I can't stand Trump... But I'm Voting for Him

[Piers Plowman]

Accountants don't "slip through the tax laws". They abide by them.

This is why I support a flat tax. As long as we have tax laws that allow deductions we are going to have people who can LEGALLY use those deductions. You have NO RIGHT to complain about someone using the legal methods of deductions. You might as well be complaining about your neigjbor using is expensive mortgage as a deduction. Or complain rhat someone is going 75 mph in a 75 mph zone just because you think it should be 55.

It's nonsensical.

I'm for a flat tax. No.deductions. You just pay from your income. Whatever it is.

Q: What is an accountant's favorite hobby?
A: Cooking!

 

[rturner76]

The underlying question would be... Why?

Are you serious? Are you actually asking why a McDonalds employee should pay more income tax than a man who made a billion dollars in one year? Dude, stop drinking the Kool-Aid As far as I'm concerned a man who makes a billion in one year should pay tax on it. A fast food employee pays more in Federal income tax than a billionaire. Please justify that..

 

[rturner76]

Accountants don't "slip through the tax laws". They abide by them.

This is why I support a flat tax. As long as we have tax laws that allow deductions we are going to have people who can LEGALLY use those deductions. You have NO RIGHT to complain about someone using the legal methods of deductions. You might as well be complaining about your neigjbor using is expensive mortgage as a deduction. Or complain rhat someone is going 75 mph in a 75 mph zone just because you think it should be 55.

It's nonsensical.

I'm for a flat tax. No.deductions. You just pay from your income. Whatever it is.

I'm not against a flat tax. Everybody pays their share. What I don't like is billionaires like Donald Trump paying $0 in income tax when a part-time employee at Wendy's pays more taxes than a billionaire. Do you feel me on that?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Are you serious? Are you actually asking why a McDonalds employee should pay more income tax than a man who made a billion dollars in one year? Dude, stop drinking the Kool-Aid As far as I'm concerned a man who makes a billion in one year should pay tax on it. A fast food employee pays more in Federal income tax than a billionaire. Please justify that..

No, I'm asking why that particular channel of taxation is so important to you?

Even if a billionaire negotiated his federal tax burden down to $0 for one or two particular years. (which is what happened in the instance you're talking about... Trump got his federal income tax down to 0% for 2020...he's paid millions in federal income taxes over the course of his life)

The reason why he was able to do that is because his businesses took major losses amid the pandemic.

https://thehill.com/business/3784189-how-trump-paid-0-in-income-tax-in-2020/

Despite pulling in nearly $11 million in interest from investments in addition to his nearly $400,000 salary, Trump did not pay income taxes because he also reported a $16 million loss from his real estate businesses. That loss put the former president almost $5 million in the red for 2020.
That means he didn’t have any taxable income and he didn’t pay anything in income tax.

“I think Trump’s 2020 losses were real, largely resulting from business losses he suffered at the start of the COVID pandemic,” Steve Rosenthal, a tax expert with the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, said in an email to The Hill. “That is why he paid zero taxes in 2020.

...can't have it both ways here
In one breath pundits are saying "Trump's a mega rich business owner, he should pay more in taxes!"
In the next breath "Trump's not actually a good business man, see?? Look how he loses millions of dollars year over year on his businesses!"

Which is it? If it's the latter, then that's why he's able to negotiate his tax bill down.


But back to my original line of questioning:
If that billionaire is paying just shy $10 million in taxes via state and local taxes, plus $1.4M property taxes in that same year, then my question still stands. They're paying more in taxes that year than a McDonalds employee will ever pay in their lifetime.

For fiscal year 2020
If instead of
$0 Federal
$10M state and local
$1.4M property

it had been
$7M Federal
$3M State & Local
$1M Property

Would you see that as "better" somehow? And if so, why?

Is it a control thing? Meaning, you'd prefer that people who you approve of would be acting as the discretionary agent over how it gets spent? (IE: you'd rather see Senate Democrats and the Biden Administration weigh in on how that money is spent instead of Florida republicans?)

Is it a perception thing? The more of it that goes up to the federal government, the better their books look so that it somewhat "conceals" the implications of federal tax & spend initiatives?

 

[rjs330]

I'm not against a flat tax. Everybody pays their share. What I don't like is billionaires like Donald Trump paying $0 in income tax when a part-time employee at Wendy's pays more taxes than a billionaire. Do you feel me on that?

First of all someone working part time at Wendy's won't pay income taxes either. Nearly 50% of Americans don't pay income taxes. Including Trump apparently due to losses he could legally claim on his taxes. I have no problem with him not paying due to legal deductions. Just like anyone else. He's most likely paid a lot of taxes in his lifetime. Far more than you or I will ever pay.

I think everyone should pay. That's why I support the flat tax.

 

[MrMoe]

Can’t stand him yet sings his praises with every word after that first line, pull the other one.

Would you have believed them if they'd praised him after the second line?

 

[Desk trauma]

Would you have believed them if they'd praised him after the second line?

Unlikely, adding a second line of feigned dislike before gushing praise for every attribute of the man wouldn’t be much more convincing.

 

[Postvieww]

The USA is electing the leader of the Free World. Trump is someone intent on destroying the basis of those freedoms in his attacks on international diplomacy and NATO. A vote for isolationists is the end of American hegemony, a run on the dollar, bankruptcy, and a new period of global instability and war. Maybe the real lesson of a Trump victory for the rest of us would be regret for empowering America with so much clout in the first place.

Nothing charged in this post is true. It just shows how much the liberal machine has infected the narrative about Trump. How can a person have lived through the last almost 4 years without seeing the blunders, deception and harmful policies to this nation?? The liberal lie is like an aphrodisiac to many who unnaturally hate Trump so much that real truth has disappeared to those consumed by the party line.

 

[Postvieww]

I'm not against a flat tax. Everybody pays their share. What I don't like is billionaires like Donald Trump paying $0 in income tax when a part-time employee at Wendy's pays more taxes than a billionaire. Do you feel me on that?

You do realize that whatever tax benefits or loopholes exist are placed there by our politicians who benefit from the same tax law. The tax problem was not created by Donald Trump he only uses the tax law to his benefit just has you or I and all of the politicians who created it. It is the height of hypocrisy from liberal politicians who shout pay your fair share when they benefit from from the same tax law they helped to create. If you want a system where everyone is on equal footing support the elimination of income tax and go to a sales tax.

 

[rturner76]

Despite pulling in nearly $11 million in interest from investments in addition to his nearly $400,000 salary, Trump did not pay income taxes because he also reported a $16 million loss from his real estate businesses. That loss put the former president almost $5 million in the red for 2020.
That means he didn’t have any taxable income and he didn’t pay anything in income tax.

I think they call that "creative accounting." I know that one tactic he uses is taking out huge mortgages on his towers so he can claim the debt while he is actually making money. He takes out mortgages for his spending money and uses the mortgage to pay for his lifestyle. If he was so broke, wouldn't he seek the protection of bankruptcy? No, he has very high paid accountants that hide his money for him AFAIK.

In one breath pundits are saying "Trump's a mega rich business owner, he should pay more in taxes!"
In the next breath "Trump's not actually a good business man, see?? Look how he loses millions of dollars year over year on his businesses!"

Which is it? If it's the latter, then that's why he's able to negotiate his tax bill down.


But back to my original line of questioning:
If that billionaire is paying just shy $10 million in taxes via state and local taxes, plus $1.4M property taxes in that same year, then my question still stands. They're paying more in taxes that year than a McDonalds employee will ever pay in their lifetime.

For fiscal year 2020
If instead of
$0 Federal
$10M state and local
$1.4M property

it had been
$7M Federal
$3M State & Local
$1M Property

Would you see that as "better" somehow? And if so, why?

It would depend on what he is actually making and not hiding. I don't know Don's tax bill but I read something about him not paying Federal taxes for quite a while and that's why he is audited like every other year. Then he spend like a whole year fighting the audit. So it's something that is puzzling to me. What isn't puzzling to me is how someone with a few billions in the bank, investments, and huge rental properties skates with $0 in Fed taxes unless that are doing something dishonest. In a practical way, when you see someone flying around in a private helicopter and they pay less taxes than someone scrubbing toilets something just doesn't smell right.

Is it a control thing? Meaning, you'd prefer that people who you approve of would be acting as the discretionary agent over how it gets spent? (IE: you'd rather see Senate Democrats and the Biden Administration weigh in on how that money is spent instead of Florida republicans?)

Is it a perception thing? The more of it that goes up to the federal government, the better their books look so that it somewhat "conceals" the implications of federal tax & spend initiatives

I can say in all honesty, YES. I would like to see Democrats allocate Federal dollars more than Florida Republicans. Democrats support things like public school, medical care, and food support. Florida Republicans would more likely support vouchers so rich people can send their kids to private school for free or at a discount and they seem to care nothing about a social safety net. They seem to be more interested in making it easier for people to buy assault rifles and banning books. Not good IMO.

The bottom line, rich people should pay their fair share.

First of all someone working part time at Wendy's won't pay income taxes either. Nearly 50% of Americans don't pay income taxes. Including Trump apparently due to losses he could legally claim on his taxes. I have no problem with him not paying due to legal deductions. Just like anyone else. He's most likely paid a lot of taxes in his lifetime. Far more than you or I will ever pay.

I think everyone should pay. That's why I support the flat tax.

Wendy's employees pay the taxes but they can get most of it back if they have some accounting skills or pay H&R Block or whoever to do their taxes. I prefer TaxAct myself. A simple 1040 with no deductions is free. But I can get on board with a flat tax. Like you said "everyone should pay." But I still think there should be some kind of consideration for the working poor.

 

[RoBo1988]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/10/23/kamala_harris_do_not_despair_lets_not_let_the_overwhelming_nature_of_all_this_make_us_feel_powerless.html

VP Harris also reminds me of people that I have worked with over my 40 plus years.

Usually they are lifetime college students, taking management courses, but never turned a wrench, or had dirt under their fingernails. They are usually a walking corporate buzz word machine, and cannot relate to those who are beneath them.

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON
This thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum, the American Politics forum.
ADMIN HAT OFF

 

[Postvieww]

The bottom line, rich people should pay their fair share.

Liberals love to shout the rich should pay their fair share and do so even more in election season all the while they themselves use the same laws and loopholes to their benefit like everyone else.

 

[Lukaris]

I work general labor warehouse jobs and was in long term temp status during 2015-17. I didn’t have benefits, remember the online problems of the “affordable” care act ( I shouldn’t fear identity theft after all)it didn’t seem so “affordable”, had to pay the $700 annual shakedown penalty, had no tax refunds. I was able to pay my bills and not on skid row to put matters in context.

Trump becomes president; I get a tax refund, the shakedown fee ( from the obamafia) disappeared. Outside of my little world, ISIS ( you know, the “junior league”?) disappeared, the Ukraine war stagnated ( but didn’t escalate), the economy was good, crime dropped, immigration policy improved, the Middle East was better off etc.

Meanwhile dark forces helped to create a pandemic for us all.

Anthony Fauci gives misleading, evasive answers about NIH-funded research at Wuhan lab

At a congressional hearing, Anthony Fauci tried to dismiss credible claims that his agency funded gain-of-function research.

reason.com

Now we are back to square one and some of our old friends are back, just like old times.

The return of al-Qaeda and Islamic State

The drums of global jihadism are again sounding around the world

www.telegraph.co.uk

Oh yeah, I forgot Trump wants to make me pay more taxes and let the zillionaires have even more to get fatter with. I also no longer get a tax refund from the syndicate that says Trump wants me to pay taxes for the zillionaires.

 

[Postvieww]

I don't agree. Income ta is paying tax on your income (obviously). Paying sales tax on your new helicopter isn't the same as paying taxes on your income. Skirting the income tax on the billion dollar profit you made is just theft. They justify it like you did but it's wrong that a McDonald's employee should pay more in income tax that a billionaire. That's just bottom line. Billionaires need to pay income tax on what they earn. Creative accounting is theft.

Do you take the deductions allowed by law ? I bet you do! Even Joe Biden has benefited from existing tax law. This rant about paying your fair share is liberal nonsense. Democrats don’t want to pay more taxes they just want a propaganda talking point.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It would depend on what he is actually making and not hiding. I don't know Don's tax bill but I read something about him not paying Federal taxes for quite a while and that's why he is audited like every other year. Then he spend like a whole year fighting the audit. So it's something that is puzzling to me. What isn't puzzling to me is how someone with a few billions in the bank, investments, and huge rental properties skates with $0 in Fed taxes unless that are doing something dishonest. In a practical way, when you see someone flying around in a private helicopter and they pay less taxes than someone scrubbing toilets something just doesn't smell right.

If a rich guy is actually losing money, but is still rich, how do you calculate how much they should pay in federal income taxes?

Practically speaking, how is that any different than a well-to-do person who is retired, doesn't work anymore, and doesn't pay income tax?

In that regard, certain state taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes are a better mechanism for those scenarios than an income tax, wouldn't you agree?

I don't think it would take any creative accounting, as you called it, for a person who's in the real-estate business, and with the lion's share of their properties being hotels, resorts, and golf courses, to show losses during covid. I think it's pretty universally understood that all vacation/hospitality sectors took a pretty big hit during those 2 years when a lot of stuff was shutdown or only allowed to operate at limited capacity.

I can say in all honesty, YES. I would like to see Democrats allocate Federal dollars more than Florida Republicans. Democrats support things like public school, medical care, and food support. Florida Republicans would more likely support vouchers so rich people can send their kids to private school for free or at a discount and they seem to care nothing about a social safety net. They seem to be more interested in making it easier for people to buy assault rifles and banning books. Not good IMO.

The bottom line, rich people should pay their fair share.

So then that's the crux of your position. It's not rich people aren't paying their fair share. ("Fair share" is a subjective term anyway)

The 400 wealthiest American taxpayers actually pay an average federal income tax rate of around 23%. (Per WaPo via IRS data)

It's that you want a bigger share of the tax money they are paying to land under the purview of the decision makers who you agree with rather than the ones you don't.

 

[rjs330]

You do realize that whatever tax benefits or loopholes exist are placed there by our politicians who benefit from the same tax law. The tax problem was not created by Donald Trump he only uses the tax law to his benefit just has you or I and all of the politicians who created it. It is the height of hypocrisy from liberal politicians who shout pay your fair share when they benefit from from the same tax law they helped to create. If you want a system where everyone is on equal footing support the elimination of income tax and go to a sales tax.

Absolutely. I've been in favor with a flat tax, but if we wanted to go with a sales.tax and eliminate i come raxes all together, I'd be okay with that too.

 

[MrMoe]

Unlikely, adding a second line of feigned dislike before gushing praise for every attribute of the man wouldn’t be much more convincing.

I wonder how you figured out it is feigned.

And it seems you didn't read the rest of the post because it's clear he's only praising what Trump will do, not praising his character which he made clear in the first post he cannot stand. Believe it or not, it's possible to dislike a candidate's character while liking their policies.

 

[Diamond72]

Maybe because they support his policies

Maybe because he can get the job done if you like him or not.
He comes in below budget ahead of schedule.
Trump works with people he does not like.

They are critical of Musk because he does not always come in on time but he is very aggressive in the time he sets. He built space x in Texas in less than a year and it would have taken anyone else anywhere else 3 years to get the job done.

 

[NxNW]

Maybe because he can get the job done if you like him or not.

I haven't seen him get much of anything done.

He comes in below budget ahead of schedule.

Under budget because he does not pay anyone for their work. He has a proven track record of theft.