I don't recall any prayer in school

Doctrine1st

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I am in my 40s, I went to school in both the Los Angeles school districts, and in Tacoma Washington, and there was never any school sanctioned prayer. Never in school; never at sporting events, never at assemblies. I remember there being what we called a "Bible Bus" after school on Fridays were they gave free candy at the end of their evangelism, but even that wasn't parked on school grounds.

So how many who went to public schools recall school sanctioned prayers?
 

Doctrine1st

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xMinionX said:
I never did. Prayer, religion, sex ed, evolution, none of that 'controversial' stuff was really a big deal.
You mean you there was school sanctioned prayer, but you never participated? Mind if I ask what part of the country you went to school?
 
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Billnew

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Prayer was taken out of school inthe late 60's,
that would be when we were 5 years old or less.

I don't remember any game prayer, or school function prayer, but I didn't go to very many functions. I think I remember a preacher coming to speak at school once.
But it was about doing right and wrong, responsibility type speech.

I wasn't a Christian then, and any talk of religion was just ignored by me. I always followed Jesus just not in organized religion. (Parents were burned by organized religion.)

I went to school in Arizona.
 
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Doctrine1st

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Billnew said:
Prayer was taken out of school inthe late 60's,
that would be when we were 5 years old or less.

I don't remember any game prayer, or school function prayer, but I didn't go to very many functions. I think I remember a preacher coming to speak at school once.
But it was about doing right and wrong, responsibility type speech.

I wasn't a Christian then, and any talk of religion was just ignored by me. I always followed Jesus just not in organized religion. (Parents were burned by organized religion.)

I went to school in Arizona.
Ah gotcha, I think I will take this question up with folks I know a little under then, well, me and you. :)
 
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xMinionX

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Doctrine1st said:
You mean you there was school sanctioned prayer, but you never participated? Mind if I ask what part of the country you went to school?

I went to a school in NY about two hours north of the city. No, there was never school sanctioned prayer. We had things like moments of silence, but never actual prayer. Student led Christian organizations were allowed to meet in classrooms after dismissal, but I never had any problem with that (and, as far as I remember, nobody else did either).

Had there been state sanctioned prayer, I probably would have participated in it even though I was not religious at all. I wasn't the type of kid to rock the boat, and I remember the hazing a few kids got when they refused to say the pledge (mostly from fellow students). That's one of the reasons I'm against it now. I know that, realistically, it won't be a 'voluntary' thing. Not from the students end.
 
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MachZer0

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Doctrine1st said:
I am in my 40s, I went to school in both the Los Angeles school districts, and in Tacoma Washington, and there was never any school sanctioned prayer. Never in school; never at sporting events, never at assemblies. I remember there being what we called a "Bible Bus" after school on Fridays were they gave free candy at the end of their evangelism, but even that wasn't parked on school grounds.

So how many who went to public schools recall school sanctioned prayers?
You should probably talk to people who went to school in the South. I went to school in Southern California through the 50's and 60's and the closest thing we had to school prayer was Released Time Education
 
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Billnew

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In Arizona,
We had moments of silence, but they stopped that because it was decided this was prayer time. And made kids that didn't pray feel uncomfortable.

My kids still say the pledge every morning in school.
I think the pledge should be recited and taught to what it means.
 
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StMatthew2429

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[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]What Happened When the Praying Stopped[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]ALEDO, TX (FR) - How did the removal of voluntary prayer from the schools of the United States affect our nation as a whole? That question has been answered in detail by a research company in Texas which has gathered and tabulated statistics from hundreds of sources relating to the rates of moral decline in America. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Specialty Research Associates, under the direction of David Barton, has released a report entitled America: To Pray or Not to Pray which uses over 100 pages of graphs and statistical analysis to prove that crime, venereal disease, premarital sex, illiteracy, suicide, drug use, public corruption, and other social ills began a dramatic increase after the Engel vs. Vitale Supreme Court decision was made in 1962 which banned school prayer. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Prayer in schools prior to 1962 was utilized in school districts all over the U.S. in many varieties. Some teachers used extemporaneous prayers, simply expressing their thoughts and desires; others implemented structured prayers, such as the Lord's Prayer or the 23rd Psalm, or others approved by local school boards. New York students prayed each day: "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee and beg Thy blessing over us, our parents, our teachers, and our nation." It was this simple prayer which came under fire and went to the Supreme Court for the landmark decision. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Says David Barton, "It is impossible to know how many of the 39 million children were involved in daily verbal prayers, but most accounts indicate that a clear majority of the students voluntarily participated in daily school prayer. Is it possible that the prayers that were being offered by these children and their teachers across the nation actually had any measurable, tangible effect?" [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It was this question that led Barton to uncover the statistical proof that the removal of prayer did indeed take its toll on America. Below are just a few of the examples featured in Barton's report.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]A. Young People[/SIZE][/FONT]​
  • [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]1. For 15 years before 1963 pregnancies in girls ages 15 through 19 years had been no more than 15 per thousand After 1963 pregnancies increased 187% in the next 15 years. [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]2. For younger girls, ages 10 to 14 years, pregnancies since 1963 are up 553%.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]3. Before 1963 sexually transmitted diseases among students were 400 per 100,000. Since 1963, they were up 226% in the next 12 years.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]B. The Family [/SIZE][/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]1. Before 1963 divorce rates had been declining for 15 years. After 1963 divorces increased 300% each year for the next 15 years.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]2. Since 1963 unmarried people living together is up 353%[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]3. Since 1963 single parent families are up 140%.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]4. Since 1963 single parent families with children are up 160%.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]C. Education[/SIZE][/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]1. The educational standard of measure has been the SAT scores. SAT scores had been steady for many years before 1963. From 1963 they rapidly declined for 18 consecutive years, even though the same test has been used since 1941.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]2. In 1974-75 the rate of decline of the SAT scores decreased, even though they continued to decline. That was when there was an explosion of private religious schools. There were only 1000 Christian schools in 1965. Between 1974 to 1984 they increased to 32,000. [/SIZE][/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]a. That could have an impact if the private schools had higher SAT scores. In checking with the SAT Board it was found that indeed the SAT scores for private schools were nearly 100 points higher than public schools.[/SIZE][/FONT]
      [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]b. In fact the scores were at the point where the public schools had been before their decline started in 1963 when prayer and Bible reading/ instruction was removed from the schools.[/SIZE][/FONT]
      [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]c. The scores in the public schools were still declining.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]3. Of the nation's top academic scholars, three times as many come from private religious schools, which operate on one-third the funds as do the public schools.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]D. The Nation[/SIZE][/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]1. Since 1963 violent crime has increased 544%.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]3. Illegal drugs have become an enormous & uncontrollable problem.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]2. The nation has been deprived of an estimated 30 million citizens through legal abortions just since 1973.[/SIZE][/FONT]


    [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]http://www.inplainsite.org/what_happened_when_the_praying.html
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
 
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LogicChristian

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StMatthew2429 said:
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]What Happened When the Praying Stopped[/SIZE][/FONT]

Where is the data to show that any of this is a cause of the removal of public prayer from school? One of the first things any student learns in statistics is that correlation very often does not equal causality.

Also, many schools didn't have public prayer before 1962. Can you show us evidence that these performed more poorly than schools that had public praying?
 
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bammertheblue

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Hint: just because two things happened at about the same time, does not mean they are related. (Correlation does not equal causation). Even if those statistics are true (and it's pretty easy to manipulate statistics to get them to say what you want them to say), that doesn't mean that when sanctioned prayer stopped, it CAUSED teen pregnancy and lower SAT scores.
It's sort of like saying that because my birthday is October 17, 1983, and there was a large earthquake in San Francisco on my 6th birthday, that my 6th birthday caused the earthquake. It makes no logical sense and just makes you look silly.
 
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The only prayer in school that I've seen takes place before sporting events. It is only done by the students. The coaches all walk out probably because they feel that they don't want to be reprimanded in any possible way for being in the same room.
 
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Doctrine1st said:
I am in my 40s, I went to school in both the Los Angeles school districts, and in Tacoma Washington, and there was never any school sanctioned prayer. Never in school; never at sporting events, never at assemblies. I remember there being what we called a "Bible Bus" after school on Fridays were they gave free candy at the end of their evangelism, but even that wasn't parked on school grounds.

So how many who went to public schools recall school sanctioned prayers?

When I was in elementary school in a small, rural town in East Tennessee, my homeroom teacher started the day with prayer and a bible story. This would have been in the late 70s.

In high school, we had prayer during graduation and football games, and they were specifically Christian prayers, ending with "in Jesus' name we pray." There was also a bible study class and prayer group but they were voluntary and met before the start of regular classes.
 
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