I do not remember this from Genesis creation account

[Daniel Marsh]

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

 

[NomNomPizza]

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

And the LORD God formed man ‭of‭ the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Formed the Spirit within the body made out of dust of earth

 

[KingsK.H.R.R.S]

The Bible project podcast has a series on “nephesh” translated soul in English. People don’t have souls, a body plus God’s spirit = nephesh/soul.

 

[Andrewn]

The Bible project podcast has a series on “nephesh” translated soul in English. People don’t have souls, a body plus God’s spirit = nephesh/soul.

You assume that "nephesh" is correctly translated soul in English. It's not the immortal soul. Every Jew knows that "nephesh" is the life force common to both humans and animals. As Leviticus says, "Nephesh is in the blood."

And the LORD God formed man ‭of‭ the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Formed the Spirit within the body made out of dust of earth

Not really, the spirit / ruah is not mentioned in the verse you quoted:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed Adam ‭of‭ the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the Neshama of life; and Adam became a nephesh chayyah."

nephesh chayyah - creation.com

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Ecc 3:19 For the fate of the children of Adam and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same ruah. People have no advantage over animals since everything is futile.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Ecc 3 should be taken into account as well...

9What does the worker gain from his toil? 10I have seen the burden that God has laid upon the sons of men to occupy them. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.

 

[Dkh587]

It’s referring to our breath.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It’s referring to our breath.

Sorry don't agree... animals have breath.

Humans have an awareness that animals don't have, because residing in them is a human spirit with a timeless space designed to receive His Holy Spirit at rebirth.

This also gives humans conscience and the unique ability to directly communicate with God as happened in the Garden.

 

[KingsK.H.R.R.S]

You assume that "nephesh" is correctly translated soul in English. It's not the immortal soul. Every Jew knows that "nephesh" is the life force common to both humans and animals. As Leviticus says, "Nephesh is in the blood."

My intent was to show that the modern concept of a soul is wrong and that nephesh translated as soul shouldn’t mean what we think it means in English like a ghost in the machine. I don’t think I was very clear though so thank you for correcting me.

 

[Dkh587]

The Bible project podcast has a series on “nephesh” translated soul in English. People don’t have souls, a body plus God’s spirit = nephesh/soul.

Hmm. Do you think an animal has God’s spirit, considering that they are a living nephesh?

 

[KingsK.H.R.R.S]

Hmm. Do you think an animal has God’s spirit, considering that they are a living nephesh?

All living things have God’s spirit. Not all things were made in God’s image. At least that’s how I’ve come to understand the stuff I’ve been reading.

 

[Andrewn]

It’s referring to our breath.

All living things have God’s spirit.

The Hebrew word "ruah" and its Greek equivalent "pneuma" are used hundreds of times in the OT and the NT. In many instances it's very difficult, almost impossible, to know whether these words mean breath (or wind), or spirit. Examples:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water.

But some modern translations read:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

Perhaps I would prefer to translate "the Breath of God." Or think of the following verse:

Joh 3:8 The pneuma blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone born of the pneuma.”

How should we translate "pneuma:" Spirit, breath, or wind?

As far as animals are concerned, they certainly have "ruah" (Ecc 3:19). But should we understand this to mean "breath" or "spirit?"

 

[KingsK.H.R.R.S]

The Hebrew word "ruah" and its Greek equivalent "pneuma" are used hundreds of times in the OT and the NT. In many instances it's very difficult, almost impossible, to know whether these words mean breath (or wind), or spirit. Examples:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water.

But some modern translations read:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

Perhaps I would prefer to translate "the Breath of God." Or think of the following verse:

Joh 3:8 The pneuma blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone born of the pneuma.”

How should we translate "pneuma:" Spirit, breath, or wind?

As far as animals are concerned, they certainly have "ruah" (Ecc 3:19). But should we understand this to mean "breath" or "spirit?"

The Biblical authors knew what they were doing. I don't see why a word has to be ONLY ONE meaning at any given time. I think it's fair to say that when the Biblical authors felt the wind, they knew it to be God's animated force. In the ancient world there was no such thing as natural and supernatural, ALL things were part of God keeping the cosmos moving, the opposite of the clockmaker setting the clock then stepping away.

With regards to animals, if we say that they have a spirit that is outside of or not caused by God's Spirit, then we are saying that there are living beings that are alive outside of God's animating force and I'm not willing to say that. It's fairly clear in Genesis that ALL life is created by God's Spirit creating order from the watery chaos.

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible project podcast has a series on “nephesh” translated soul in English. People don’t have souls, a body plus God’s spirit = nephesh/soul.

Depends on context.

In Genesis 2 "the person" is the "living soul"
In Matt 10:28 at death "they kill the body but not the soul" however God "destroys" not merely "kills" - "BOTH body AND soul " in fiery hell

in John 11 "our friend Lazarus sleeps", a reference to "the person" Lazarus... and later it is said "Lazarus is dead" to avoid all misunderstanding... still later in John 11 "he who believes on me shall never die".

In Ezek 18:4 "the souls the sins dies" - but in Ezek 18 not all die - only the wicked die. This is only true of the second death.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

James 2:26
King James Version

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

There is two Pnuemas, the Spirit of God and our own spirit

Romans 8:16 The Spirit (pnuema) itself beareth witness with our spirit (pnuema) that we are the children of God:

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

You assume that "nephesh" is correctly translated soul in English. It's not the immortal soul. Every Jew knows that "nephesh" is the life force common to both humans and animals. As Leviticus says, "Nephesh is in the blood."

The LORD is shown to have a soul (nephesh) though, for examples...

Judges 10:16 And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the LORD: and his soul (nephesh) was grieved for the misery of Israel.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Jerm 5:9 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Jerm 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Jerm 6:8 Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul (nephesh) depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited.

Jerm 9:9 Shall I not visit them for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.

 

[Andrewn]

I don't see why a word has to be ONLY ONE meaning at any given time. I think it's fair to say that when the Biblical authors felt the wind, they knew it to be God's animated force. In the ancient world there was no such thing as natural and supernatural, ALL things were part of God keeping the cosmos moving,

This is good, I agree. The distinction that I wanted to make is that we understand the "spirit" to survive after death but the "breath" to be temporary. Does the "ruah" of animals survive after death?

But these may not be the only choices. There is a 3rd choice: the "ruah" may survive after death in a non-personal form. It may just return to be a part of God. How does this apply to animals?

It's fairly clear in Genesis that ALL life is created by God's Spirit creating order from the watery chaos.

This is how animals were created:

Gen 1:24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.

The usual interpretation is that animals gain their "ruah" from the earth.

 

[Andrewn]

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

James 2:26
King James Version

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

There is two Pnuemas, the Spirit of God and our own spirit

Romans 8:16 The Spirit (pnuema) itself beareth witness with our spirit (pnuema) that we are the children of God:

The words "ruah" & "pneuma" in these verse clearly refer to something more than "breath" and are aptly translated "spirit."

 

[Andrewn]

The LORD is shown to have a soul (nephesh) though, for examples...

You provided excellent examples.

Gen 2:7 Then the Lord God formed Adam out of the dust from the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and Adam became a living being (nephesh).

Most modern translations render "nephesh" in this verse as "being." I think this is exactly what the word "nephesh" means in most instances and this rendering can be applied to the verses you quoted.

The expression "my nephesh" means "my being" or simply "myself."

 

[KingsK.H.R.R.S]

This is good, I agree. The distinction that I wanted to make is that we understand the "spirit" to survive after death but the "breath" to be temporary. Does the "ruah" of animals survive after death?

But these may not be the only choices. There is a 3rd choice: the "ruah" may survive after death in a non-personal form. It may just return to be a part of God. How does this apply to animals?


This is how animals were created:

Gen 1:24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.

The usual interpretation is that animals gain their "ruah" from the earth.

I like how you mentioned this, "non-personal form". I follow the NT Wright/Bible Project idea that the Bible is fairly quiet on the exact process of what happens after we die but before the New Creation. Thank you for your ideas, I will think and pray on them more.

The idea of animals gaining their ruakh from the Earth is interesting, and I see how you got it from the text, but I still don't know if I can take that to mean a Deistic idea that God just set it up and backed off to let it work it's own thing. Seems contrary to ancient thoughts about how deities worked, as well as Scriptures own description of YHWH God being so involved in the workings of the world. Like in Job at the end when he shows Job everything and is like, "Do you know why the birds do what they do?" kind of implying that it's God keeping everything moving.