I don't get it...

[JimB]

I wouldn't call the 4 Gospels, encompassing Jesus' entire ministry here on earth, "selective scriptures"

Jesus heals

It would be if you ignored the rest of the Bible.

Sincerely,
~Adam Zappel

 

[BarbB]

NO. I don't believe that you are questioning whether the Lord is good, nor am I implying that you don't take refuge in Him. The point I was emphasizing was "taste and see". I've experienced the things that some here are saying are not "truth" many times over. I've seen it work in other's lives and in my own life.

And why are some people so concerned with whether or not I am questioning your salvation??

ATTENTION K-MART SHOPPERS: I AM NOT QUESTIONING YOUR SALVATION.

On another note, I am secure about my salvation and who I am in Christ, so feel free to question my salvation all you want. It won't offend me in the least.

Why on earth would I question your salvation? I believe that you are who you say you are - a radically saved believer in Jesus Christ.

I have tasted and I have seen and I can truly find no rest in anything but God. What on earth do you think I am denying?

That God heals? Nope, he heals all the time.
That God is good. Nope, he's good all the time.
That God saved me. Nope, not that either.

But you are denying reality if you deny that sometimes God doesn't heal immediately. And if the one who is not healed has prayed for healing and loves God more than anything in their lives, more than life itself, then there must be another reason why God has not healed them.

 

[probinson]

Healing is not guaranteed by the atonement, it is provided by the atonement. A man's doctrine (WOF) states that the only thing standing between a Christian and perfect health is sin or a lack of faith, because healing is the privilege of all believers.

Here is what most WoF people ACTUALLY believe about healing:

We Believe....
DIVINE HEALING - Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Church today (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).

From Rhema Bible Church's Tenets of Faith.

 

[Christina M]

See what I mean.

How rude, Jim. Can you ever just be nice??? Such preconceived and prejudiced remarks.

Not all WOFers are crooks, scam artists and heretics....even if you believe they are. You are so colored by whatever assumed "offense" you took on during your trip into WOFism. Isn't it time to forgive.... repent.... and move on in life? Obviously you haven't since you still hold such bitterness.

I've asked you before....put me on ignore since I'm such a thorn in your side.....

 

[jeolmstead]

My feelings on the matter:

I’ve heard so many say that we are somehow different then the disciples, as if they had some special dispensation for suffering that somehow does not apply to us.

They were men like us. They had hopes and fears. They had trouble understanding the revelations God was giving them. (just like us). God was surely with them! He delivered them from jail (after they were flogged). Paul was raised up (after he was stoned). Stephen lifted his eyes to heaven and saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father as he was being executed. And, In spite of their faith, and hope, and trust; in spite of the fact that they were delivered many times, there came a time when the jail door did not swing open and the chains did not fall away. Every one of them with the exception of John was martyred.

Surely it is a shame that they did not understand the bible (as they were writing it) If they had only understood things the way we do, they could have marched around Herod’s palace and claimed it in the name of the Lord. They and all those who died in the Roman games, or were burned like candles in Nero’s garden could have been spared. I guess they just “died for lack of knowledge” It’s really sad, so many died praising God thanking Him that they were counted worthy to suffer” What an awful testimony that must have been. If they had only had more faith.

John O.

 

[BarbB]

John, I wish you would start a blog!

 

[SteelDisciple]

What kind of person would even think that God does not heal in this day and age?

 

[probinson]

Why on earth would I question your salvation? I believe that you are who you say you are - a radically saved believer in Jesus Christ.

The point I was making was I see people here going, "Are you questioning my salvation?" Who cares! We should be secure enough in our salvation to not really care whether anyone is questioning it.

I have tasted and I have seen and I can truly find no rest in anything but God. What on earth do you think I am denying?

That God heals? Nope, he heals all the time.
That God is good. Nope, he's good all the time.
That God saved me. Nope, not that either.

I don't think that you personally are denying anything.

But you are denying reality if you deny that sometimes God doesn't heal immediately.

And I've never said anything remotely resembling that. The point I'm making is that we must choose to stand and believe, even when circumstances say otherwise. Even when there are giants in the land. Even when everything is against us.

And if the one who is not healed has prayed for healing and loves God more than anything in their lives, more than life itself, then there must be another reason why God has not healed them.

There could be many things hindering healing. But because many are so sensitive and offend so easily, when someone honestly and sincerely offers help, we respond with "Who are you to tell me that I have sin/unforgiveness/doubt/whatever!" instead of humbling ourselves before God and seeking Him to see if there may be some truth in what they are saying. Is sin/unforgiveness/doubt/whatever the cause of all sickness? Of course not. But they may be.

 

[BenAdam]

ATTENTION K-MART SHOPPERS: I AM NOT QUESTIONING YOUR SALVATION.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to probinson again.

Oh well, good line anyway Pete!

 

[Christina M]

Why on earth would I question your salvation? I believe that you are who you say you are - a radically saved believer in Jesus Christ.

I have tasted and I have seen and I can truly find no rest in anything but God. What on earth do you think I am denying?

That God heals? Nope, he heals all the time.
That God is good. Nope, he's good all the time.
That God saved me. Nope, not that either.

But you are denying reality if you deny that sometimes God doesn't heal immediately. And if the one who is not healed has prayed for healing and loves God more than anything in their lives, more than life itself, then there must be another reason why God has not healed them.

Barb......

NONE of us have ever said God heals instantly every time. I've stood in faith for a long time sometimes.

But what I guess we disagree on is that those who are not healed instantly decide that, because they aren't, God WANTS them sick - for a reason, to teach them a lesson, whatever.

Instead, we should all know that if what is said in the Word (His Will) does not immediately come to pass, and since we know God is perfect, that it is something on our part that is holding it up. It can't be God's fault.... He is Love, Perfection, Good and Just.

It may be lack of faith.
It may be sin.
It may be disobedience.
It may be ignorance.
The Word is full of conditions.

But the fault lies with us, not God.

Some people recoil when they hear that... so it is much easier to rationalize "God wants me this way for a reason".

How much more freeing to say "Yep. I am lacking in some area. Let me get into the Word. Find the knowledge that is eluding me. Find out His will. And align myself up with His will."

 

[JTM3]

ohhhhh mama...lol.

This is entertaining

Now if some Calvinists would post...

 

[BenAdam]

But the fault lies with us, not God.

ah hah!!!! There it is. Christina, when healing doesn't happen, we just don't know why sometimes...... Don't blame us, don't blame God, just say I don't know.

 

[JTM3]

*struggles to think of whitty retort*

 

[BenAdam]

*struggles to think of whitty retort*

You can be witty and dismissive or you can add value, your choice.

 

[probinson]

ah hah!!!! There it is. Christina, when healing doesn't happen, we just don't know why sometimes...... Don't blame us, don't blame God, just say I don't know.

But I believe we CAN know:

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

But then LOOK! There's a condition:

James 1:6
But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.

and what happens if we do not believe and doubt when we ask?

James 1:7-8
That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.

 

[jeolmstead]

John, I wish you would start a blog!

Then I woud surely never get any work done!

John O.

 

[JimfromOhio]

ohhhhh mama...lol.

This is entertaining

Now if some Calvinists would post...

Calvinists?

 

[BarbB]

Good thoughtful response, Pete, Thank you.

We should be constantly examining our Christian walk to see where we might be lacking. In fact, I believe we are required to. But the thought of God being unable to bring our lack to the fore via the Holy Spirit is unimaginable to me. The Holy Spirit almost daily brings to my mind an improvement, an inclination to some sin, an incident where I was thoughtless or uncharitable. He's my constant companion. How can he not tell me what I need to know?

My belief, which has been pooh poohed by most WOF (thank you for those who've heard me out and agreed, at least in part), when you finally get your back to the wall, and all areas have been examined and not found wanting and you are still loving God in spite of not receiving your healing, might there not be another reason? Mighten it just be a refining process? I know that I will be healed. I know that when I'm raptured or at the resurrection I will receive an incorruptible body. What I pray for is that my mind will be refined to the same degree as my incorruptible body and my Christ-like spirit.

 

[probinson]

My feelings on the matter:

I’ve heard so many say that we are somehow different then the disciples, as if they had some special dispensation for suffering that somehow does not apply to us.

They were men like us. They had hopes and fears. They had trouble understanding the revelations God was giving them. (just like us). God was surely with them! He delivered them from jail (after they were flogged). Paul was raised up (after he was stoned). Stephen lifted his eyes to heaven and saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father as he was being executed. And, In spite of their faith, and hope, and trust; in spite of the fact that they were delivered many times, there came a time when the jail door did not swing open and the chains did not fall away. Every one of them with the exception of John was martyred.

Surely it is a shame that they did not understand the bible (as they were writing it) If they had only understood things the way we do, they could have marched around Herod’s palace and claimed it in the name of the Lord. They and all those who died in the Roman games, or were burned like candles in Nero’s garden could have been spared. I guess they just “died for lack of knowledge” It’s really sad, so many died praising God thanking Him that they were counted worthy to suffer” What an awful testimony that must have been. If they had only had more faith.

John O.

I would just like to say, suffering FOR THE GOSPEL'S SAKE and having a sickness or disease are NOT the same thing.

 

[BenAdam]

But I believe we CAN know:

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

But then LOOK! There's a condition:

James 1:6
But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.

and what happens if we do not believe and doubt when we ask?

James 1:7-8
That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.

I didn't say we couldn't know Pete, people are just too quick to find an answer. I think it is important to find out. Smith Wigglesworth suffered with horrible kidney stones for a long time. I don't know why he didn't get healed immediatly, later on he did. Some people might have immediatly lumped him into the "you don't have faith to get healed" category.