I feel like I'm struggling

[FireDragon76]

I feel like I'm struggling as a Christian. COVID has changed alot.

I came back to the Church because of listening to John Vervaeke's lectures during the pandemic. He articulated something about Christianity well, but I don't find it reflected in churches in real life. I also read some of the writings of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and his cosmic view of the meaning of Christianity appealed to me. I go to a middle-of-the-road Congregationalist church that's part of the UCC. But it just seems like soft-pedalled Evangelicalism with inclusive language and LGBT acceptance. It still seems to have some of the same issues I see in the wider Evangelical world, beyond the surface reading.

At church, I'm an odd duck. Both me and my S.O. became vegans during COVID. We spent alot of time taking nature walks as a way to stay sane, and we learned to explore other religious and philosophical perspectives (particularly Asian culture and history). We go to church and it feels like another world, with people with very different life experiences, so we have never been able to fully call the church home. The people are nice, but it always feels like it's difficult to relate to them, as different as it would be for somebody else from a different cultural background to fit in.

Like for instance, at coffee hour, we don't eat the cookies they serve, for alot of reasons. I am trying to watch my weight (I have a family history of obesity and diabetes, and I put on weight very easily). Even the vegan cookies they sometimes have brought in, aren't really the things we eat. We eat things like beans and rice, and no longer keep cookies in the house, nor do we drink things like soda pop. The few times we have gone out to eat with people at church, it's been very awkward (people at church like steakhouses, and they prefer bland food- whereas we eat alot of hot and spicy foods, Indian and Latin American/Carribean foods are some of our staples). I have tried to be polite, but it feels like a heavy cross to bear.

 

[godisagardener]

I've discovered over the years, regarding church, that I stay sanest by attending only those events that are geared toward worship and study or church business.

I find that the "social" aspect of church is something I stay away from. There's normally a group in any church that does the steakhouse thing you mentioned, has the coffee hours or breakfasts within the church, and socializes as a group outside the church. I'm not there for that. I volunteer, attend the quarterly business meeting supper, attend Bible studies. But beyond that I stay away from anything of a more personal nature. I like the people in church, but we all have quirks, and the less I know about those quirks the happier I am.

You shouldn't feel like you have to make excuses when it comes to food, whether in church or in a social setting. I'm a Baptist. Baptists for some odd reason have to have food whenever two or more people sit down together. At our business meeting supper probably 75% of the food is desserts and half of the rest is fried chicken! I'm not embarrassed not to partake and normally no one comments if I don't. If someone does I just tell them I have supper waiting at home, which is normally the case. In 1st Corinthians we're told not to become a stumbling block to others with the things we do; sometimes I think my fellow Baptists have become just that with their propensity toward food. But I guess that's another story.

I think our struggles as Christians come from trying to fit in, from wondering where we belong within a specific group or church. The bottom line is we just need to be ourselves, do what we feel comfortable doing, and leave it at that. We're supposed to be there to study and hear God's Word and to be a light to the world. I found out long ago there's no perfect church to attend, but we can make the best of the one we find.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I feel like I'm struggling as a Christian. COVID has changed alot.

I came back to the Church because of listening to John Vervaeke's lectures during the pandemic. He articulated something about Christianity well, but I don't find it reflected in churches in real life. I also read some of the writings of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and his cosmic view of the meaning of Christianity appealed to me. I go to a middle-of-the-road Congregationalist church that's part of the UCC. But it just seems like soft-pedalled Evangelicalism with inclusive language and LGBT acceptance. It still seems to have some of the same issues I see in the wider Evangelical world, beyond the surface reading.

At church, I'm an odd duck. Both me and my S.O. became vegans during COVID. We spent alot of time taking nature walks as a way to stay sane, and we learned to explore other religious and philosophical perspectives (particularly Asian culture and history). We go to church and it feels like another world, with people with very different life experiences, so we have never been able to fully call the church home. The people are nice, but it always feels like it's difficult to relate to them, as different as it would be for somebody else from a different cultural background to fit in.

Like for instance, at coffee hour, we don't eat the cookies they serve, for alot of reasons. I am trying to watch my weight (I have a family history of obesity and diabetes, and I put on weight very easily). Even the vegan cookies they sometimes have brought in, aren't really the things we eat. We eat things like beans and rice, and no longer keep cookies in the house, nor do we drink things like soda pop. The few times we have gone out to eat with people at church, it's been very awkward (people at church like steakhouses, and they prefer bland food- whereas we eat alot of hot and spicy foods, Indian and Latin American/Carribean foods are some of our staples). I have tried to be polite, but it feels like a heavy cross to bear.

... well, there's a reason that that typical Sunday School lesson or homily/sermon almost never includes anything from Pierre Teilhard de Chardin or similar figures.

As for the food-stuffs that often pass for "food" at a lot of church functions, you're right about all of that. And I think much of what you find at those functions reflects the average attention and knowledge given by average Americans toward average food consumed on a more than average basis.

 

[FireDragon76]

... well, there's a reason that that typical Sunday School lesson or homily/sermon almost never includes anything from Pierre Teilhard de Chardin or similar figures.

A few years ago the big royal wedding in England did have a quote from Teilhard, though, in the homily (this one here A quote by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin). But maybe that is because the priest presiding was Episcopalian.

Finding something consonant with that might be nice. Finding something consonant with things I care about in general might be a good thing, actually. So far I'm mostly hearing a message, that just beyond the usual Evangelical type religion (albeit of a liberal sort), is just "be nice". It's very anthropocentric, steeped in a certain cultural milieu that is dying off, and surprisingly conventional. And hey, being nice is great, especially in this culture of so much toxicity, but it really isn't living up to my intellectual expectations.

As for the food-stuffs that often pass for "food" at a lot of church functions, you're right about all of that. And I think much of what you find at those functions reflects the average attention and knowledge given by average Americans toward average food consumed on a more than average basis.

I don't think its coincidental that most of the people at church have diabetes.

My fear, if you can call it that, is I'm being judged for not eating what they eat (I'm a vegan BTW, mostly for health and environmental reasons, but I've also grown more fond of the idea of not eating animals, because hey, they might not like it).

 

[2PhiloVoid]

A few years ago the big royal wedding in England did have a quote from Teilhard, though, in the homily (this one here A quote by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin). But maybe that is because the priest presiding was Episcopalian.

Yes. His being Episcopalian (High Church form rather than Low Church?) probably had something to do with offering a reference to Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

I know that from the dalliances I've had with various evangelical churches, I've never heard any references made to any of the theologians or Christian philosophers that I'm influenced by. If there have been a few made here or there, it was done in only a brief, pejorative manner.

Finding something consonant with that might be nice. Finding something consonant with things I care about in general might be a good thing, actually. So far I'm mostly hearing a message, that just beyond the usual Evangelical type religion (albeit of a liberal sort), is just "be nice". It's very anthropocentric, steeped in a certain cultural milieu that is dying off, and surprisingly conventional. And hey, being nice is great, especially in this culture of so much toxicity, but it really isn't living up to my intellectual expectations.

Maybe you might consider a different church? Maybe Episcopalian or some Emergent style church somewhere? ... for my part, I don't expect to find much in the way of any accomodation in the area where I live. At best, I'd probably have to start my own para-church style "philosophy club" in order to enjoy a social infrastructure geared toward a more existential mindfulness that remains open to Christianity.

I don't think its coincidental that most of the people at church have diabetes.

Yeah. I tend to agree with that statement, sad to say.

My fear, if you can call it that, is I'm being judged for not eating what they eat (I'm a vegan BTW, mostly for health and environmental reasons, but I've also grown more fond of the idea of not eating animals, because hey, they might not like it).

They need to get over their judgmental assumptions.

At the same time, if you're going to decide to continue at that church or any like it, you'll also have to make at least minimal accomodation for the presence of their own "humanity" in that that is where they are in their conceptual outlook of life and faith (and education). You don't have to like it or settle with it; but you may have to be willing to bear with it to some limited extent.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes. His being Episcopalian (High Church form rather than Low Church?) probably had something to do with offering a reference to Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

I know that from the dalliances I've had with various evangelical churches, I've never heard any references made to any of the theologians or Christian philosophers that I'm influenced by. If there have been a few made here or there, it was done in only a brief, pejorative manner.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective.

Christian philosophers are what kept me in the game, so to speak. I know we don't live in a very philosophically inclined culture, though. Average Christians in the US seem to rely alot upon community and emotional attachments that I really don't have.

I'm more of a Fred Rogers/Albert Schweitzer type Christian. I like their life affirming ethics. It's on a different page than Evangelicalism about Jesus dying and taking away your guilt so you can live a "normal life".

Maybe you might consider a different church? Maybe Episcopalian or some Emergent style church somewhere? ... for my part, I don't expect to find much in the way of any accomodation in the area where I live. At best, I'd probably have to start my own para-church style "philosophy club" in order to enjoy a social infrastructure geared toward a more existential mindfulness that remains open to Christianity.

Unfortunately Episcopalians down here are mostly Southern Baptists or Presbyterians in drag. Otherwise it would be a good choice.

They need to get over their judgmental assumptions.

Oh, they aren't judgemental but it's just an awkward situation. As young people, we are the objects of curiosity in a congregation that is almost all over the age of 50. Even moreso because we are vegans. And the educational moments are a little tiresome. We get asked alot what we watch on TV, or that sort of thing, and it's awkward to have to answer "we don't regularly watch television", and get puzzled reactions. That sort of thing. The "fellowship" is strained, to say the least. It would help if the church were more sacramental, but actually that is the weakest part of the religion, as they only have communion once a month (so sometimes I only go once or twice a month and just take breaks for a few weeks).

 

[RileyG]

I have no advice other than I will keep you in prayer and wish you the very best on your journey. Take care.