I dont think we can bring thoughts captive.What is your opinion?

KingZzub · Jun 11, 2009

Excellent response, Prob.

I have just done this with my son who was scared just now. I explained how to take his thoughts captive. The thoughts still come but he knows how to deal with them. Thoughts come to all of us, but we know how to deal with them.

Blessings,
Ben

nephilimiyr · Jun 11, 2009

I used this verse the yesterday when talking about bondage to sin, maybe it also applies here?

Isaiah 10:27, And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the annointing.

I believe the annointing also destroyes the evil thought or temptation if we stop it from conceiving with a desire in us and submit it to Christ, which is the annointing.

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

nephilimiyr said:
When verse 4 talks about strongholds I mainly see that as strongholds that the enemy, e.i., Satan and his minions set up or create. So when they come at us and tempt us with a thought to establish a sin stronghold within us, we can take that thought that has come to us and stop it in it's tracks before it conceives with a desire that is in us.

James 1:14-15, but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

The moment we are tempted with a thought we hold it captive before it can conceive with our evil desire and ineffect thwart the birth of sin. Thoughts, and or temptations, have to conceive with our desires inorder for there to be sin in us.

I understand.The thread was not what do we do with them.it is against the notion that we can prevent getting them.

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

nhisname said:
All sin starts with a thought. It is up to the individual whether he allows it to be active, let's face it we are human and weak in the flesh. If a sinful thought pops into our head for no apparent reason I believe it is from satan. The Lord not only disiplines us for bad behavior but for entertaining sinful thoughts. I have been guilty of this, I'm afraid. I believe this is why we need to put the full armor of God on and pray for the renewal of mind and for his protection over our thoughts, especially before we pray. Before I started doing this my mind would wander all over the place when trying to pray.

Hi.I dont believe that just because I get,or think a thought,that makes something in life come about.

nephilimiyr · Jun 11, 2009

Rising SON said:
Actually it is pretty clear.Paul was talking about taking on them,their teachings,their thoughts as he was going to see them.

2 Corinthians 10:2
I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world.

He was talking abut them.

12We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise. 13We, however, will not boast beyond proper limits, but will confine our boasting to the field God has assigned to us, a field that reaches even to you.

It's true he was addressing them, but in verse 3 I think he lets us know what exactly he's talking about.

2 Cor. 10:3, For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.

And then he brings up our spiritual weapons, in which he taught in Ephesians 6 saying that our struggles were not against flesh and blood. Paul is clearly refering to our spiritual armor that we use against spiritual forces, not men.

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

probinson said:
Then the title of your OP, "I dont[sic] think we can bring thoughts captive..." is not descriptive of what you're asking.

Of course we all have thoughts. The scripture never intimates anything different.

What the scripture does tell us is what to do with those thoughts; ..take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

No.What your doing is forgetting that we have the mind of Christ,the false apostles did not.If you read the thoughts of the verse,Paul was going to take on the mentality of the unsaved,corrupt minds of the false ones.

Keep in mind.WE have the knowledge of God,they did not.Paul was saying he would fight every corner of their argumants.It has to be.Paul knew he could not control their inner thought processes.But he would certainly make clear to all listeneing,that they were wolves in sheeps clothing.

Read it in other translations too.

NET ©and every arrogant obstacle 1that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ.
NIV
biblegateway 2Co 10:5
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
NASB
biblegateway 2Co 10:5
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
NLT
biblegateway 2Co 10:5
With these weapons we break down every proud argument that keeps people from knowing God. With these weapons we conquer their rebellious ideas, and we teach them to obey Christ.
MSG
biblegateway 2Co 10:5
We use our powerful God-tools for smashing warped philosophies, tearing down barriers erected against the truth of God, fitting every loose thought and emotion and impulse into the structure of life shaped by Christ.
BBE
SABDAweb 2Co 10:5
Putting an end to reasonings, and every high thing which is lifted up against the knowledge of God, and causing every thought to come under the authority of Christ;
NRSV
bibleoremus2Co 10:5
and every proud obstacle raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to obey Christ.
NKJV
biblegateway 2Co 10:5
casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

nephilimiyr · Jun 11, 2009

I don't believe Paul in 2 Cor. 10 is now saying that we can use our spiritual weapons, or armor, against flesh and blood now, or that he was going to.

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

In my opinion,this confirms what Paul was talking about.A mentality,a teaching,an argument,a perception..He was saying the truth of Christ will be made known,down to the smallest detail.

noema 3540

nohma noema

Pronunciation:no'-ay-mah Origin:from 3539 Reference:TDNT - 4:960,636 PrtSpch:n n In Greek:nohma 1, nohmata 5In NET:minds 4, schemes 1, thought 1In AV:mind 4, device 1, thought 1 Count:6Definition:1) a mental perception, thought
2) an evil purpose
3) that which thinks, the mind, thoughts or purposes

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

nephilimiyr said:
I don't believe Paul in 2 Cor. 10 is now saying that we can use our spiritual weapons, or armor, against flesh and blood now, or that he was going to.

Hi.To me it does because it was obviously a spiritual battle,manifest in the flesh.He later in Chapter 11,said they received a diffent gospel,spirit a diffent Jesus.Which again reafirms to me that he was talking about the false ones who did not have the truth as we do.They gave them the deception,it came through them.In my opinion anyway.

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

nephilimiyr said:
It's true he was addressing them, but in verse 3 I think he lets us know what exactly he's talking about.

2 Cor. 10:3, For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.

And then he brings up our spiritual weapons, in which he taught in Ephesians 6 saying that our struggles were not against flesh and blood. Paul is clearly refering to our spiritual armor that we use against spiritual forces, not men.

Yes,but it does come by and through men/flesh.The devil entered flesh,judas.

charityagape · Jun 11, 2009

I'm confused as to why bringing a thought captive would mean preventing bad thoughts from ever happening. How can you capture something that doesn't exist?

JimB · Jun 11, 2009

probinson said:
You're so busy arguing, you got the scripture reference wrong. Again.

Lucky for you, some of us "misguided" people are actually paying attention to help you with such things.

Oh the irony.

2 Corinthians 10:5 (AMP)
[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

Gosh, Pete. Are we straining at gnats or what?

~Jim

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

nephilimiyr · Jun 11, 2009

Ok Rising Son, you're starting to make more sense to me but even if I would say I agree with you I would only include your meaning of the passage with mine, not throw out what I believe the revelation of that passage is and say only your interpretation is correct.

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

nephilimiyr said:
Ok Rising Son, you're starting to make more sense to me but even if I would say I agree with you I would only include your meaning of the passage with mine, not throw out what I believe the revelation of that passage is and say only your interpretation is correct.

Could you please clarify what you mean here?

nephilimiyr · Jun 11, 2009

Rising SON said:
Could you please clarify what you mean here?

I don't think your interpretation on this contradicts my interpretation and vice versa. Neither one proves the other wrong.

I am now considering for myself on whether both can be right.

Rising SON · Jun 11, 2009

nephilimiyr said:
I don't think your interpretation on this contradicts my interpretation and vice versa. Neither one proves the other wrong.

I am now considering for myself on whether both can be right.

I understand.You are an open minded man.Open thoughts?

map4 · Jun 11, 2009

Rising SON said:
I understand.The thread was not what do we do with them.it is against the notion that we can prevent getting them.

where have you heard the notion that we can prevent getting them?

I've never heard anyone say that...

Andy S. Wright · Jun 11, 2009

I think the confusion is in the definition of the word "captive". The idea here is not to prevent bad thoughts from ever occurring. We're carnal by nature and that nature will rear its ugly head more often than not. The definition of "captive" implies action taken once the thought has occurred.

It is one thing to think a bad thought. It is another thing entirely to entertain those thoughts. Once we begin to entertain thoughts, that's when the real trouble begins.

That's why Jesus taught looking at a woman to lust after her was the same as committing fornication. He was trying to draw the line in the thought processes instead of in the bedroom. Most people would reason the sin is in the action. God knows that sin is birthed in the brain (heart?) and needs to be dealt with there before it becomes action.

So, we are instructed to capture our thoughts before they become actions.

probinson · Jun 11, 2009

Rising SON said:
No.What your doing is forgetting that we have the mind of Christ,the false apostles did not.If you read the thoughts of the verse,Paul was going to take on the mentality of the unsaved,corrupt minds of the false ones.

Just because we have the mind of Christ does not mean everyone of our thoughts is copasetic and completely in line with the Word and knowledge of God.

Those thoughts, whether they be mine yours or ours, need to be taken captive.

map4 · Jun 11, 2009

Does that mean I have to wait around for someone to come and take captive my thoughts that are wrong?

Or are we talking about only the thoughts of the unsaved or the false ones?

I do have the mind of Christ. But I know that not all thoughts I have are His thoughts.
Unless He really wants to hurt my husband when I get mad at him

I dont think we can bring thoughts captive.What is your opinion?

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