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QFT... applicable to homosexuality tooA 16 year old girl is unexpectedly pregnant. She, her boyfried, her parents and her doctor have spent many agonizing hours in careful discussion of all the options, and decide on abortion, suddenly the phone rings.
Caller: Hi, I'm the Christian Right! Just calling to let you know you can't have an abortions.
Girl: Umm... why not?
Caller: Because we don't like it.
Girl: So? It's not your baby, it's not your family, it's not your decision...
Caller: Well too bad, I've never met you before and you live thousands of miles away from me, but I feel I have a right to compel people to follow my moral precepts above their own.
Girl: You do realize that this decision has absolutely nothing to do with you right? That there is no possible way my having an abortion would effect you negatively right?
Caller: Oh I understand that perfectly, still, I find your behavior, which has no effect on me whatsoever, distasteful, so no, you can't do it.
Girl:...
Caller: Ok bye now! God bless.
Listen, Pro-lifers, we KNOW that you don't like abortion, So here's what you can do. You can choose not to have abortions and you can teach your children that abortion is morally wrong. Stay the hell out of the rest of our lives. If were not hurting you, you have NO. RIGHT. WHAT. SO. EVER. to attempt to control what we do. An abortion is a serious decision and the only people that should weigh in on it are the ones directly effected by it, and the doctor. I don't care if you think it's immoral, you have no logical justification for intervention on this one. Stay the hell out.
except that abortion ISN'T illegalTo the OP:
I gotta say, whether you like it or not, if you desire to perform an act that is either illegal or morally questionable, your not wanting others to interfere shouldn't make a difference. IF abortion is unethical, then I'm quite happy to prevent you from doing it, since on some levels it is infanticide.
Your example of a 16 year old girl who accidentally got pregnant and decided to get rid of the baby is also pretty bad. Where is the responsibility? Sorry, "I didn't think of it at the time", is not a good reason. If you're talking rape victims or other such extreme situations, this is a different matter.
A 16 year old girl is unexpectedly pregnant. She, her boyfried, her parents and her doctor have spent many agonizing hours in careful discussion of all the options, and decide on abortion, suddenly the phone rings.
Caller: Hi, I'm the Christian Right! Just calling to let you know you can't have an abortions.
Girl: Umm... why not?
Caller: Because we don't like it.
Girl: So? It's not your baby, it's not your family, it's not your decision...
Caller: Well too bad, I've never met you before and you live thousands of miles away from me, but I feel I have a right to compel people to follow my moral precepts above their own.
Girl: You do realize that this decision has absolutely nothing to do with you right? That there is no possible way my having an abortion would effect you negatively right?
Caller: Oh I understand that perfectly, still, I find your behavior, which has no effect on me whatsoever, distasteful, so no, you can't do it.
Girl:...
Caller: Ok bye now! God bless.
Listen, Pro-lifers, we KNOW that you don't like abortion, So here's what you can do. You can choose not to have abortions and you can teach your children that abortion is morally wrong. Stay the hell out of the rest of our lives. If were not hurting you, you have NO. RIGHT. WHAT. SO. EVER. to attempt to control what we do. An abortion is a serious decision and the only people that should weigh in on it are the ones directly effected by it, and the doctor. I don't care if you think it's immoral, you have no logical justification for intervention on this one. Stay the hell out.
except that abortion ISN'T illegal
In June 2007 in an article in The American Prospect John Judis and Ruy Texiera analyzed data from 2006 and 2007. In 2006, 18% favored outlawing all abortions. In 2007 it was 15%. Thus we see the anti-aborts are not winning people to their side and are indeed losing them, in this case losing 1/6 in one year. The only way they can people to their extreme position is through deception or coercion, two unethical methods they have repeatedly shown they are willing to use.
in any jurisdiction where abortion is classed as murder, then its murder. anywhere it isn't, then it isn't.In the US and a few other countrys. In lotsa other countrys its illegal,,, does that mean its murder in those countrys?? Is the US law your universal moral code??
If he is in the girl's circle of support or the father, then he would have every right to have a say in it. If not, then the same applies to him as every not previously mentioned. None of our business.How bout you stay the hell out of the unborn childs life and his right to life..
No. The potential does not outweigh the actual.The unborn child has a right to live like anyone else.
And you are placing women into the roll of unwilling incubators. Which would make you cold hearted, immoral, and ignorant. You have no idea what is going on in this person's life. Only that you feel that the fetus in more important than the woman.If you say different then you obviously don't respect the value of human life..And if you don't respect human life then you are immoral, cold hearted, and ignorant..
Wrong. You are fighting to make women less than men. You are fighting to enforce your morals upon others. You are fighting to bring us into fascism.The Pro-lifers are fighting for the voice of the child, which the mother and doctor ignore, and has no right to ignore.
And to be just as silly as you are being:the unborn child does not consent to being ripped apart by a doctor it is done against its will which is a dastardly violent act..Shame on anyone who would do such a thing. An unborn child hasn't hurt anyone, they are innocent, and they deserve all the respect and right to live as does anyone else..
Right. You wouldn't happen to have any statistics on that one, would you? I'm pretty sure that, given the political climate over the past 8 years, no abortion clinics are provided with tax dollars.And yes abortion does hurt people. Forcing tax payers their money to fund abortions.
Really? Go read Freakanomics. He has some really interesting things to say about how abortion has had an effect on our society. Like lowering the crime rate and such. Interesting stuff.It corrodes the moral structure of society, which increases crime and child abuse..Abortion is an act of violence and child abuse, and any increase of those 2 things does affect society and could lead to even worse things..
Probably.In the US and a few other countrys. In lotsa other countrys its illegal,,, does that mean its murder in those countrys??
The irony in this sentence is absolutely delicious. You are asking others about how their morality is universal? Right after you have just shoved your own down our throats? Hy-freaking-sterical!!the US law your universal moral code??
It was an either/or statement. In Australia, it's not illegal, but whether or not it's ethical is a different matter. I'm just saying that IF it's unethical -and I believe that it usually is- then whether you think it's fine or not, doesn't change that fact.except that abortion ISN'T illegal
Yeah, that's the only option people have.
Did you think before you typed that?
And you know this how? Because of all the dumpster babies out there? Your argument is ridiculous. Unwanted children are given up for adoption the vast majority of the time. I've only ever hear of a child abandoned at birth by teen moms trying to hide their condition from their parents. And that's so exceedingly rare that its national news when it occurs. Let's keep our arguments confined to the real world, yes?Maybe you didn't think while reading my post, people who get pregnant on accident are generally irresponsible and won't bother going to the trouble adopting it away or taking it to an orphanage. They'll just take the easiest path out, and if Abortion is blocked what is left? Abandoning it.
I think its unethical in most cases too... but I also think using emotive terms like "murder" inappropriately, in a deliberate attempt to derail discussion is unethical as well.It was an either/or statement. In Australia, it's not illegal, but whether or not it's ethical is a different matter. I'm just saying that IF it's unethical -and I believe that it usually is- then whether you think it's fine or not, doesn't change that fact.
What?So you're saying it's morally okay to abort a baby at nine months... when the girl has had ALL THAT TIME to make the decision beforehand? Not only would I actually consider that murder, but I'd consider that very stupid to carry the baby THAT FAR to term only to abort it. I'd have to wonder if the girl is being malicious.
I can understand extreme exceptions at the 4-5 month mark... but you can't tell me that Partial Birth Abortion makes sense.
Says the one who refuses to call the unborn child a human.I think its unethical in most cases too... but I also think using emotive terms like "murder" inappropriately, in a deliberate attempt to derail discussion is unethical as well.
Lets not use a legal term in place of an ethical term.
I've never done anything of the sort. an unborn child is certainly HUMAN, I merely question the veracity of calling it a PERSON before it is self aware... and red herring all you like, that doesn't change the fact that murder is a legal term, not an ethical one.Says the one who refuses to call the unborn child a human.
worth repeating.I think what is really offensive to pro-choice people, is the absence of the fundamentalists after the baby is born and till they reach adulthood. That preaching and shouting from that lofty perch smacks of Pharisaicalness to them.
Yah, you're right... it's not true if the babies white.It would be worth repeating if it were true.
Wow - playing the race card. Nice! So, let's see if I get what you are saying. Fundimentalist pro-life Christians are fine spending their time and money trying to prevent non-white women from having abortions but turn their backs on non-white women who decide to have their babies. Have any support for that? Last time I looked, all those Christian run unwed mother shelters, chrisis pregnancy centers, and single mother programs weren't hanging "for whites only" signs on their doors. And I have heard no evidence, empirical or anecdotal, that non-white mothers are greated at the door with a mockingly polite "sorry sweety, we don't serve your kind here".Yah, you're right... it's not true if the babies white.
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