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i dont know anymore.

Endure2

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i dont know why im making this post really, just thought i might should.

alot has happened and changed over the past year for me, alot of ups and downs, alot of choices good and bad, im not the same person i was 1 year ago.
no where near.

i dont know if i believe in God anymore, i know i use to post here alot and alot of people liked what i posted, but i honestly dont feel the way i use to anymore, its not like it use to be, im certainly not who i used to be.

i dont think i believe this anymore...
and even all the recent reconvertions i made recently, trying to make my life right again... i just dont think i can do this anymore, it feels like im living someone elses life, like a life full of cliches and idealism and lofty thoughts, sometimes it doesnt seem real. sometimes it seems like i try to find God but im really beginning to think no ones there, its like i sense that no one is really there.

im just not who i use to be, and a large part of me doesnt want to go back, i feel likes its all a bunch of grand stories, like im being fooled into a playing a part of a grand scheme that isnt real.
this is honestly how i feel right now, it was the worst yesterday.

i tried to repent of my sin and ask Jesus to help me, but it seemed like he wasnt there. and all of a sudden its like it dawned on me, that God isnt real, it was never real....

and the life i use to live and things i use to fully believe, they all seem like a big sharade now... a bunch of fools dreams.
it seems like reality and common sense is telling me to walk away from all this.

i havent made up my mind about anything, im scared of alot, scared to face my christian friends becuase i dont want to hear what they'll say, and scared to walk away from christianity becuase its all ive ever known and a part of me feels like im betraying my oldest and longest friend, but its really beginning to seem like its just a hoax and its all for nothing.

i just dont know anything anymore.
i dont believe anything whole heartedly anymore.
but nosticism doesnt look so foolish to me anymore. i used to condemn it, but now, im this close to falling into it head over heals.
 

angelwind

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angelwind said:
I can see something has happened to you...just plain and clear, Who is Jesus to you?

We can get Him mixed up with our ideals...get involved with them...and miss the Person of Jesus Himself.


The Lord can and has dismanteled a lot of my "ideals"...some are just thrown out now...And the plain simple Gospel is taking center stage...very simple stuff...not complicated.

You "should be different" Endure2, we are supposed to grow in the grace and knowledge of God. I'm thinking you are ok....:hug:
 
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vinc

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These are natural thoughts at some point of time in life for any christian (who had ups and downs, and made good and bad choices in life). I think you are allright but scared what people might think about you now and about your beliefs and opinions which you have right now. Especially what your christian friends might think about you. The religions christians may write you off (probably as a backslider). The spiritual and experienced christians may encourage you and would be more comforting to you as they have passed through similar experiences in their life too. Moreover, we may never be accepted completely by all the christians all the time in our life.

Maybe you were in some kind of self-created illusion before and are just coming out of that.

I think you are maturing and thinking more practical and hungering for the reality. This is really a positive development in our life although we may be scared of it.

It is better to walk away from the "organized religion" part of christianity which is nothing but trash. All spiritual christians walk away from being religious at some point in their life after going through similar thoughts as yours.

You are not betraying anyone. You are not betraying Father-God nor Lord Jesus Christ. I read in a christian mystical classic "The Clouds of Unknowing" that God leaves us to face the ups and downs in life in order that we grow matured. During this time we are bound to feel whether God is real and is present or not. But, whenever we really need Him, He is there to help us. We may also be in need of a new or fresh encounter with God (or a fresh Anointing of the Holy Spirit) in order that we go up spiritual higher and closer to Him.

During these times when our faith is perturbed (which is but natural for any christian at some point(s) in life) it is better to continue reading, meditating and following God's Word as much as possible with us for His Word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path. And, we are bound to be a lot safer as long as we retain the knowledge of God and His ways within our heart/mind. During these times, His Word (and/or christian spiritual devotions or books) will be like "Streams in the Desert" and "Springs in the Valley" for us. I think this is how it would be for a christian entering into deeper christian life and we are bound to be misunderstood by religious christians and all those who have not gone through similar experiences of ups and downs in life. In fact, it is from these "Deep Valley experiences" or "Dry Desert experiences" that we grow stronger spiritually and as christians. We may long for those Mountain Top experiences which we had earlier in our christian life, but it is the Valley experiences which help us to grow. If we do not go through such valley experiences we may never be able to genuinely help, encourage or comfort our fellow christians in their spiritual growth. Parents give less and less help as their child grows but whenever the child badly needs its Parents, they are there to help and guide.

Therefore, we walk by faith and not by sight or feelings. We may make some bad choices but they are only going to make us wiser and more careful in future. Even if we may forget the whole of The Bible and may not believe of it anymore, let us never forget the 2 commandments Love for the Infinite Creator and Love for His Creation, and then most of our decisions would most probably be justified.

I consider Gnosticism as a good read unlike some christians. In fact, i believe a few of them like the "Sophia of Jesus Christ" which helps me to get a grander view of God and His Creation.

I do not know whether these inputs help you in anyway as i am an ordinary christian who has had only a little bit of christian experience in life. Nevertheless i hope the best for you as a fellow human.
 
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IKTCA

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Brother Lee,

I am again at the point where I also confess I don't know any more. That I don't know any more comes from the realization that all my efforts and godly sorrows (because of me and also because of my believing brothers) didn't change either me or my brothers. Changes must be given to me (and my brothers) as a gift.

I still dream of the days when I first called Jesus Savior and the next several years. I was always joyous like a bride before the groom. The little understanding and wisdom I have learned since then have brought me much sadness and despair; sadness because I am not up to the understanding and wisdom; despair because the church, just like me, is rebellious to the very words of God.

But I know one thing: I don't want to go back to when I didn't know Jesus. I was deceived. My whole life was in deception.

I remember you in my prayers.

Rupert
 
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angelwind

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iktca said:
Brother Lee,

I am again at the point where I also confess I don't know any more. That I don't know any more comes from the realization that all my efforts and godly sorrows (because of me and also because of my believing brothers) didn't change either me or my brothers. Changes must be given to me (and my brothers) as a gift.

I still dream of the days when I first called Jesus Savior and the next several years. I was always joyous like a bride before the groom. The little understanding and wisdom I have learned since then have brought me much sadness and despair; sadness because I am not up to the understanding and wisdom; despair because the church, just like me, is rebellious to the very words of God.

But I know one thing: I don't want to go back to when I didn't know Jesus. I was deceived. My whole life was in deception.

I remember you in my prayers.

Rupert


This is true of me too brother Rupert...when I think of what you said...even after all the mistakes I have made...unbalanced teachings...my own sins and rebellions...I don't want to be without Jesus either...it was worth it all...to struggle thru and make it to a better place today...knowing much lies ahead...but resting more fully in the finished work of the cross and the love of God.

Looking forward to my eternal home...more and more everyday. Jesus is more wonderful every day...even now, even here.

Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.

For if the word spoken thru angels proved stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward,

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,

God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will.

Hebrews 2:1-4
 
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Endure2

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thankyou everyone,

angelwind
thankyou, your so kind.
the truth is, i just dont know who Jesus is anymore. my feelings and struggles lately havent caused me to come to a new idea about him, but just to become indiffrent about, i just havent thought alot about it.
this is pushing me to be oblivious to it all, not come up with a new theology.
i just dont want to live a life of intensity for a cause anymore. i just want to relax and be free from all the stuff i have to do make it through.
i dont want to read my bible anymore, i dont want to pray everyday anymore.
and i know some may say, well you dont have to "do things" but ive always believed how "how can you ask so much of God, and not have to do things?"
ive always believed my requestes and hopes would be disqualified if i didnt do all these things.

im not allowed to be a christian if i dont resist lust, pray everyday, read everyday, strive for holiness, try to live up to the ideal christian person, try to be perfect... am i?
i never considered it so.

and i know for some people thats a simple answer, "no you dont have to do those things to be a christian" but if i didnt do those things, i cant possibly believe im secure in him... becuase that means i dont love him.
and the truth is, i dont want to do those things anymore.
its just christianity obligates me to do so many things that im tired of doing,
and as i didnt want it anymore, it all melted away, and Gods meaningfulness in my life with it.

im not attacking christianity, i dont think i ever could becuase i have too much respect for it even if i one stay walk away from it, its all ive ever known till now... i just dont feel the way i use to about these things.


ikta

well, ive never lived a life when i didnt know Jesus, i just havent.
living for Jesus is all ive ever known, i dont know what the other side is like.
doing all the things Jesus requires of me is what doesnt look good to me anymore.
it just seems like its all idealism, doing more than i really have to, for nothing.
it feels like its just taking so much from me.

i know that wasnt a good response to you, i like you.
if this is real, i hope you live it happily for the rest of your life.
i hope you come to some closure in your struggles.

winc
wow, you said so much that meant so much.
thats certainly one way to see it.

i just dont believe the things im losing hope in are the "trash" of christianity, ive always believed it was the christianity.
and its not even just doing the things, i just dont believe in it anymore like i use to.
i went to church yesterday and my pastor preached a great sermon that talked alot about the things that im going through now. like how theres only death and destruction outside of christianity.

but wouldnt he say that? sure he would, he believes this to the death.
hes a wonderful man, but i dont believe what he does anymore, i dont believe the basics that prove it all to him, like hes does, anymore.
i cant just take his word for it.
and during the sermon i tried to ask things like "God if your real, if this is real, then let me see it, prove it to me, so that im not just taking someones word for it, and so im not just accepting something that seems so perfectly constructed"
becuase in Christianity there is an answer to everything, there is.
and thats what scares me, no matter how far i go, the bible will always have something that answers me and puts me back under the "deceived" catagory.
ill never be able to argue with the bible, i dont how anyone could have possibly made it all without God.
and as bad as this sounds, but part of me doesnt want to believe it anymore
and when i reach out for God himself, the real person behind it all, right now im not finding anything. not anything that proves it to me.



to everyone.

honestly, i feel like any good christian would call me a big baby and tell me to stop looking for "nice people to make me feel good". part of me condemns me becuase im just being immature and weak. but im not sure its true anymore either, and i cant just take their word for it.

if i am to be a christian, im going to need an experience like saul of tarsus had. im tired of living off nicely constructed apologetics and ideas.
if God is real, hell come and save me himself and show himself to me wont he? hell understand my doubts and confusions wont he?
if hes real, i sure hope he will. i dont think anything else will do it anymore.

but i think the bible says i cant ask such a thing, it says to come to God or ask of God or please God, i must have already chosen to have and use faith.
but... what if its not real? that doesnt give me any chance to ever see that its not.
the only way you can ask him to reveal himself to you, is by making a choice to believe in him before hand... so even if it never was real, you still believe and eventually youll find something that enforces that because you already believe.

it doesnt give me much a chance does it?
if a lack of faith causes me to be blind from the truth, how will this idea ever let me live in peace without him?

im not attacking christianity, but do you know what im saying?
real or not, it doesnt really give me a choice or a chance to be anything else..... but if its made up, why would it?

like my friend thomas who doesnt believe once said, "its a fool proof story isnt it? "
 
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queenm04

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It sounds like transition to another level to me. Looks like u a moving to a point where you are going to hav an aeiral view of belief systems, & make an informed decision on what to believe.


May Adonai guide you in Your choice. Said in good faith!


I was put in a situation where i had to choose my religion again, and i chose Elohim again not because it sounded reak or its all i knew, but i believe most of it is because i enjoy the so called "stories";) as they correlate. To me the bible is more mathematical. I make mistakes now and then, but i always do a come back. I believe this is so true,


the nearer a man lives to God the more intensely has he to mourn over his own evil heart; and the more his Master honours him in His service, the more also doth the evil of the flesh vex and tease him day by day.


Will be praying for you. . .
 
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holo

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Thank you so much for being honest, Endure2!
Keep that honesty.
Endure2 said:
im not allowed to be a christian if i dont resist lust, pray everyday, read everyday, strive for holiness, try to live up to the ideal christian person, try to be perfect... am i?
No, but you're allowed into God's prescence.

I've found that when I've been honest with my faith and my doubt, that's when God has really given me faith.
I realize it would obviously be pretty pointless for me to say "do this and that" and God will give you faith, since your problem is that you don't really believe anymore. But I will say that you can put God to the test. You can lay aside all your doubts and all your faith and leave it up to God, just let it all go. If he's real, he's able to give you the faith you need, right? The God you're not sure you believe in, has said himself that no man comes to God unless he pulls him. So in that respect you can relax, I think.

You want truth, don't you? Even if it hurts, even if your entire world view threatens to crumble. It's scary as hell (quite literally), isn't it? I say keep being honest, don't cling to the things you've been brought up to believe just because you're scared of the alternative. The good thing in all of this is that if/when you get your faith back -or a completely new faith- it will be a work of God and not your own, or merely a result of your upbringing.
In any case this is all a positive thing you're going through (but then I'm gradually and consciously becoming more and more of a positive person).

Let us know how it goes.
 
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SoulFly51

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I don't really know what to write - other than I've been where you are as far as having serious doubts to the point of not believing, but when it was all over and the dust had settled my faith came out stronger than it had ever been before.

I don't just believe that God is real, I know that God is real. I'll pray for you.
 
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Pilgrim1951

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Brother Lee, I think you are tired. Worn out. Hauling that cross up the hill, nailing yourself to it, waiting for something to happen. It all takes it out of you, doesn't it? Don't think that I am making fun of you or being flippant, because I'm not. We have all done the same thing and at some point have had to deal with our belief system. In my case, my personal theology fell completely apart and I was left with nothing. That is: nothing apart from Jesus. I thank God that you have come to this crossroads in your walk with Him. This is when it really gets exciting - when the dust settles, as brother WesWoodell so aptly put it, you will trully be a new creature in Christ Jesus. Highly intelligent people, such as yourself always have more questions. Sometimes the intellect can get in the way of faith, but once convinced - there is nothing more powerful than an intelligent, "it's been proven to me and this is how..." testimony. Right now, this probably sounds like a big yawn to you, but "joy comes in the morning". You are in the fire now, honey, and you haven't yet felt the flames, but you will. Just remember this (even if you don't really believe it right now), Jesus already hauled that cross up the hill, was nailed to it, took every sin we had, have and will have and killed all of it, then after it was all over - He had bought us a new life and now He is saying to you, "Come to me, you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

God bless you kiddo, you are in my prayers, and you are precious in His sight.
 
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angelwind

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Pilgrim1951 said:
Brother Lee, I think you are tired. Worn out. Hauling that cross up the hill, nailing yourself to it, waiting for something to happen. It all takes it out of you, doesn't it? Don't think that I am making fun of you or being flippant, because I'm not. We have all done the same thing and at some point have had to deal with our belief system. In my case, my personal theology fell completely apart and I was left with nothing. That is: nothing apart from Jesus. I thank God that you have come to this crossroads in your walk with Him. This is when it really gets exciting - when the dust settles, as brother WesWoodell so aptly put it, you will trully be a new creature in Christ Jesus. Highly intelligent people, such as yourself always have more questions. Sometimes the intellect can get in the way of faith, but once convinced - there is nothing more powerful than an intelligent, "it's been proven to me and this is how..." testimony. Right now, this probably sounds like a big yawn to you, but "joy comes in the morning". You are in the fire now, honey, and you haven't yet felt the flames, but you will. Just remember this (even if you don't really believe it right now), Jesus already hauled that cross up the hill, was nailed to it, took every sin we had, have and will have and killed all of it, then after it was all over - He had bought us a new life and now He is saying to you, "Come to me, you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

God bless you kiddo, you are in my prayers, and you are precious in His sight.


Praise the Lord!!!!
 
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Endure2

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thanks everyone,

for your kind and thoughtful words, everyones post meant something to me and i consider them all.
part of me just wants to go away and enjoy myself, and the other part of me thinks theirs too much that could be at risk here, that i need to try God again.
atleast try and see... i cant say he wasnt real if i never tried him ya know?

im going to search for God again and see what happens, im going to try, basicly becuase im scared of having all the things the bible says happens to sinners happen to me.

ill keep in touch, thanx.
and id appreciate your prayers though its only a request not a demand, if its real it will help me see it.
 
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angelwind

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Endure2 said:
thanks everyone,

for your kind and thoughtful words, everyones post meant something to me and i consider them all.
part of me just wants to go away and enjoy myself, and the other part of me thinks theirs too much that could be at risk here, that i need to try God again.
atleast try and see... i cant say he wasnt real if i never tried him ya know?

im going to search for God again and see what happens, im going to try, basicly becuase im scared of having all the things the bible says happens to sinners happen to me.

ill keep in touch, thanx.
and id appreciate your prayers though its only a request not a demand, if its real it will help me see it.

I will pray for...so are several others. :hug: :hug: :hug: :thumbsup: :groupray:
 
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Starr

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Endure2,

I wish share you a few posts I wrote when my only daughter passed away 6 months ago (she just turned 6 years old when she died).

I was devastated completely and utterly devestated. But often we find comfort in knowing others in Christ have the same exact feelings and fears. I will copied a few of my posts for you so you can "hear" what I was feeling because I have been walking in Christ for 15 years and joyfully so and then there was the "sound of silence" when I needed God the most, I could not find Him. My life was ripped from me and was completely dark and my thoughts ran along the same lines as yours and I wanted you to find comfort hearing your thoughts resounding as my own. Forgive me for it's lenghth. Its ok to be where you are, wherever you are He is there.





**Post 1 (Desparate, just lost my daughter two weeks before)

Please forgive me, I need it from you all, I cant think straight or function and I have actually thought seriously of commiting myself...So I'm not in my right mind at all, I know this and need you guys to understand that I mean no hurt to any of you, I simply cannot function as a human being, I dont want to drag my black cloud around, or hurt anyone, I am really having more of a difficult time with this then I could ever have imagined. The silence of God is deafening, the darkness is overwhelming, my sorrow feels like it is possible to actually die from a broken heart. I feel like I'm being completely overtaken by everything. With feelings such as this its hard to be around others, their sunshine makes my darkness harder to bear in myself.


**Post 2 (cant come out of the dark place)


I'm SO sorry I havent gotten back to you all, I'm so so sorry... I mean no hurt, I'm not like that normally, you know I usually respond but I cant move (literally) I'm completely overtaken, I admit it openly. The only thing I have the energy to think on is death not life, I want to go home, I want to leave this world so desparately its consuming every thought. The Spring mocks me and the Sun hurts my eyes, the days are too long and the nights are too short. I just want to curl up in bed and go to sleep and never wake up again, is how I've been feeling. I feel like one without faith or hope, not even a microscopic measure of either. I'm a big black cloud without rain and a complete drag to be around, I might as well keep my darkness to myself to spread it around would be fruitless.

Thank you for your prayers but I think I'm one of those people the scriptures speak of who are reserved for the blackest darkness forever, theres not too much that can be done under that inditement. I think I'm one of those you should not pray for, "As I think so I am" perhaps has truth in it for me.

No words can describe this place, I can only appologize to God for all I am, not knowing where I went wrong, admitting what I thought was sight was blindness and can only hope for His mercy. I hope He is as good as I had hoped He is but right now I am completely terrified of Him.



**Post 3 (Still in the dark place, afraid and angry I want to die)

Simply put... I want to die, I need no sympathy or mercy from anyone save God to forgive me for NOT being the "grandeoso testimony" whether it was required or not, its just not IN me. My daughter is my baby, not some inanimate "test" to jerk my strings by in some test for someone elses amusement to get some "high score" on faithfulness, she was a SOUL very precious to me and any "test" does not even come into the equation to losing her loving precious soul in my life and everything in her that was encompassed in her little person, my flesh and blood.

I dont need pity or expect it from anyone, I want to DIE, unfortunately the methods used are not desirable to my flesh, though Helium inhalation might work, your body after unconsciousness seeks to survive and thrashes to remove the mask. electricution in the tub will not take you but simply burn you, people have tried it, pills often have you vomitting and ridding your body of the toxin before its completed its work thats why most suicide attempts do not work, appearing to be "attempts" without commitment. My problem is this... I will not by my own hand take my life, but if one can ride a Harley without a helmet (having a death wish) I can swim in a thunderstorm, or refuse medical assistance or medications to prolong life here, afterall God is in complete charge let me live in full acceptance of that fact.

To die is GAIN is that not scriptural? Why fight against the inevitable? No pity needed here, I want OUT!!!! I'm JEALOUS of anyone dying, I can't help that feeling, I want it more then anything else, if God would allow. My drive is gone, I'm finished, I'm only waiting to leave its the only thing I desire right now. If my daughter was still here I would most certainly not feel that way, but shes not. I'm her mother, I have this intense instinct to go to her, its IN ME to do that.

Death seems like a more likely prayer to be answered. I prayed for my daughters life and received the answer "death" perhaps death is the right prayer because both are ours, is this not true?

I'm on the floor... no I'm lower then that, I want no pity, no compassion, no words, nothing but TO DIE and if to die is gain, I ask my freinds to pray that God would take me away, theres really no point in my wasted life, I'm dead while I live anyway (being truthful here). I cannot handle this sorrow, I'm not able to, simply cant do it, I've tried, I can think of nothing else day and night but dying, basically chit chatting about it or expressing myself or my greif, is the stupidest thing I could do, it does nothing for me and nothing for those around me.

I figure playing in my pool during severe lightning storms might heighten my odds, my daughter always loved playing in the rain, that would be kinda neat, I don't think I will love the "feeling" of going out with a "bang" but it would not be by my own hand, I could think of less painful ways to "go out" without 180,000 volts of lightning frying my insides. It causes me to wonder about why God cut short Jesus' suffering on the cross, when they found Him on the cross it amazed them that Christ had died so soon because they went to break His legs to make Him die faster, but I'm sure thats was only because God said none of His bones would not be broken and hanging the next day would not be permitted by law, but I'm not sure whether God had compassion on His suffering Son or that Gods law would be broken? I havent figured that one out yet. Yet this question is (right now) at the bottom of my list, I have other more pressing questions of the heart I desire to ask but it seems like those of the heart are left unadressed while those of the head are consistently fed, I "dont get it". I have a black book and a brain (of which uses only 10% of its capacity) and that 10% I need to crucify and live from a circumcised heart that asks the questions we are instructed TO ASK but THESE QUESTIONS are NEVER ANSWERED! Am I circumcised in my heart? I havent a clue anymore, but I would think not if I'm not "hearing" so I'm deaf. I'm not "perceiving" so I am blind. I'm faithless therefore I cannot please God anyway.

Feels despairing being one of "those" who mourns without any hope, unlike "those" who live victoriously in Jesus Christ... thats NOT ME, unfortunately I'm a vessel fitted for destruction and I'm devastated by my own soul, I wished I have never been born, I had no choice like the rest of you but I simply am not "grasping it". I'm one who doesn't understand and the enemy took it all away and destined to darkness. I do not know the God of love I thought I knew. My daughter is not going to be received back to me in three days like His was to Himself I wonder if He truly understands our pain because He lives in glory always seeing both sides of here and now and eternity but I cannot and yet if I had eyes to see that which is invisible (given just a glimpse, a simple peek) maybe I could be sustained but right now I don't even want the energy to be even that, I don't even want to get better, I really want to die, thats where I'm at. I only ask of you guys to pray for that reality to become my own, thats all.



**Post 5 ( 4 months later, coming to myself, after very long season)

In my despair I ask the most honest questions. Its like were not satisfied with knowing what "the book" facts are we desire HIS LIFE in and through us but we might have some kind of illusion as to what His life or form would look like when manifesting. I took the route of "all knowledge" but without love I am nothing, then gloried in the mysteries (which there are many that can be known) but without love are nothing. To surrender ones life to the flames (even to death itself) without love, one is nothing. The same goes for what "appears" to be love by giving all my possessions to the poor etc but without love be nothing. Looks like an impossible feat. But I think in getting it "wrong" and walking through these things somehow we will one day discover what we desire in Him. I can't tell you what it looks like or profess I have found it or walk in it, you actually might find that comforting (I don't know) but I make no claims to greatness but struggle through many defeats. It bothers me as it does you, but God sees our hearts. HE is the maker of these hearts, HE needs to work in us to will and to do HIS good pleasure. If He doesn't do it, us being left to ourselves certainly can't do it. Been there, still there, but has me perplexed, that even though His promises seem unfulfilled in me that I still have faith in Him despite the outworking evidence of it all.




**Post 6 (Six months later my post of thanks and what I learned in the process)

I checked back into my daughters memorial by chance and I found your message there and I would have never known who this kind person was and I had no way to say "Thank you". I am touched because sometimes you feel its so "senseless" and you never know if our own lives touch others lives and sometimes feel as if we make no difference at all, and I believe thats where we find blessings in this life by touching someone "somewhere" but usually we have no idea who these persons are. Its helpful to think, " maybe I am needed on this earth" or that my child (who was so hidden from the world) meant something to "someone" or did in her passing.... I don't know, but I know we probrobly all feel this way at times, and sometimes we feel that "something more" is there, that theres more then just "being here" like were a bunch of lost children ourselves finding our way back to who we will become in the end and yet the beginning of "the other shore". Somehow we affect each other, in sharing our pains, sorrows, joy, doubts and even our despairs by meeting someone who can redirect our focus on what life is all about. I think its being there for one another and that doesn't mean that we know everyone at a personal level. There are few that have stood by me through my despair, it was hard for them to do anything because they had not gone through this way before and sometimes its "we" who need the compassion the most of all but are the very ones required to give it, strange huh? But I met one freind who stood by me, I swear she was an Angel sent from Him to comfort me with His presence when I felt like the presence of God departed out of my life, and during longest season of sorrow in my life a freindship was built as God knit us together. To build anything in a storm is an act of God Himself because those who were the closest to me before this time of complete desolation hit me could do nothing. It was her suffering that enabled her to meet me where I was and the power of Gods love to restore me, and that is exactly what God does and what He did.

So many times we might forget that posts posted on the internet are written by "people" who have hearts that bleed like our own who have no where else to go and are reaching out for compassion, we mustn't ever think our loving words don't count as much here as they do anywhere else for that matter.

I'm always taken back at by the most beautiful people I have met on the internet, like rare gems, and those here with broken hearts. Among the broken hearted? Absolutely. Do you know "diamonds" (the most valuable of gems) are formed "under the earth" under extreme pressure? Sounds like "depression" takes one "under" to a place where something in us is formed in the pressing darkness. Somehow when you return you have something valuable to pour forth from your inmost being, this I find true in more cases then not, also a power to relate, encourage and extend mercy and compassion, to me they are valuable inner qualities of the divine nature which benefit all those in broken places. But what do we feel like when in this process? Like darkness has covered the face of our hearts and we cry out on "The Cross" we feel nailed to as though God has forsaken us, yet in reality God is remaking us. Its the only thing that makes sense, I need it to make sense, I think we all do. The man of sorrows and aquainted with greif has become known through my own. Sorrowful to the point of death... something in us dies as we are given over to it. So death works in us that life works in others is quickened that through our sufferings the comfort we receive is a gift that we are given to comfort others in their time of need. Through these people the life of Christ is both given and received and that is because we had a "need". Christ is "naked" we cover Him in and through each other, and our trials are a trial to others not to ourselves. Paul knew the same, and they received him, we too receive those in need. "When I was sick, when I was in prison, when I was naked" When I LACKED in the sufferings of Christ that spilled over into my life filling up in myself these things you gave to me something I needed, see? We judge ourselves as forsaken but we are not but we enter into the fellowship of our Lords suffering and His cry (Our very Lord of whom we profess) felt forsaken by God and expressed the words that would echo in our very souls when we felt the same. It is comforting to know He has been where I was and will again restore as He has my very soul in His presence.


I hope this helps, knowing others have gone through darkness and have had the same honest questions you have had. No one should judge you because even Paul said his sickness (or whatever it be) that affected Paul was not his own trial but a trial to those around him and how they received him.

I hope this brings you comfort that your not alone in your darkest hours.

In Him

Starr
 
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Endure2

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starr

i dont know how you lived through what you did, but when i pray all i feel is alone.
the other day i tried to pray again and talk to God and see if he was real and i did pray, and for a moment it seemed like he was speaking to me and reasoning with me and suddenly it was all gone... nothing was there and i felt so alone. i was crying. though i know thats nothing compared to what you went through... i dont even feel like this is a an appropriate response to you.
im so sorry, reading your post made me feel guilty and i think i should maybe try again... but i dont believe in God anymore.
i cant possibly imagine how you do.

like you said, i dont want the reasons and the understanding, i want him to comfort me... and he is the only thing that doesnt seem to be there.
its only a deafing roaring silence that tells me it isnt real becuase he isnt real and it isnt worth following after.

i dont want my mind to think of something to keep my going, and i hate it when i feel my mind is fabricating things like him speaking to me, and when i really sit down and say "ok mind shut up... " and just try to listen to the real genuine God... nothing comes.
i really think i was decieved all these years.

though, my journey hasnt been a journey of hardship like yours, just a feeling and realising that its all been in my head becuase i can seem to control it and it changes with my attitude.





im sorry guys, but untill later and something happens, its over for me.
and i know becuase of what you all believe im a tragedy to you, and becuase of this, i dont mind you praying for me, if its real i need it.
 
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Starr

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Endure2,

Do you think when I lost my only child and had the Lord as the objection of my affections that I did not feel alone? Hon... Do you think Jesus felt God was there with Him on the cross or were they just words for our theology concepts? This is where whats in our heads gets reborn in our hearts. Know what the carnal mind is? Its death and that gets swallowed up in life (His). In the process its painful, and although you might believe its possible to remove yourself from His hand, He still holds you. Feel faithless? So did I, when we are faithless He remains faithful thats something you cannot change. But I know... O so well how you feel, even moreso did I feel no only forsaken but my child taken from me. Her name is Emily, she was a beautiful soul, she was never sick, always loving helpful and the funnest little girl you could know, my angel. I lived as much for her as for the Lord they were all I had, I felt when I lost her I lost Him, my faith was shattered to peices, "How could you?" I shouted "I have given my life and everything I am to you and you took her away?" WHY?!!! For what purpose? Why does someone else have 7 children and its my only one that is taken from me? Have you not rebuked David for such a thing? I sit here with no child in complete devestation and wondering not IF God exists but what kind of God do I have? Why? Why? Why? Why?

There will never be answer. I was a walking dead person, felt nothing from God, not that He cared, or even comforted me, His presence? No where to be found. I have never even thought I could "go there". It hadn't even entered my mind to think I would feel the loss of either, but He allowed it. And I could swear to you that nothing anyone said made any difference, neither will anything I say to you make any difference its not a place where words can reach you, so when you've been where you are for a season knowing you have excericised all your options to get this away from you and even conclude God has left you, you will find out differently. But right now you haven't the faith for it nor the hope and I don't expect you reach for something when your hanging your head right now, thats His Job but I can testify of it and tell you before it happens and when it does you can recall my words but for the most part His words and you will know Him in a different way.

Losing a child is one of the worst loses one can have, there is no loss greater then that of a mother and her child, not even "the dicernable presence of the Lord" Why? Because I've know the loss of His presence many times in waves and in seasons when He makes Himself known, this happens to all of us and we have names for them such as "dry spells" or "the rain of His blessings" upon us but there is no name for a woman who has lost a child.. None. A wife or husband who have lost one or the other is called a widow or widower even a motherless child an orphan, but theres no name for me, the devestation is unthinkable to "name it".

Don't feel guilty for comparing our situations my situation followed MANY of yours, I know hon, I hear it and I identify with it because we are one in the body of Christ whether you believe it or not. What if some did not believe? Shall that nullify Gods faithfulness? Absolutely not. Your right where you are and He will come again to you and you will again experience this very thing and each time you do you grow stronger and accept that this is something He does. Do yourself a favor and run a search online concerning the "loss of Gods presence" in ones life. I read a book called a "Greif observed" by CS Lewis, I never read any of his stuff, but it followed the death of His wife and He said the heavens were bolted against him he felt like every prayer he prayed bounced back off an invisible iron clad door, God? No where to be found... Our Lord? He too felt forsaken this is part of the walk. But you cannot shake God having the rememberance as Job did when He remembered the sweetness of Gods light and His blessing upon Him. Job could not perceive God in fact He at this point and this particular season was in fear as well. They are "seasons" and they are long as He decideds until you feel like you will and do break. Purpose? I havent the slightest clue not yet but I hope to, in hoping that I am frightened of what I ask, but at this point I have lost it all.

You said, you can seem to "control" something... thats the illusion because your finding out you can't right now and thats a very scary feeling, talk about trembling knees concerning the situation and the feelings they invoke I completely understand. I too wanted comfort but what happens as a child being comforted is now your life is being engaged by Him and being remade and you will begin not to ask for His comfort but to BECOME a comforter thats what our sufferings are all about. Someone who has not suffered has no power whatsoever, no power to relate to broken hearts, they have nothing to give, they think they are rich but they are poor they have nothing. They can help no one, they can sit there like Jobs freinds and spat their opinions, their judgements and their theology but nothing that could relieve Jobs soul, they were better off when they first saw Job in sitting quietly and saying nothing then to speak the words they did. Physicians of no value, no gold tried by the fire of the many tribulations you will go through and I'm not talking all "outside" of yourself tried by God trieth the heart and what appears first? DROSS, we see all of the things we did not see in ourselves come up to the surface. We see all the things that rise in us that we want to fix in others and see how powerless we are to change those things in ourselves. He makes sure we SEE IT, because theres something important in seeing it and acknowledging it (not sins, but those too, its not about sins here). You will see something and He will show you and from where he brings you, you will turn and strengthen your brethren in your return.

You'll see, your ok where you are. He hasn't left you He has made it so you cannot perceive Him, He did the same to Job and to Jesus, does this not all show you anything concerning His works and how He does them? But its still not enough, I understand. But I will be praying for you as I remember you in my heart before Him. God will bless you.

In Him
Starr

P.S Pilgrim, thank you for your prayers don't we all need them? I appreciate your rememberance before Our Lord, God bless you as well.
 
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deg

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Hey Bro.

Can I tell you someting endure? Forget 'christianity' the reilgion. It's not the answer. Forget church. It ain't it either; it certainly has no effect on a thing like this. Forget friends and churchgoers, forget parents. You probably already have. Don't come online for what is really true.

All my "always known Jesus" Christian friends give me the impression of what you're being honest and open about: full doubt about God. One girl is going through exactly what you are right now, and she's a minister's kid, actively involved in church. Talk about social/family pressures to make-'believe!' But none of these pressures are from God. If God is who He says he is, I can tell you right now, He doesn't require humanity involved in his guidance. She, like you, did it all backwards. She was brought up in the church, told what and how to believe and why she was to believe, and never once received a Divine call. Never once received a Divine touch, and manufactured it as she went. You should meet God, and THEN meet His book, and THEN meet His people. She did the church thing (better than ANYONE, lead prayer meetings, spoke, lead worship etc), and tried to find God through it all, but never found Him. I think you're coming to the same realization. God ain't in the church much anymore. (It sounds like a funny thing to say, but its mostly true)

Having 'always gone to church' and having 'always prayed and read' does not mean 'having always known Jesus.' You can only see the Kingdom if you are born again.

I can tell you right now, Endure, with every fibre of my body, and all my heart, as God is my Witness and Judge, that I have heard the Voice of the Lord. It didn't come in 'manufactured' prayer voices, though I'm sure He has really begun to speak to me in prayer. It didn't come in a time of enjoyable singing in church. It came in a dream, and He spoke six words that I cannot forget. When He talks, when He really, truly talks, you can never forget it. His voice changes you. Period. You could walk away from it your whole life, ignore it, shut it up, sin all day long, but you still know that you know that you know that you will meet Him face to face, and nothing you do or say will change that. Nothing anyone ever does or says will change that, not me, not anyone. It is like a splinter in your mind you can't get rid of, no matter what. (It's actually the Grace of God.)



In fact, every single Christian, who is truly in the Lord, has heard/received something that they can't fully put away. It is an inward (NOT FROM OTHER PEOPLE AT ALL) compulsion to follow and know God. It is compelling, and forceful. And while sons can try to put it away, it gnaws at them like a disease. It doesn't matter if they ignore it forever, they know that they know, without any attempt at 'drumming up' or manufacturing thoughts, that they will one day stand before the God of Christ, and that's just the way it is. No one can give you that, you can't grab it, you can't try for it. You can only receive that. Ask for it, sure, but do not manufacture it, you would only be creating your own little god, which will be torn down.



I repeat, if you feel that this whole thing would fail if you gave up, then you have never, ever met the Living Christ. If you stopped praying, stopped reading your bible (as though these things are God himself!), stopped church, then what? I'm lost? Then you've never really ever met God, nor had a birth in the Spirit. A child cannot change his parents, period. It is a fact of his existence, and the very foundation of it. If you have not been born by Him, then ask Him for the new life, if you want it. If not, then Lord bless you, and may He show Himself to you sovereignly. If you have been born by God, then He will always be your Father, whether you spend eighty years running toward or away from Him. If you actually have been born by Him, then you are His. Period. What you do with that is up to you.


Endure, God can also speak in real words. He knows english. He doesn't usually speak in regular words like you and I (I don't know why), but sometimes He does. However He speaks, when you hear, you will know it's Him. You will know He is the Lord, just like the prophet says. Try asking Him, and don't stop until He gives in. I don't know why, but it took me weeks of determined asking, I mean weeks of heckling Him to get Him to open his AUDIBLE MOUTH. And just wait till you hear, it's better than life. If you are asking for a sign from Him, and are doing so in a sincere and true heart, HE WILL GIVE IT TO YOU. He loves you, and wants a pure, believing heart in you, and is willing to expend great energy to get it. Keep asking though, and eventually it will come, and blow your doubts (AND your preconceptions) about His Voice away.



Lord bless you, endure. He loves you very much.
 
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