I feel scared to preach about Election and Predestination...

[Bob Jones Student]

Hello,

Some of you already know me from the summer. Anyway I feel scared to preach on election and predestination. I believe that the five points of calvinism, as a systematic theology, are Biblical. Nevertheless I'm scared to preach anything on election. I don't want to be, but because I'm in Baptist circles I'm immediately looked on in suspicion and curiosity if I mention anything about election, predestination, calvinism, etc.

I'm also scared to tell people that I believe in particular redemption. I've prayed and asked God many times to take it away from my heart, if it isn't true, but I cannot let it go. I believe, sincerely believe that Christ only died for the elect, yet I'll be viewed as a heretic by my baptist brethren.

I'm currently attending Bob Jones university. Though we remain hidden, it seems that a lot more are becoming Calvinistic, at least through the Seminary. Nevertheless, I feel that I'm still looked down upon, and am heretical in my doctrines.

I'm also afraid of whether or not I'll be brought on as a pastor eventually. If I tell whatever future Church that I believe that the five-points are biblical, they probably won't bring me on.

I don't know what else to say. Arminians are round about me, and crush me on every side.

-Aaron

 

[nill]

Hello,

Some of you already know me from the summer. Anyway I feel scared to preach on election and predestination. I believe that the five points of calvinism, as a systematic theology, are Biblical. Nevertheless I'm scared to preach anything on election. I don't want to be, but because I'm in Baptist circles I'm immediately looked on in suspicion and curiosity if I mention anything about election, predestination, calvinism, etc.

I'm also scared to tell people that I believe in particular redemption. I've prayed and asked God many times to take it away from my heart, if it isn't true, but I cannot let it go. I believe, sincerely believe that Christ only died for the elect, yet I'll be viewed as a heretic by my baptist brethren.

I'm currently attending Bob Jones university. Though we remain hidden, it seems that a lot more are becoming Calvinistic, at least through the Seminary. Nevertheless, I feel that I'm still looked down upon, and am heretical in my doctrines.

I'm also afraid of whether or not I'll be brought on as a pastor eventually. If I tell whatever future Church that I believe that the five-points are biblical, they probably won't bring me on.

I don't know what else to say. Arminians are round about me, and crush me on every side.

-Aaron

It's really good to hear from you again. Honestly. You were asking really good questions here, and then poof -- where'd you go? (Haha, okay, so school started...)

I hear a lot about this: Reformed theology "making a comeback." For instance: "Young, Restless, Reformed"

It's really encouraging, I think, and it should give you some comfort. Not that it's the most popular theology out there--it's not, and by this time in history, it probably never will be. But by the grace of God, more and more are coming to a knowledge of the truth. Surrounded by Arminians on every side? Yeah... that happens, unfortunately, but keep your gaze on Christ. Speak with grace and love.

Part of that grace and love is shown through the doctrine of particular redemption. It's the only doctrine that preaches that Jesus actually saves. I can tell the fear you speak of, because I know how poorly it's received by those cling to their notion of this ambiguous "free will" that exists and that they've been taught since childhood. But their theology forces them to say that Jesus' atonement does not by itself actually atone for sins... which is clearly not how Jesus is described in the Bible! (Does His statement, "It is finished!" ring a bell??)

But anyway, that grace and love is shown in this: that there is a people that God has so dearly loved, that He sent His Son to pay the punishment of their sins so that they will be saved. It cannot be put more simply than this: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).

Preach on it. And don't be scared to preach on it. What this doctrine ultimately does is magnify Christ, rather than our free wills, and Christ should be the focus of your sermons. He's what people need.

 

[Theognome]

Hello,

Some of you already know me from the summer. Anyway I feel scared to preach on election and predestination. I believe that the five points of calvinism, as a systematic theology, are Biblical. Nevertheless I'm scared to preach anything on election. I don't want to be, but because I'm in Baptist circles I'm immediately looked on in suspicion and curiosity if I mention anything about election, predestination, calvinism, etc.

I'm also scared to tell people that I believe in particular redemption. I've prayed and asked God many times to take it away from my heart, if it isn't true, but I cannot let it go. I believe, sincerely believe that Christ only died for the elect, yet I'll be viewed as a heretic by my baptist brethren.

I'm currently attending Bob Jones university. Though we remain hidden, it seems that a lot more are becoming Calvinistic, at least through the Seminary. Nevertheless, I feel that I'm still looked down upon, and am heretical in my doctrines.

I'm also afraid of whether or not I'll be brought on as a pastor eventually. If I tell whatever future Church that I believe that the five-points are biblical, they probably won't bring me on.

I don't know what else to say. Arminians are round about me, and crush me on every side.

-Aaron

A good friend of mine is a Reformed Baptist pastor who also is a graduate of Bob Jones. He's preached on these subjects many times, and I'd suggest getting in touch with him (he's very approachable). His name is John Weaver, and his email addy is (They won't let me!). PM me (if you can- I'm still new) and I'll send you his email addy- or his direct phone number, if you prefer. He'd love to hear from you.

Theognome

 

[McWilliams]

I would suggest preaching scripture, as it is stated and self declared without labeling everything! It is just so clear and self explanatory that if you read from Ephesians it can be clearly seen, undisputed! If you do this the rest is up to the Lord! After you have preached the word, His word then has a life of its own and the Holy Spirit will work where it will!

 

[nill]

I would suggest preaching scripture, as it is stated and self declared without labeling everything! It is just so clear and self explanatory that if you read from Ephesians it can be clearly seen, undisputed! If you do this the rest is up to the Lord! After you have preached the word, His word then has a life of its own and the Holy Spirit will work where it will!

Of course, Aaron, this is what I really meant, make no mistake! Preaching the Word of God is of the utmost importance. Doctrine comes from Scripture, as always.

 

[Bob Jones Student]

Of course, Aaron, this is what I really meant, make no mistake! Preaching the Word of God is of the utmost importance. Doctrine comes from Scripture, as always.

Of course, as I'm not trying to place a system above the scripture, only that it clarifies to others your position.

 

[cygnusx1]

Hello,

Some of you already know me from the summer. Anyway I feel scared to preach on election and predestination. I believe that the five points of calvinism, as a systematic theology, are Biblical. Nevertheless I'm scared to preach anything on election. I don't want to be, but because I'm in Baptist circles I'm immediately looked on in suspicion and curiosity if I mention anything about election, predestination, calvinism, etc.

I'm also scared to tell people that I believe in particular redemption. I've prayed and asked God many times to take it away from my heart, if it isn't true, but I cannot let it go. I believe, sincerely believe that Christ only died for the elect, yet I'll be viewed as a heretic by my baptist brethren.

I'm currently attending Bob Jones university. Though we remain hidden, it seems that a lot more are becoming Calvinistic, at least through the Seminary. Nevertheless, I feel that I'm still looked down upon, and am heretical in my doctrines.

I'm also afraid of whether or not I'll be brought on as a pastor eventually. If I tell whatever future Church that I believe that the five-points are biblical, they probably won't bring me on.

I don't know what else to say. Arminians are round about me, and crush me on every side.

-Aaron

hi bro , preach total depravity and eternal security week after week ........ the rest will just follow.

 

[heymikey80]

Paul didn't shrink from predestination, but he didn't plaster it explicitly across every page either. Do the same. Predestination has a proper role in the education and edification of Christ's church, but it shouldn't be a preoccupying doctrine. Even Calvin said it shouldn't be obsessed-over.

So don't.

If a church has a particular dislike of Calvinists, you may not really want that as your first ministry. They'll ask, you'll answer, and it'll be fine.

 

[Ryft]

I'm also scared to tell people that I believe in particular redemption.

Why, exactly? Is it because some church might not want you as their pastor if you confess such a belief? I have no idea what the process is like for becoming a pastor of some church—and it's probably different between various churches anyway—but I should hope that an examination process would provide you with an opportunity to also explain WHY you believe one thing or another. There you would have your chance to lay out the solid biblical testimony that leads to such a conclusion; and if you provide a strong biblical exegesis that exhibits a solid logical structure, why on earth would they reject you? Would you even want to be a pastor at a church that DENIES the fully efficacious nature of Christ's atoning sacrifice?

Because that is what it comes down to, as I am sure you already know. To believe that Christ died for all mankind without discrimination while also believing that a population of mankind will suffer the sentence of hellfire—moreover, that some are already there—requires the belief that Christ's atoning sacrifice did not fully propitiate God's wrath, calling for a re-examination of 1 John 2:2 and a host of other passages! Either Christ's atoning sacrifice (a) FULLY propitiated God's wrath or (b) MOSTLY did so. If one confesses the former, then only 'particular redemption' can follow because Scripture is clear that some are condemned to the fires of hell. If the latter, then a responsible and reverent exegesis of the scriptures on the subject of 'propitiation' is demanded; i.e., it would have to be shown FROM Scripture that Christ's sacrifice was just 'mostly' propitiatory.

And remember, a deep and overwhelming love for God crushes all fear—even fear of Arminians, because a committed child of the living God cares more about what God thinks than what Arminians (or anyone else) thinks. Stay head-over-heels in love with God and maintain a fiery passion for his Word, and share that passion with your Arminian friends. Trust me, it's contagious. They'll catch it.

 

[mlqurgw]

Hello,

Some of you already know me from the summer. Anyway I feel scared to preach on election and predestination. I believe that the five points of calvinism, as a systematic theology, are Biblical. Nevertheless I'm scared to preach anything on election. I don't want to be, but because I'm in Baptist circles I'm immediately looked on in suspicion and curiosity if I mention anything about election, predestination, calvinism, etc.

I'm also scared to tell people that I believe in particular redemption. I've prayed and asked God many times to take it away from my heart, if it isn't true, but I cannot let it go. I believe, sincerely believe that Christ only died for the elect, yet I'll be viewed as a heretic by my baptist brethren.

I'm currently attending Bob Jones university. Though we remain hidden, it seems that a lot more are becoming Calvinistic, at least through the Seminary. Nevertheless, I feel that I'm still looked down upon, and am heretical in my doctrines.

I'm also afraid of whether or not I'll be brought on as a pastor eventually. If I tell whatever future Church that I believe that the five-points are biblical, they probably won't bring me on.

I don't know what else to say. Arminians are round about me, and crush me on every side.

-Aaron

At the risk of sounding mean or harsh, which isn't my intention, what you need is to grow a backbone. No man who is afraid to preach any of God's truth is called of God to preach His truth. Those who fear man will always compromise in some way to please those they fear. That is never the case with God's men. I don't mean to say that you will never be called of God to preach but that at this point you aren't. There are any men who hold to the truth of God but few whom the truths hold.

 

[heymikey80]

That backbone may come from a closer reliance on Scripture, studying and confirming or denying the understandings of Calvinists. It took a lot of theological searching for me to get where I am, too. But it came from desperate searches as to why Reformed theology is what it is. Bob Jones has things to commend it, but it is not likely to teach you that background. But it's there. People like Loraine Boettner and John Murray and Gerhard Vos and R.C. Sproul and of course John Calvin are esteemed because they expose the truth of Scripture in ways few others have. Their reputation is derivative. Anyone else can see their work for what it is because it shows something emblazoned across the text of Scripture.

You'll also have something in common with others who've been to Bob Jones ...

http://rbvincent.com/BJU.htm

 

[ContraMundum]

As an ordained minister, I should mention that should you take on the ministry of a church they will want to know what you think of these things anyway. Better to just be honest and upfront about your beliefs so people don't get unfounded expectations about you ministering in a church that has a different point of view to the one you hold privately. God will slot you in where He wants you. Just be open about your convictions and let Him take care of the rest.

 

[FaithfulRemnant]

The Apostle Paul was not afraid to discuss the topic(you probably already know these scriptures)

As for Baptists and this topic, I think a few people already addressed this...Reformed Baptists and Primitive Baptists hold to Reformed doctrine.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."(Rom. 8:29 & 30)
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world...Having predestinated us us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."(Eph. 1:4&5)
"God hath from the beginning chosen you for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."(2 Thess. 2:13&14) Notice in each passage that God's predestination and foreknowledge is built on the foundation of Christ(his Son, Jesus Christ, our Lord Jesus Christ, our gospel, etc), so it is not man-centered. Each passage points to the work of Jesus Christ. It is not my work, but God's work through His Son. Hope that helps.

 

[JM]

I wonder what happened to thread starter?

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Reach down and grab a hold.

 

[twin1954]

Reach down and grab a hold.

I am not sure that I get the meaning.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

I am not sure that I get the meaning.

Guys in the Marines used to say that all the time when something requires cojones.

 

[JustAsIam77]

This old thread just reminded me how much I miss mikey.

 

[kenrapoza]

Where did he go? I've become scarce on here nowadays, but I remember that he used to be a mainstay...