I Feel Both Welcomed and Alienated from New Church Simultaneously!

[tjrevelations]

I used to attend my current church casually: meaning once a month or so, but I was a regular at another church.

My main church underwent some bizarre changes which led me to attend the 2nd church more regularly.

Now that I am being recognized as a regular attendee, more and more of the church members and staff have been introducing themselves and doing their best to make me feel welcome.

What I find to be very, very strange however is that AFTER this first or maybe second attempt to show a high level of warmth, they often ignore me completely when I make eye contact, or if I greet them, they barely acknowledge me. This certainly doesn't happen with every single person at the church, but has happened often enough to make me wary.

It's very strange since often our chit chat initially is usually about completely generic, unthreatening topics (weather, recreational activities, etc) where it would be impossible to be offended by anything being discussed.

It certainly is possible that the previous church staff have been badmouthing me, but this seems unlikely. Possible, but unlikely. (At the previous church, I tried offering some constructive criticism on some very important issues and suffice to say, they weren't listening!)

This has led me to be a little leery of the integrity of church leadership generally speaking. Perhaps they sense this? Perhaps the previous church has been badmouthing me? Maybe I'm a little wary of THEM and it shows?

I don't know. It seems like everyone involved has the best of intentions but everyone is also super cautious and don't want to become TOO involved with the other party.

The cynic in me says the new church, a medium sized church, has to be nicer to attract and maintain a significant church membership compared to the my previous church, undoubtedly the most popular in our area.

I tend to be a bit more extroverted than average, but generally I am pretty laid-back, not so intense of a personality, especially when I first meet new people. There's definitely an odd tension at the church, despite the best of intentions.

I want to know, but I almost DON'T want to know what's going on behind the scenes lol. Has anyone experienced anything similar?

At the previous church I participated occasionally in church groups, but was generally part of the mass of attendees who were not considered part of the inner circle, meaning I had no regular interactions with staff until there was a serious issue and they basically stonewalled me.

 

[Mr. M]

At the previous church I participated occasionally in church groups, but was generally part of the mass of attendees who were not considered part of the inner circle, meaning I had no regular interactions with staff until there was a serious issue and they basically stonewalled me.

Does either church encourage home meetings?
It is hard to forge strong ties in an "at church" environment.
I would encourage you not to take personally the difficulty people
often have at opening up.
To get personal, invite some to join you for fellowship,
maybe at a coffee shop if your home isn't an option.
Relationships are difficult and require the grace of God found in Christ.
It is important to pursue these matters, and you seem determined to
do the Lord's Will. Be encouraged, and prayerful!
Grace and Peace,
James
You Are Restricted By Your Own Affections

 

[lismore]

What I find to be very, very strange however is that AFTER this first or maybe second attempt to show a high level of warmth, they often ignore me completely when I make eye contact, or if I greet them, they barely acknowledge me.

Hello! I wouldn't take it personally. Sometimes those involved in a service are ultra-busy much of the time at church, have a lot on their minds and may not always have time to meet and greet or make long conversations. A couple of church members were once upset with me because they felt I ignored them, I was actually moving swiftly to fetch a chair for an elderly church member who was standing waiting for the chair. There is an extreme amount of work goes into running a church and organising a service.

Perhaps give it more time and see, it take time to build relations with people.

Kind Regards to you

 

[Psalm 27]

I used to attend my current church casually: meaning once a month or so, but I was a regular at another church.

My main church underwent some bizarre changes which led me to attend the 2nd church more regularly.

Now that I am being recognized as a regular attendee, more and more of the church members and staff have been introducing themselves and doing their best to make me feel welcome.

What I find to be very, very strange however is that AFTER this first or maybe second attempt to show a high level of warmth, they often ignore me completely when I make eye contact, or if I greet them, they barely acknowledge me. This certainly doesn't happen with every single person at the church, but has happened often enough to make me wary.

It's very strange since often our chit chat initially is usually about completely generic, unthreatening topics (weather, recreational activities, etc) where it would be impossible to be offended by anything being discussed.

It certainly is possible that the previous church staff have been badmouthing me, but this seems unlikely. Possible, but unlikely. (At the previous church, I tried offering some constructive criticism on some very important issues and suffice to say, they weren't listening!)

This has led me to be a little leery of the integrity of church leadership generally speaking. Perhaps they sense this? Perhaps the previous church has been badmouthing me? Maybe I'm a little wary of THEM and it shows?

I don't know. It seems like everyone involved has the best of intentions but everyone is also super cautious and don't want to become TOO involved with the other party.

The cynic in me says the new church, a medium sized church, has to be nicer to attract and maintain a significant church membership compared to the my previous church, undoubtedly the most popular in our area.

I tend to be a bit more extroverted than average, but generally I am pretty laid-back, not so intense of a personality, especially when I first meet new people. There's definitely an odd tension at the church, despite the best of intentions.

I want to know, but I almost DON'T want to know what's going on behind the scenes lol. Has anyone experienced anything similar?

At the previous church I participated occasionally in church groups, but was generally part of the mass of attendees who were not considered part of the inner circle, meaning I had no regular interactions with staff until there was a serious issue and they basically stonewalled me.

was in a church for almost twenty years, and tried to stay out of the cliques and gossip. I didn't want to know either. Still don't.
The troublemakers (a handful) schemed, split the church and wore the poor pastor down in the end.
When fellowship banter is about weather, sport etc its not fellowship. Why are people in church not talking about the things of God? What's the point?
Have your old church bad mouthed you? Nothing surprises me. Sorry you were stonewalled, it's horrible. All the best finding a church family, to both of us
Numbers 6:24-26

 

[pdudgeon]

Hello! I wouldn't take it personally. Sometimes those involved in a service are ultra-busy much of the time at church, have a lot on their minds and may not always have time to meet and greet or make long conversations. A couple of church members were once upset with me because they felt I ignored them, I was actually moving swiftly to fetch a chair for an elderly church member who was standing waiting for the chair. There is an extreme amount of work goes into running a church and organising a service. Kind Regards to you

You've made very good points!
What goes into the organisation of a well-run Church,
is often barely visible above the surface.
But below the surface, it's usually a tale of busy feet paddling madly to keep everything afloat.
So if a person were to run across another member who greets them hastily, and looks distracted, try asking them if they need help doing something. It's the surest way to get acquainted that I've ever found.

 

[tjrevelations]

Very helpful perspectives, thank you all.

I often find or at least try to think of church as an oasis where we can leave our stressors behind for an hour or two. We are living in challenging times however so I can truly understand why that's difficult at present.

My new church may be struggling with finances? I know they've had a very tough time dealing with all of the political impositions of the past 2 years at the very least. I don't know how they engage in fundraising, it can't be easy.

Apparently, churches are being strongly discouraged from passing around offering plates and I have yet to see a single person drop a donation in any of the drop boxes on campus so I don't know what's going on financially.

It's all very confusing. All I know is that my new church is trying it's best.

 

[lismore]

Apparently, churches are being strongly discouraged from passing around offering plates and I have yet to see a single person drop a donation in any of the drop boxes on campus so I don't know what's going on financially.

Hello! You've hit on one of the big areas that could make a church leader seem stressed, distant or preoccupied, also perhaps making them want to talk about meaningless banter in order to ease their tension. God Bless

 

[tjrevelations]

You've made very good points!
What goes into the organisation of a well-run Church,
is often barely visible above the surface.
But below the surface, it's usually a tale of busy feet paddling madly to keep everything afloat.
So if a person were to run across another member who greets them hastily, and looks distracted, try asking them if they need help doing something. It's the surest way to get acquainted that I've ever found.

Yes, I was told that small group meetings and volunteering to help the church is a good way to get to know people.

I am reluctant however as I tried that last time at my former church and that led to severe problems. Basically, they were using teaching materials that were antithetical to true christian teachings and I tried to point this out to them.

Apparently the head pastor caught wind of all of this and became enraged. It turns out he is a real control freak and has a huge ego, based upon the size of the church's congregation.

In the small groups, I encountered a couple of group members who were basically mentally ill and monopolized the discussion time to share the most grisly details of violent events they claimed they encountered. It was frightening and bizarre and I am now reluctant to go down this path again.

Even in the new church, I've run into odd people. One lady started a conversation with me about food and then she almost immediately blurted out something about various groups eating dog meat or whatever, so random and inappropriate.

I am having a really difficult time meeting people who I think are normal and emotionally stable, even at church and so I am just becoming more and more cautious all the time.

 

[pdudgeon]

Very helpful perspectives, thank you all.

I often find or at least try to think of church as an oasis where we can leave our stressors behind for an hour or two. We are living in challenging times however so I can truly understand why that's difficult at present.

My new church may be struggling with finances? I know they've had a very tough time dealing with all of the political impositions of the past 2 years at the very least. I don't know how they engage in fundraising, it can't be easy.

Apparently, churches are being strongly discouraged from passing around offering plates and I have yet to see a single person drop a donation in any of the drop boxes on campus so I don't know what's going on financially.

It's all very confusing. All I know is that my new church is trying it's best.

It could be that they are taking donations electronically.
Try calling the Church office, and ask them which is the best way to help them out financially. They will be able to guide you, and will gladly do so.

 

[tjrevelations]

These perspectives are so enlightening I am getting a much better picture of the major challenges facing pastors and staff even on a regular basis aside from the craziness of the past 2 years.

I am sure the congregation is just as often confused as to what's appropriate about interactions now as well. I was talking with a fellow churchgoer and the previous person introduced himself with a handshake. This second gentleman with a fist bump, but later on he wanted to shake hands while I tried to accommodate him with a fist bump!

 

[pdudgeon]

These perspectives are so enlightening I am getting a much better picture of the major challenges facing pastors and staff even on a regular basis aside from the craziness of the past 2 years.

I am sure the congregation is just as often confused as to what's appropriate about interactions now as well. I was talking with a fellow churchgoer and the previous person introduced himself with a handshake. This second gentleman with a fist bump, but later on he wanted to shake hands while I tried to accommodate him with a fist bump!

Yep, it's social transition time for all of us! But everything will work itself out, gradually.

 

[tjrevelations]

Have your old church bad mouthed you? Nothing surprises me. Sorry you were stonewalled, it's horrible. All the best finding a church family, to both of us
Numbers 6:24-26

They could've been. The head pastor at my previous church was the self styled head honcho of churches in the local area. He was always bragging about how he "led" meetings for a large number of the local churches.

At my new church, the pastor mentions that he is friends with other local pastors and talks with them but doesn't ever imply, much less openly state, that he is their "leader."

I used to think highly of the previous church pastor but it became all too clear that he was driven by ego, ambition and pride, and not by any true sense of compassion for those attending church or for the community at large.

The previous church board was fond of trying to recruit board members and staff on the basis of their wealth and their status. It was always about money and status.

I used to think that the label of megachurch was misleading and insulting but in retrospect it was surprisingly accurate. I find it very, very difficult to trust church leadership and staff: I find myself second guessing their motives on a regular basis now.

I found the congregation to be very sheepish: they never questioned anything or offered their own input. They treated the lead pastor like a dictator bowing to his every whim. I was almost certainly the other church member who ever questioned their teachings and they became enraged that it could possibly be happening.

I can understand how horrible it would be if church members are scheming and trying to undermine, but I was doing the opposite trying to notify them that the "leading figures" they were praising were so openly anti-christian it was making a mockery of the church's integrity.

One more thing that became irritating after a while: the previous church would make a habit of "praying for" other local churches. At first it seemed to be such a generous gesture. But when this went on week after week with the previous church often mentioning the difficulties or trials of these other churches I started to get the impression that they might actually be mocking these other "smaller" churches, showing that they were "alpha" enough to not have to compete with such small congregations.

Based upon what I've written so far, I think the only possible path is one of a high level of caution about getting more involved with any church.

 

[tjrevelations]

One thing I wanted to add: there was a very nice family, actually several, that greeted me, introduced me to their family, as I had been a "regular" seated in the same section.

With one family, we chatted several times, at some length. I actually got tired talking they wanted to talk for so long. The next time I saw them however, it all went "silent" and cold. They just stopped greeting me. It was weird.

I saw them again as they volunteer a lot, handing out fliers and offering up name tags. They were super polite but acted like they had never seen me before! It was wild!

Something similar happened with another family. They saw me as a regular chit chatted with me at length on time casually, then the next time, it was like I was a complete stranger! So weird!

Perhaps they felt I was being standoffish? Maybe THEY thought I wasn't friendly enough? We're all adults, we all know what normal interactions and conversations look like, there's always room for individual variations in temperament, but these warm then cold interactions are WAY off.

 

[tjrevelations]

One more story--obviously these interaction in no way shape or form reflect upon the morality or integrity of the staff or church members, they're just strange. We all know what normal/average is, and this ain't it!

....most people had filed out of the sanctuary very quickly. I was one of the last stragglers out. The only people in the hallway were myself and one of the newer pastors, a big, jovial guy.

I made eye contact and was going to say hi and smile if he made eye contact. He didn't. He neither made eye contact nor avoided eye contact. He just kind of looked ahead in a frozen state, kind of like a statue. I gave up on the idea of saying a friendly hello and just walked past!

This church has lots of volunteer greeters so it's likely I have walked past them without making a lot of eye contact or acknowledging them as sufficiently as they may have liked, I certainly recognize that. Sometimes I'm just trying to get from point a to point b and of course there is no disdain for them, I'm just in a slight rush.

But this pastor almost looked shell shocked. I'm at a point where these interactions are almost kind of comical. There's no harm done obviously and I'm going to try to just let it be for what it is: odd but harmless.

Yes, it is strikingly different from what I've seen before at any church but it just makes the church a little quirky, that's all.

 

[com7fy8]

In the small groups, I encountered a couple of group members who were basically mentally ill and monopolized the discussion time to share the most grisly details of violent events they claimed they encountered. It was frightening and bizarre and I am now reluctant to go down this path again.

I think you can talk with a person in church, and see what the person talks about. If the person does not help you with God and growing in Jesus and God's word and how to love in relationships, possibly that person's group likewise will not. But in case someone starts with small talk, you can ask the person how the person is doing with God's word and growing in Jesus; and even be direct that you are interested in sharing in this with people . . . and see what happens

There can be real ones in churches where there are issues; and these can have evening Bible and prayer groups.

And if the preaching does not feed you . . . that could be all you need to know. Possibly we need for God to bring you together with a mature Christian person, and then you can find out where that person goes to church and how that person fellowships during the week.

And be careful about becoming someone who is pointing out how things are wrong. This might be good, at least somehow. But if I am mainly finding things to criticize, this can mean this is what I am ready to do in a church, and therefore I have connected with a place to criticize.

In my case, as I have gotten to praying for how God would have me to love in a church, then I started discovering people who seemed like good examples, and I needed correction so I could share well with them. But what I would say worked out is that I committed to staying with loving, even in dealing with wrong leaders and romantic interests who turned out to be more charm than character. But I needed to have hope for the wrong ones, and keep feeding on the good example of real ones. And with this I would say I have gotten into more real groups, including Sunday School.

 

[Psalm 27]

I remember joining Facebook when it first started. I was a nobody at theological college and a well connected person invited me to 'friend'.
then they blanked me the next day, so i de-friended them.
I think church can be like that. you're of no use until you're 'doing' something for them. That's conditional acceptance...God's love is unconditional.

 

[tjrevelations]

I was never the person to point out how things were wrong. I let most everything slide and tried to be as understanding as possible.

It was only when things started to head severely south, for lack of a better term, that I spoke up. It was in a very polite way of course, I was stonewalled and basically met with aggressive resistance.

Basically, several of the church leaders attempted to humiliate and intimidate me into silence. It's sad but that's the reality of how things work: once a church reaches a certain size, the temptation for ego and pride to block an actual christian response becomes diminished.

Obviously there are endless examples of this documented in media and court records, but I was quite surprised to see a lot of the same dynamics at a "mega church" in a fairly sleep suburban area.

The reality is, there is no complete refuge from power and corruption: it exists within the church as well, you could say it's pervasive.

One can say "don't be the person to complain."

One can also say: "don't be the person to pull the wool over your eyes in the face of corruption and decadence, and there was plenty of that at the mega church.

Naturally, we will always seek community of some kind. The church has always been a place for that. That has diminished over the past 2 years as devilish forces seek to divide and conquer and keep everyone house bound.

I don't believe in that. But I also don't believe in allowing corruption and evil within the church itself to go uncorrected. At the very least it must be noted. But, the previous church felt it could do no wrong, so adios!