I had a dream. . .

[naotmaa]

Yep. This is why we don't advocate unmarried couples living together.

Is it ok for them to lust inside of a marriage?

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

Did you know the definition of fornication includes homosexuality?

[SIZE=+1]porneiva [/SIZE]Porneia (por-ni'-ah);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 4202

1. illicit sexual intercourse
   1. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
   2. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
   3. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
2. metaph. the worship of idols
   1. of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Did you know that God ordained marriage between a man and woman? It matters not whether the government allows them to marry or not, it's still against the written Word of God.

Not everyone is Christian, and not everyone believes the bible. I'm just saying.

If we restrict someone else's right to marry, then they'll begin restricting our rights as Christian.

 

[HaloHope]

If you're engaging in sexual acts outside of God's marriage covenant of man and wife with Him, then you've lusted and fornicated.

Yes you can deny it all day. Doesn't change the fact that God's Word makes it clear that if you're having sex outside of the marriage covenant of Him a man and his wife, that you are fornicating.

Then let me suggest you look again. I can back up what I've told you God says because He says it first. Telling us what YOU think may be all that you can do. But I have the very Word of God.

And your lack of receiving His truth is because of your own hardened heart. The Bible in James 1:14-15 says :14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death

Your understanding is confused...ratheryou have not received God's understanding because your own evil desires want something else. And thus is born your excuse thatall we can do is think we know what God says.

It's been shown by God that the devil is a liar. And all of his machinations to bring confusion about what God's Word says are ineffective on the ones grounded in Christ.

Yall can continue to try and complicate God's Word because it gives you your evil desires. But His Word is as simple as what it says.

Your self-admitted confusion is not of God.

Erm, what I've told you is in accordance withwhat Scripture says. What you're saying is what you WANT Scripture to say. But like you said, you can only think.

I trust God's Word.You THINK your way is right. He KNOWS His is right.

Yep. God will only go so far in allowing you a chance to receive the truth. And then He will give you over to a reprobate mind and let you have it your way since that's what you want.

And one of the reasons I am here is to oppose that lie with God's truth. And the Bible says 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 2 Peter 2:18-19

Read the whole Book.

Nice try, but it still doesn't change God's Word.

That's why I stand on His Word He speaks for Himself. You can reject what He says. But His Word is what it is.

You can debate all you like. People debate their opinions. God's Word never changes and that's why you keep hearing the same thing while you continue to add to your "argument.

Then you willfully choose to fornicate and it will be recognized as such.

I cant really be bothered to answer this bit by bit as you will just come out with more hate filled rhetoric.

So many gay people are pushed away from Christ by statements like you made above. I firmly believe God is not happy about this whatsoever, he wants all to come to him.

Fortunately my faith is as solid as a rock and your words (or text at least) arent going to have the desired affect of driving me away and if anyone who reads this is struggling with their sexuality in faith I urge them to ignore such comments too. Lately I have felt a great calling to reach out to gay people who feel they can't be Christian and have commited relationships, it's about time I tried to put this into practice offline too.

Christianity is all about love, people can speak out against that all they want, but it is all about love. Jesus is love, and as a result I believe any approach to tackling a percieved sin (regardless of whether its a sin or not) should be done in a loving way.

I'm going to step out of this thread for a day or so at least as it is making me be sarcastic and mildly annoyed (which I apologise for), and is causing others to be hateful too.

Zaac, personally I believe it is you who are going against God's word here, but it is not my place to condemn you for it, so have a good evening and peace be with you.

 

[Zaac]

I cant really be bothered to answer this bit by bit as you will just come out with more hate filled rhetoric.

Nobody has made any hate-filled rhetoric. It would be hate-filled if I didn't tell you the truth.

So many gay people are pushed away from Christ by statements like you made above. I firmly believe God is not happy about this whatsoever, he wants all to come to him.

They are pushed away by their own desires to do what they want. And because many Christians aren't accommodating to their unrepentent sin, they, like you make this untrue statement that folks have driven you away when you havae turned from the truth of your own accord.

Fortunately my faith is as solid as a rock and your words (or text at least) arent going to have the desired affect of driving me away and if anyone who reads this is struggling with their sexuality in faith I urge them to ignore such comments too. Lately I have felt a great calling to reach out to gay people who feel they can't be Christian and have commited relationships, it's about time I tried to put this into practice offline too.

And the Bible still says 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 2 Peter 2:18-19

Christianity is all about love, people can speak out against that all they want, but it is all about love. Jesus is love, and as a result I believe any approach to tackling a percieved sin (regardless of whether its a sin or not) should be done in a loving way.

Christianity is about Christ. And you can't have the love of Chist without the wrath of Christ.

And noone has said to not deliver the truth in love. You're just expecting folks to not deliver the truth because you're at odds with what God says so anything that speaks against what you want to do is "hateful".

I'm going to step out of this thread for a day or so at least as it is making me be sarcastic and mildly annoyed (which I apologise for), and is causing others to be hateful too.

Zaac, personally I believe it is you who are going against God's word here, but it is not my place to condemn you for it, so have a good evening and peace be with you.

As I have said to many others, I have no problem standing before Christ and giving an account for doing what He says to do. I rest unapologetically in His Word. Can you say the same?

 

[Miracle Storm]

Nope. I just hate to see folks thinking they are making a point while missing what the text is speaking to.

I know the context of the Scripture and used it correctly. You miss the point, not one I'm trying to make, but of THAT Scripture.

Like I said, it's best to stop referencing things if you don't understand why what you're saying is out of context with what the text says.

No it isn't as the woman was a sinner. The others coming for her wanted to stone her to death, stone by stone...Until Jesus spoke.
He who is without sin cast the first stone. They walked away. That is the message to you from Him. BACK OFF. Instead of stoning people with your words. If I met you face to face would truth be known that you are a hypocrite??

I know what I'm talking about, and said what I intended to say the FIRST time.

You speak, yet say nothing.

You said some after the fact. That's the big difference.

Where did I say "all"?
Show it.
Or was it just another one of your many premature presumptions?
Remember zaac, context is very important.

3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

How did Jesus walk? Did He walk in love? Who did He spend time with? Was it not sinners? Was Jesus mocked for spending time with, eating food with and loving those sinners?
What does God command? Law? NO no no. You miss context friend. You miss the point in having our precious Savior. If man could obey the law we would have never needed a Savior, but we couldn't and we do.
Mark 1615He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 7:44Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" 50Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

John 10:7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a]

Acts2:21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.'[a]

Acts 15:8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Act 16:29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."
Romans 5:
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
Romans 10:
8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[a] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Romans 10:13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[a]

1Corinthians 1:18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[a]

2 Corinthians 2: 14But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. 15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
Ephesians 2:
4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
2Thessalonians 2:from the beginning God chose you[a] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

Who is boasting?

Not me friend. Apart from Christ I'm nothing. But I'm saved and this is by faith, the cleansing of Christ, and not by works so that no man can boast.

Talk about making accusations.

Who did I accuse friend?

What the discernment of the Holy Spirit gives me is the right to proclaim God's truth in the face of lies. If you CHOOSE to do otherwise, do you.

The Holy Spirit dwells in me and I have been given discernment. I'm not sure what you have except a condescending tone...

If I quote God's Word and issue is taken with what God's Word says, the issue is with God's Word. And you staking claim to change that doesn't change it anymore than does the words of the ones who want to twist God's Word.

...and what Scripture did you quote that I had a problem with?

What does God's Word say?
What does God's Word say?
I was speaking of YOUR attitude.
Yep.
Then you'll look a long time. It's very rare that I give my interpretation for that very reason. As it stands and as it always has stood, my interpretation ain't worth a hill of beans. The only interpretation that matters is that of the AUTHOR and it is clear whose is aligned with what GOD says.

I figured as much. You say alot without speaking a word.

What does the FULL COUNSEL of GOD'S WORD say? I know you're yawning because you think you've made a point. But all you're continuing to do is make it clear that you don't know what you're talking about by trying to separate that which can't be separated.

No zack, I'm yawning because you are incapable of answering questions and you are doing nothing but boring me.

Maybe it's you who need to go back and read all of your posts if you want clarity to that question.

Quote it Zaaci. Quote one time where I said "all" Christians and lumped them into a group. Because dude, if I did that I would have been lumping myself in to wouldn't I? Are you hard headed or just acting?

Naa. You've taken a page out of another recently departed from the board person's book.

What the heck are you talking about guy?

If He did not speak it to those who were saved through Him, then no one else would know about it because they are the ones who told the stories and wrote it down.

Please oh please tell me where those who believe and are saved will go to hell. Because it is made very clear Once you are saved you are always saved.
It is not by law we are saved friend.

My point is this: Digest your own words for it is to you that they are most appropos.

Did you mean to say apropos?
Maybe you should digest your own words before you type.
Have you forgotten who you are?


and yet again I pose these questions to you?
What of the married man who divorces his first wife and takes another bride? It is adultery, but the man is not willing to leave his second wife.. Will he not be saved? Is he not forgiven?

And as I've said, my interpretation isn't relevant. As a man of God, I am to lean on Christ for HIS understanding, not mine.

sure.

 

[Jerrell]

Not everyone is Christian, and not everyone believes the bible. I'm just saying.

If we restrict someone else's right to marry, then they'll begin restricting our rights as Christian.

Don't deny the Bible to conform to the World.

 

[Miracle Storm]

Christianity is about Christ. And you can't have the love of Chist without the wrath of Christ.

Romans 5:9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

As I have said to many others, I have no problem standing before Christ and giving an account for doing what He says to do. I rest unapologetically in His Word. Can you say the same?

...and I rest unapologetically in Christ and the free gift of Salvation through Him!
praise God!!

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

Don't deny the Bible to conform to the World.

I'm not! I'm just saying if we want others to allow us to be free to worship, then we've got to allow others to be free to do what they wish. You know that phrase "do unto others as you would have others do unto you"? If we restrict their rights as people in love, if we restrict their rights as humans, they will restrict ours.

And how does that deny the bible?

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Not everyone is Christian, and not everyone believes the bible. I'm just saying.

If we restrict someone else's right to marry, then they'll begin restricting our rights as Christian.

When that time comes, should we rejoice in being able to suffer for Christ? (Or just lose rights..)

 

[Zaac]

I know the context of the Scripture and used it correctly. You miss the point, not one I'm trying to make, but of THAT Scripture.

I know the point of THAT Scripture. And as I said before your context is wrong because the point you're vainly attempting to make is not made with that Scripture.

No it isn't as the woman was a sinner. The others coming for her wanted to stone her to death, stone by stone...Until Jesus spoke.
He who is without sin cast the first stone. They walked away. That is the message to you from Him. BACK OFF. Instead of stoning people with your words. If I met you face to face would truth be known that you are a hypocrite??

Like I said, out of context and not applicable to the situation. That Scripture speaks to taking the life of another when we are just as sinful.

The issue at hand is one of righteous judgment, not death, of a situation.

So again, you've taken the Scripture out of context and attempted to apply it where it does not apply.

You speak, yet say nothing.

You speak, yet hear nothing.

Where did I say "all"?
Show it.
Or was it just another one of your many premature presumptions?
Remember zaac, context is very important.

That's right context is very important. So go back and examine your context.

How did Jesus walk? Did He walk in love? Who did He spend time with? Was it not sinners? Was Jesus mocked for spending time with, eating food with and loving those sinners?
What does God command? Law? NO no no. You miss context friend. You miss the point in having our precious Savior. If man could obey the law we would have never needed a Savior, but we couldn't and we do.

And this is where you keep screwing up. Some kind of way in your rush to be apologetic, you've missed that Jesus Christ IS the Law. You've missed that you can't separate His Love from the very Word that HE is.

And taking the FULL COUNSEL of the Word, you can't walk with Christ without obedience to the Law that is Him.

God commands obedience so it is YOU who have completely missed the context of what it is to come to Christ and what the ongoing result should be.

The Holy Spirit dwells in me and I have been given discernment. I'm not sure what you have except a condescending tone..

Now that's the height of hypocrisy.

.
...and what Scripture did you quote that I had a problem with?

That was not in reference to a Scripture that YOU took issue with.

I figured as much. You say alot without speaking a word.

Ain't no need for me to speak where God has spoken. You ought to try that sometime and let the Word set men free.

No zack, I'm yawning because you are incapable of answering questions and you are doing nothing but boring me.

There's no need for me to answer what God has answered. If "what does God say" does not meet your needs, I can't help ya.

Quote it Zaaci. Quote one time where I said "all" Christians and lumped them into a group. Because dude, if I did that I would have been lumping myself in to wouldn't I? Are you hard headed or just acting?

Theres no "i" at the end of my name.

What the heck are you talking about guy?

Again, I know what I'm talking about and again you don't.

Please oh please tell me where those who believe and are saved will go to hell. Because it is made very clear Once you are saved you are always saved.
It is not by law we are saved friend.

Here is what was said :

Originally Posted by zaac
Why should hell not come up? Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else in the Bible.

And your reply:
Not to those that were saved through HIM.

So why are you asking whether or not those who are saved will go to hell when that's not from what your statement orignated?

Did you mean to say apropos?

Naah. I meant to SPELL "apropos".

Maybe you should digest your own words before you type.

Naah. I just need to start running spellcheck.

Have you forgotten who you are?

I know very well who I am and do not have to apologize for what God says.

and yet again I pose these questions to you?
What of the married man who divorces his first wife and takes another bride? It is adultery, but the man is not willing to leave his second wife.. Will he not be saved? Is he not forgiven?

And yet again I say to you, what does God say?

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

When that time comes, should we rejoice in being able to suffer for Christ? (Or just lose rights..)

I'm sure, that if we really got down to it, most people wouldn't be Christian because they wouldn't be free to worship openly.

 

[Zaac]

Romans 5:9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Did the wrath of Christ disappear because we are saved? His wrath still goes hand in hand with His love. It's just not directed at the one who is saved. You can't have His love without His wrath.

 

[Miracle Storm]

I know the point of THAT Scripture. And as I said before your context is wrong because the point you're vainly attempting to make is not made with that Scripture.



Like I said, out of context and not applicable to the situation. That Scripture speaks to taking the life of another when we are just as sinful.

blue bold = exactly
They wanted to condemn her to death.
What is hell? Is it not the final death?
I do not believe that anyone should be judging people's Salvation based on what "sin" you believe they have committed.
That's the stones...get it yet?

The issue at hand is one of righteous judgment, not death, of a situation.

So again, you've taken the Scripture out of context and attempted to apply it where it does not apply.

That's YOUR interpretation, which is wrong.

You speak, yet hear nothing.

I hear correctly. You hear only what you want. . .

That's right context is very important. So go back and examine your context.

I know what my posts say, it is you having trouble with context, here and the Word. Sorry, I'll pray for you.

And this is where you keep screwing up. Some kind of way in your rush to be apologetic, you've missed that Jesus Christ IS the Law. You've missed that you can't separate His Love from the very Word that HE is.

Have you read the Bible?
Romans 7:4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

And taking the FULL COUNSEL of the Word, you can't walk with Christ without obedience to the Law that is Him.

see above Scriptures and all others I have listed for your benefit in this thread...

God commands obedience so it is YOU who have completely missed the context of what it is to come to Christ and what the ongoing result should be.

Love is commanded.
John 15:
11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

Now that's the height of hypocrisy.

That was not in reference to a Scripture that YOU took issue with.

Well that's good to hear coming from YOU.

Ain't no need for me to speak where God has spoken. You ought to try that sometime and let the Word set men free.

Hm. What do you call all the Scriptures I quoted on being saved?
BTW being saved, you are set free. . .All glory be to God!

There's no need for me to answer what God has answered. If "what does God say" does not meet your needs, I can't help ya.

Then there are not many you can help are there?
Who could you minister to if you have no discernment?

Theres no "i" at the end of my name.

Excuse me zaac.

Again, I know what I'm talking about and again you don't.

Here is what was said :

Originally Posted by zaac
Why should hell not come up? Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else in the Bible.

And your reply:
Not to those that were saved through HIM.

So why are you asking whether or not those who are saved will go to hell when that's not from what your statement orignated?

Because zaac He did not speak to the saved of going to hell for "sin". WHY? The saved are already cleansed, white as snow...
But to those about the people who had not yet recieved Salvation about those they would minister to and bring the good news.

Naah. I meant to SPELL "apropos".



Naah. I just need to start running spellcheck.

my, my, zaac, no need to get offended because of your typo/spelling mistake and myself inquiring your meaning

I know very well who I am and do not have to apologize for what God says.

Well if you think so. . .
I didn't ask you to apologize for what God says, nor for what you say. Which isn't the same thing.

And yet again I say to you, what does God say?

So you have no such discernment into His word that you would share with anyone??
Your choice.

 

[Miracle Storm]

Romans 5:9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

...and I rest unapologetically in Christ and the free gift of Salvation through Him!
praise God!!

Did the wrath of Christ disappear because we are saved? His wrath still goes hand in hand with His love. It's just not directed at the one who is saved. You can't have His love without His wrath.

Read the Scripture Zaac, just read it. :o
There is no wrath for those who are saved through Christ.

 

[Zaac]

blue bold = exactly
They wanted to condemn her to death.
What is hell? Is it not the final death?
I do not believe that anyone should be judging people's Salvation based on what "sin" you believe they have committed.
That's the stones...get it yet?

That's YOUR interpretation, which is wrong.

And you're still wrong. I spoke to righteously judging a situation, not stoning someone to death for sin. You're still on the wrong page.

I hear correctly. You hear only what you want. . .

I hear that which is aligned with God's Word.

I know what my posts say, it is you having trouble with context, here and the Word. Sorry, I'll pray for you.

Then deal with what you think you said.

Have you read the Bible?

Have you?

see above Scriptures and all others I have listed for your benefit in this thread...

All Scripture is to my benefit.

Love is commanded.

And this changes obedience from being commanded how?

Then there are not many you can help are there?
Who could you minister to if you have no discernment?

I let Jesus Christ hande His business. There ain't nothing that I can do for a dying man but let Christ use me to deliver His truth that sets men free.

And me letting God's Word speak and deliver His truth has nothing to do with my discernment that is from Him.

Because zaac He did not speak to the saved of going to hell for "sin". WHY? The saved are already cleansed, white as snow...
But to those about the people who had not yet recieved Salvation about those they would minister to and bring the good news.

Were his disciples saved when He spoke to them about the rich man and Lazarus?

I do understand what you're saying though. But also understand that if folks are rejecting the very Word of God and unrepentantly living as the world instead of in the way of Jesus whom they say they follow, then they may not be what they say they are.

And another reason for preaching of hell to such people is because they need to be corrected and rebuked about their actions that will be a stumbling block that could possibly direct another to hell.

my, my, zaac, no need to get offended because of your typo/spelling mistake and myself inquiring your meaning

There was no offense. I'll just start running a spellcheck.

Well if you think so. . .
I didn't ask you to apologize for what God says, nor for what you say. Which isn't the same thing.

So why do you keep expressing your angst for me asking what does God say when you wanna know what I think?

So you have no such discernment into His word that you would share with anyone??
Your choice.

I give discernment when discernment is needed. But if you want to hear what I think first instead of what God says, I can't help ya.

 

[Zaac]

Read the Scripture Zaac, just read it. :o
There is no wrath for those who are saved through Christ.

Take your own advice. There not being any wrath for the saved does not separate the love and wrath of Christ. They still go hand in hand.

If you throw out the wrath, even though it's not directed at you, then you've thrown out Christ as who He says He is and fashioned a false god.

There is no love of Christ without the wrath of Christ. The two are inseparable.

 

[Miracle Storm]

And you're still wrong. I spoke to righteously judging a situation, not stoning someone to death for sin. You're still on the wrong page.

wow.
Okay, so you are speaking of "righteously judging a situation"
Im talking about people stating others are "condemned to hell for their sins" and that to those who are saved.
Hell is the final death.
I believe once saved always saved if that helps you to understand my position any better...

I hear that which is aligned with God's Word.

I recieve what is from the Holy Spirit and only accept the truth.
Sin can/will damage someone's testimony who is saved, but I do not believe their own Salvation is in Jeopardy.

Then deal with what you think you said.

lol
whatever zaac.

Have you?

Many, many times yes, not just read, studied.

All Scripture is to my benefit.

Yes, it is. But I was speaking of the Scripture I posted in this thread as an example of what you implied I had not done. . ."you ought to try sometime"..remember??

And this changes obedience from being commanded how?

Do you really not understand or are you playing some sort of game? Cause really, I'm not interested in silly games. . .

I let Jesus Christ hande His business. There ain't nothing that I can do for a dying man but let Christ use me to deliver His truth that sets men free.

...and if that dying man asked you what Scripture meant???

And me letting God's Word speak and deliver His truth has nothing to do with my discernment that is from Him.

Yes, discerment is from Him, that is why I don't understand why you will not even answer the simplest of questions concerning God's word and/or talk in circles...

Were his disciples saved when He spoke to them about the rich man and Lazarus?

I do understand what you're saying though. But also understand that if folks are rejecting the very Word of God and unrepentantly living as the world instead of in the way of Jesus whom they say they follow, then they may not be what they say they are.

Maybe not, but it is not for me to judge their Salvation, but only share the good news with them.
I rebuke sin, but not to the point of making someone feel condemned especially those that are saved. I still have sin in my life that I can't rid myself of. My Salvation has nothing to do with that of the law, it is of Christ. He is the "narrow gate" The only way. Personally when convicted by the Holy Spirit I do repent, because I love God and I do not like to grieve Him. But I do not think my Salvation hinges on that...

And another reason for preaching of hell to such people is because they need to be corrected and rebuked about their actions that will be a stumbling block that could possibly direct another to hell.

Yes, we should correct each other, but also help to carry each others burdens...I don't think it should be "fear factor" though.

There was no offense. I'll just start running a spellcheck.

okie doke.

So why do you keep expressing your angst for me asking what does God say when you wanna know what I think?

As I have said Multiple times I would like to know your interpretation of Scripture for certain circumstances. But that time has passed and I don't your interpretation anymore. I haven't expressed angst, bored maybe, but not angst. Hopefully it just gave you something to think about and study since you would give no answer to my questions.

I give discernment when discernment is needed.

Apparently the questions I asked brought you to the conclusion that discernment wasn't needed...okay.

But if you want to hear what I think first instead of what God says, I can't help ya.

Nope. I wanted you to back up what you said with Scripture just as I have.

Take your own advice. There not being any wrath for the saved does not separate the love and wrath of Christ. They still go hand in hand.

As I said there is no wrath for those who are saved. As it states in the Scripture provided.
If you disagree than your interpretation is lacking truth...

If you throw out the wrath, even though it's not directed at you, then you've thrown out Christ as who He says He is and fashioned a false god.

Do what?!
We are talking about those who are saved.
I haven't "fashioned a false god" I have quoted Scripture. Yet you judge falsely.

There is no love of Christ without the wrath of Christ. The two are inseparable.

WHAT??!
PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR THIS CLAIM.

 

[Zaac]

Is it ok for them to lust inside of a marriage?

The marriage bed is undefiled. Doesn't mean that it can't be defiled by pulling stuff into it that isn't supposed to be there.

 

[Zaac]

wow.
Okay, so you are speaking of "righteously judging a situation"
Im talking about people stating others are "condemned to hell for their sins" and that to those who are saved.
Hell is the final death.

Girl, you ain't said anything about that being said to saved people in your OP. That's what I spoke to. You said

We were condemned for love. That's what I knew in that dream. We were condemned because we were different. We had to hide who we were or people would want to hurt us....

The underlying message to me was homosexuals are people and no matter what your beliefs are you have to remember that their feelings, emotions, are real.
I don't know maybe people will say God is turning me over to a reprobate mind....'cause that's what I first thought.
But what is worse loving someone of the same sex or killing and hurting people because of that love?

I have been feeling since I had that dream as I did when I was younger. Like lifeviews are forming, new understanding is coming, discernment....

And if there is someone endorsing all sorts of unGodly behavior and rejecting the very Word of God, what reason do you have to say that they are saved anymorer than the next person saying that based upon the fruit, or lack thereof , that they appear to not be what they say?

I believe once saved always saved if that helps you to understand my position any better...

Again, what does God say? What you say aligns with His Word, but what do I care what you believe? I live in accordance with God's Word.

I recieve what is from the Holy Spirit and only accept the truth.
Sin can/will damage someone's testimony who is saved, but I do not believe their own Salvation is in Jeopardy.

No where does God's Word teach that folks who willfully continue in the same sin without repentance are saved. It would be different if folks were saying they are asking for forgiveness because they just don't know if what they are doing is wrong, or that they are doing what they want regardless of what God's Word says. But that ain't the case. You've got folks rejecting the very Word of God because it doesn't license them to do what they want.

There is a narrow path to be walked by the Christian. If God ain't chasing you back onto the path when you sin, it's because you haven't ever been on the path.

So I don't hve a problem with OSAS. I have a problem with if they were EVER saved.

lol
whatever zaac.

Yep.

Many, many times yes, not just read, studied.

OK

Yes, it is. But I was speaking of the Scripture I posted in this thread as an example of what you implied I had not done. . ."you ought to try sometime"..remember??

I know what you were referencing. You still need to look atthe FULL COUNSEL of God's Word.

Do you really not understand or are you playing some sort of game? Cause really, I'm not interested in silly games. .

.

No games. I understand perfectly. You're trying to separate something that cannot be separated.

...and if that dying man asked you what Scripture meant???

Then I let God continue to use me as His instrument to say what HE MEANS instead of what I interpret Him to mean.

Yes, discerment is from Him, that is why I don't understand why you will not even answer the simplest of questions concerning God's word and/or talk in circles...

Because you want my interpretation. What do you need that for? SO that you can find some point to analyze? That's why I tell people what God says. If you've got an issue, it will be with His Word.

When people are seeking truth rather than points to argue, I give discernment.

Maybe not, but it is not for me to judge their Salvation, but only share the good news with them.

If you're sharing the Good News with them, you've judged their salvation.

We do it all the time with people on the street we do not know. w start telling them the Good News because we don't know.

I rebuke sin, but not to the point of making someone feel condemned especially those that are saved.

Which again, to the lengths that some in this forum have completely rejected all things of Christ yet profess that they are Christians, I honestly don't see what they are saying that leaves your spirit feeling that they are saved.

I still have sin in my life that I can't rid myself of. My Salvation has nothing to do with that of the law, it is of Christ. He is the "narrow gate" The only way. Personally when convicted by the Holy Spirit I do repent, because I love God and I do not like to grieve Him. But I do not think my Salvation hinges on that...

14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:14

There is also a narrow road that the Christian is supposed to be on. Perhaps one of the greatest detriments of the modern day church is that we have continued to tell this lie to people that they are saved while they continue to walk the broad road that leads to destruction just like the rest of an unsaved world.

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Matthew 7:13

Yes, we should correct each other, but also help to carry each others burdens...I don't think it should be "fear factor" though.

Who said anything about fear?

Nope. I wanted you to back up what you said with Scripture just as I have.

That's not what you asked me to do. I could have easily given you Scripture. You asked for what I thought. And my reply was, "what does God's Word say?"

As I said there is no wrath for those who are saved. As it states in the Scripture provided.
If you disagree than your interpretation is lacking truth...

And as I said, you need to learn to use the FULL COUNSEL of God's Word because you can't separate His love and wrath without separating Him.

So it is YOU who are lacking understanding.
Do what?!
We are talking about those who are saved.
I haven't "fashioned a false god" I have quoted Scripture. Yet you judge falsely.

We're talking about everyone. Saved people are good for fashioning false gods. That's how they become fasle teachers.

If you have separated God's love from His wrath, you have fashioned a false god.

WHAT??!
PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR THIS CLAIM.

Yep. Too much of Christendom has this notion that you can have the love of God without the wrath of God. God's wrath hasn't gone anywhere. He can fully love you because you ae obedient and not direct His still present wrath toward you.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. Romans 11:22

EZekiel 33:11 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from you evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?"

God takes no pleasure in directing His wrath at us. But the very same God who directs His love at us is the very same God who directs His wrath at us when we sin without repentance.

The only way to have His love without His wrath is for there to be no sin in the world and all be saved. And by Scripture, we know that not all will be saved.