I don't care if you think abortion is wrong.

KarateCowboy · Jan 15, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
redefining words arbitrarily is lying all the same.

This from a guy who will tell you that "homosexual", as used by the Bible, can't POSSIBLY be mistranslated... but a word like "slave" can be.

And whats even worse? He sees absolutely no contradiction in this.

Ha. Happens all the time. Very interesting you say that.

Some examples:
'Discriminate' used to mean 'make a wise or discerning choice'.

'Gay' used to mean 'happy'.

'marriage' used to mean 'the union between a man and woman'. Literally. I have a dictionary from the '40's that says that.

'bigot' used to mean 'someone who is obstinate in their beliefs'

'gender' used to mean what parts you're born with.

'sex' used to mean 'the act of reproducing'.

The GBLT lobby is very practiced at the duplicitous practice of using equivocation fallacies to its advantage.

EnemyPartyII · Jan 15, 2008

KarateCowboy said:
Ha. Happens all the time. Very interesting you say that.

Some examples:
'Discriminate' used to mean 'make a wise or discerning choice'.

'Gay' used to mean 'happy'.

'marriage' used to mean 'the union between a man and woman'. Literally. I have a dictionary from the '40's that says that.

'bigot' used to mean 'someone who is obstinate in their beliefs'

'gender' used to mean what parts you're born with.

'sex' used to mean 'the act of reproducing'.

The GBLT lobby is very practiced at the duplicitous practice of using equivocation fallacies to its advantage.

Thats fine, but we aren't talking about "meaning drift" within one language here, we are talking about mistranslation from one language to another

KarateCowboy · Jan 15, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
Thats fine, but we aren't talking about "meaning drift" within one language here, we are talking about mistranslation from one language to another

True enough. Though I wasn't talking about meaning drift either. I was talking about redefining a la Newspeak.
For thousands of years Leviticus 18 had the Bible you to say 'homosexuals(or sodomites) . . . will not see the kingdom of God'. But now all of a sudden some people are saying "Wait, no that's not what it means. It actually means . . .". Another example is the ritualistic brotherhood ceremonies that still exist in the Coptic churches today. They have been known to be that all along, but suddenly someone looks at it and finds a new meaning. "Same sex marriage existed in the early church!" they proclaim. Well, if by marriage you simply mean a bonding between two people of the same gender(synonym: sex) then yes, it is existed, and still does in the form of fraternal bonding in the Coptic church. However if you mean marriage as in "First comes love . . ." then no, it did not.

EnemyPartyII · Jan 15, 2008

For thousands of years Leviticus 18 had the Bible you to say 'homosexuals(or sodomites)

Prove it?

For thousands of years the word in Leviticus 18 was the exact same word used to describe rape everywhere else. Why is it that only in Lev 18 it means consentual homosexual sex, where everywhere else, it means rape?

It wasn't until it was translated from the Hebrew that it came to be applied to homosexuals.

Lisa0315 · Jan 15, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
Prove it?

For thousands of years the word in Leviticus 18 was the exact same word used to describe rape everywhere else. Why is it that only in Lev 18 it means consentual homosexual sex, where everywhere else, it means rape?

It wasn't until it was translated from the Hebrew that it came to be applied to homosexuals.

How do you get out of the man lying with man part?

Lisa

EnemyPartyII · Jan 15, 2008

Lisa0315 said:
How do you get out of the man lying with man part?

Lisa

yes, thats right... man forcibly raping another man is wrong.

KarateCowboy · Jan 15, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
Prove it?

For thousands of years the word in Leviticus 18 was the exact same word used to describe rape everywhere else. Why is it that only in Lev 18 it means consentual homosexual sex, where everywhere else, it means rape?

It wasn't until it was translated from the Hebrew that it came to be applied to homosexuals.

That was an error on my part there. What I meant to say was "for thousands of years the Bible said homosexuals will not see the kingdom of God". I was in a hurry and just typing without rereading and that is why it became garbled. In the New Testament it has said that homosexuals will not see the kingdom of Heaven.

EnemyPartyII · Jan 15, 2008

KarateCowboy said:
That was an error on my part there. What I meant to say was "for thousands of years the Bible said homosexuals will not see the kingdom of God". I was in a hurry and just typing without rereading and that is why it became garbled. In the New Testament it has said that homosexuals will not see the kingdom of Heaven.

same problem. What was the word Paul used? Is homosexual as we mean the term today a valid interpretation of that word?

Texas Lynn · Jan 15, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
same problem. What was the word Paul used? Is homosexual as we mean the term today a valid interpretation of that word?

Generally no. That referred to exploitative, coerced relationships.

EnemyPartyII · Jan 15, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
Generally no. That referred to exploitative, coerced relationships.

Indeed.

KarateCowboy · Jan 16, 2008

Here is a fun game:

1) Go to this web site and look up "arsenokoites" and have it translated.
2) See what it says.
3) Let me know

Tic toc tic toc tic toc!

Lisa0315 · Jan 16, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
yes, thats right... man forcibly raping another man is wrong.

Ahem...Even if that were the right interpretation, and I don't believe it to be true, the one thing you cannot get around is that ALL sexual relationships outside the bonds of marriage is sin. Since it is GOD who defines what constitutes marriage, then, the simple fact remains that civil unions will not be acknowledged in the eyes of God. Therefore, all sex, homosexual or heterosexual outside the bonds of HOLY marriage is still sin.

Saying that, I do think that the church needs to get their own act together, as in eliminating divorce, adultery, and pedophilia before pointing the finger at anyone else.

Lisa

Lisa0315 · Jan 16, 2008

Question...How did this go from abortion to homosexuality anyway?

Lisa

Renton405 · Jan 16, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
redefining words arbitrarily is lying all the same.

This from a guy who will tell you that "homosexual", as used by the Bible, can't POSSIBLY be mistranslated... but a word like "slave" can be.

And whats even worse? He sees absolutely no contradiction in this.

Im sorry but the slaves back in biblical times are not what you think. I think you've watched "Roots" a little too many times.

Strong’s #733 arsenokoites “a sodomite, defile self with mankind.”

Strong’s #4205 pornos,paramours“to sell, a male prostitute (as venal), a debauchee (libertine): fornicator, whoremonger

Strong’s #3120 malakos “soft, fine clothing, a catamite, effeminate.”

catamite: “a boy who has a sexual relationship with a man” (AHCD).

effeminate: “having characteristics more often associated with women than a man” (AHCD).

"homosexual offender" is the Greek word arsenokoites which means a sodomite, a person who engages in any kind of unnatural sex, but especially homosexual intercourse

The elements of the Greek word arsenokoites are “male-lier”-A male who lies with a male. “Male bed partners”–Wycliffe Bible Dictionary.

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even [1] their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also [2] the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense [penalty] of their error which was meet [due]” (Rom. 1:26-27).

What is St. Paul saying here? That if these men, who left their natural use of women, and left them for other men keep living in their lifestyle, that they will eventually receive the recompense that they are due because of their errors(damnation)..

yes, thats right... man forcibly raping another man is wrong.

nice try, but no dice.. St Paul dosen't saying "raping" all he says is "lying".. "Burned in their lust towards one another" , that means both partys are consenting and lusting towards one another based on the grammar. You cannot get around that verse.. Its too obvious

Texas Lynn · Jan 16, 2008

Lisa0315 said:
Question...How did this go from abortion to homosexuality anyway?

Lisa

Extremists who seek to take away a woman's right to choose and to harm LGBTs are usually one and the same.

Texas Lynn · Jan 16, 2008

Most "sodomy" is engaged in by heterosexuals.

Lisa0315 · Jan 16, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
Most "sodomy" is engaged in by heterosexuals.

I would like to see your source, please.

Lisa

Texas Lynn · Jan 16, 2008

Lisa0315 said:
I would like to see your source, please.

Lisa

My gosh, some of that sort of questions makes me forget how naive some people are. Not that there's anything wrong with that. What makes you doubt it? It's common knowledge for people who are not ignorant of sexology. I suppose The Kinsey Report on Female Sexuality might be a good place to start, as would anything by William Masters and Virginia Johnson or a college sophomore gender roles textbook. If you're really interested you could see The Woman's Guide to Anal Sex by Jack Morin or Pucker Up by Tristan Taormino. Taormino also has a video available from Good Vibrations on the subject.

EnemyPartyII · Jan 16, 2008

Renton405 said:
Im sorry but the slaves back in biblical times are not what you think. I think you've watched "Roots" a little too many times.

Strong’s #733 arsenokoites “a sodomite, defile self with mankind.”

Strong’s #4205 pornos,paramours“to sell, a male prostitute (as venal), a debauchee (libertine): fornicator, whoremonger

Strong’s #3120 malakos “soft, fine clothing, a catamite, effeminate.”

catamite: “a boy who has a sexual relationship with a man” (AHCD).
effeminate: “having characteristics more often associated with women than a man” (AHCD).

"homosexual offender" is the Greek word arsenokoites which means a sodomite, a person who engages in any kind of unnatural sex, but especially homosexual intercourse

The elements of the Greek word arsenokoites are “male-lier”-A male who lies with a male. “Male bed partners”–Wycliffe Bible Dictionary.

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even [1] their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also [2] the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense [penalty] of their error which was meet [due]” (Rom. 1:26-27).

What is St. Paul saying here? That if these men, who left their natural use of women, and left them for other men keep living in their lifestyle, that they will eventually receive the recompense that they are due because of their errors(damnation)..

nice try, but no dice.. St Paul dosen't saying "raping" all he says is "lying".. "Burned in their lust towards one another" , that means both partys are consenting and lusting towards one another based on the grammar. You cannot get around that verse.. Its too obvious

then why does the Bible use both the word "slave" and "servant" if they are, as you claim, essentially the same thing?

suzybeezy · Jan 16, 2008

PeterMaclellan said:
Listen, Pro-lifers, we KNOW that you don't like abortion, So here's what you can do. You can choose not to have abortions and you can teach your children that abortion is morally wrong. Stay the hell out of the rest of our lives. If were not hurting you, you have NO. RIGHT. WHAT. SO. EVER. to attempt to control what we do. An abortion is a serious decision and the only people that should weigh in on it are the ones directly effected by it, and the doctor. I don't care if you think it's immoral, you have no logical justification for intervention on this one. Leave it alone.

Most pro-lifers feel its their moral obligation to speak up for those who don't have a voice.

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/prolife.html

God gave the law and penalty for murder (described as the shedding of "man's blood"). Therefore, God considers blood to be the basis for life and the shedding of human blood, which results in death, to be murder. Science tells us that the heart of the human fetus begins to form 18 days after conception. There is a measurable heart beat 21-24 days after conception. Since blood is flowing at this point, it is likely that blood formation begins well before day 21 (I could find no reference for the date at which blood formation begins). Therefore, this represents the latest date at which we must consider the fetus to be human (according to biblical standards), which is only 7-10 days after a women would expect to begin her menses. Most women have cycles that can vary by this amount, and therefore do not discover they are pregnant until after this point. For all practical purposes, from a biblical perspective, abortion at any point must be considered murder by Bible-believing Christians.

http://www.nevadalife.org/life_is_precious.htm

The miracle of a developing child is astounding. A babys heart begins to beat 18 to 25 days after conception. Brain waves can be recorded at 40 days. At 11 to 12 weeks, a baby squints, swallows, makes a fist, has fingerprints, kicks and sucks its thumb. Not long ago, a couple from our church had a child born several months premature. It weighed only 1 lb, 7 oz, but it survived and is doing well. God gives life. And life begins at conception long before a baby takes its first breath. Abortion is wrong because it snuffs out a life. Abortion stops a beating heart.

If you were walkin' down the street and seen someone attacking another, which could lead to their death, most would try to make some effort to intervene. Some may just make a phone call, while others do more to try to save a life. The point is when life is threatened its within most of us to want to prevent the death. The dispute usually just comes down to when one believes life begins. Most christians feel not speaking out against abortion is the same as condoning it.

James 4:17 tells us Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesnt do it, sins.

I don't care if you think abortion is wrong.

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