myself in positions where I'm catching it from both sides.

Whoever it is I disagree with -- be they conservative or liberal -- I just want to be able to communicate love towards them without having to hide my beliefs or compromise my convictions.

You try and that's what counts! God bless you!

 

[Macrina]

I am weary.

 

[Sothron]

Do not let these people, whoever they are, get to you. If you acting out of love for your fellow man, no matter the message, you are doing what Jesus asked us to do. If you were truly cruel or a bad person you would simply keep the truth to yourself and refuse to share it out of fear of persecution.

Standing up for what you believe in and sharing it with others is commendable. As I say to my real life friends or church members it is not a principle if you do not stand up for it. Bless you for standing up!

 

[monkeypsycho62]

Do you have any examples of when this has happened? I never"lash out" unless the other person says something horrible.

 

[Albion]

Do you have any examples of when this has happened? I never"lash out" unless the other person says something horrible.

Because you are a visitor asking only a question, I am happy to help you with an answer. Yes, this expression and others like it are frequently heard. They are said to us not as some kind of "lashing out" or in response to anything in particular. It is indicative of what those kinds of people think of anyone who actually believes the Bible. We are, you see, morons, hicks, and fanatics. IOW, "Bible thumpers."

 

[Macrina]

Do you have any examples of when this has happened? I never"lash out" unless the other person says something horrible.

I don't want to go telling tales, so I think it would be inappropriate for me to post comments that others have made to me. But I can tell you I have been turning myself into a pretzel in the effort to not say anything "horrible."

I am espousing a "conservative" view, yet trying to express my convictions in a way that focuses on doctrine, not individuals. I am also looking for policy compromises that will give people what they want without violating my conscience.

The recent conversations have been really hard, but it happens with some frequency. No matter how kind and accommodating you are, if you believe in your heart of hearts that something is wrong/sin/inappropriate, then someone will label you hateful and bigoted.

 

[Macrina]

Because you are a visitor asking only a question, I am happy to help you with an answer. Yes, this expression and others like it are frequently heard. They are said to us not as some kind of "lashing out" or in response to anything in particular. It is indicative of what those kinds of people think of anyone who actually believes the Bible. We are, you see, morons, hicks, and fanatics. IOW, "Bible thumpers."

I have encountered other conservatives who have said things in a rude way, but the response Albion described is one that we get whether we are rude or kind. It's as though it doesn't matter how we treat people, it only matters what we believe: If we don't believe in the "approved" thing, then we can be as nice as cotton candy but still painted as a Big Meanie.

 

[monkeypsycho62]

I have encountered other conservatives who have said things in a rude way, but the response Albion described is one that we get whether we are rude or kind. It's as though it doesn't matter how we treat people, it only matters what we believe: If we don't believe in the "approved" thing, then we can be as nice as cotton candy but still painted as a Big Meanie.

I only asked for examples because I've seen this kind of thing before, but the person saying he was being "discriminated against" actually was posting things like "The evil Jews will burn in Hell" and crap like that. The person responding said something about him being racist and bigoted, and the Christian complained.

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't like that.

 

[Macrina]

I only asked for examples because I've seen this kind of thing before, but the person saying he was being "discriminated against" actually was posting things like "The evil Jews will burn in Hell" and crap like that. The person responding said something about him being racist and bigoted, and the Christian complained.

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't like that.

It isn't.

I'm advocating a position which offends some people, but I am doing everything I can to make my manner inoffensive.

 

[Criada]

 

[monkeypsycho62]

It isn't.

I'm advocating a position which offends some people, but I am doing everything I can to make my manner inoffensive.

In that case.......good for you.

 

[DerSchweik]

Hi Macrina,

You have been a support to me, whether you know it or not; so I felt you would benefit from some scriptural support that speaks explicitly to what you are experiencing and feeling:

From the Gospel of John, Chapter 15:

18"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.
19"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
20"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master ' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
21"But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
22"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23"He who hates Me hates My Father also.
24"If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.
25"But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, 'THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'

Ignore the names (I know they hurt), ignore the labels (I know they hurt), ignore the venom (I know that hurts), ignore the hatred (I know that hurts too).

By way of inspiration, look to the cross (we all know that hurt), look to His burial and imagine the disciple's hurt, then look to His resurrection and consider the work He did for us who no longer harbor such enmity (Rom 5), as you are now experiencing, for Him.

You've helped me - I hope and pray this helps you.

God bless and may His grace and peace be upon you always. And keep up the good work, for it is worthy of the One whose opinion of us truly counts.

In Him,

 

[Macrina]

Hi Macrina,

You have been a support to me, whether you know it or not; so I felt you would benefit from some scriptural support that speaks explicitly to what you are experiencing and feeling:

From the Gospel of John, Chapter 15:
18"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.

19"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
20"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master ' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
21"But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
22"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23"He who hates Me hates My Father also.
24"If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25"But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, 'THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'

Ignore the names (I know they hurt), ignore the labels (I know they hurt), ignore the venom (I know that hurts), ignore the hatred (I know that hurts too).

By way of inspiration, look to the cross (we all know that hurt), look to His burial and imagine the disciple's hurt, then look to His resurrection and consider the work He did for us who no longer harbor such enmity (Rom 5), as you are now experiencing, for Him.

You've helped me - I hope and pray this helps you.

God bless and may His grace and peace be upon you always.

In Him,

Thank you so, so much. Really, thank you.