I can't stand Trump... But I'm Voting for Him

[rjs330]

Here in the US we elect our governments. Sometimes we elect good governments. sometimes bad governments, but we always get the government we deserve. So if Trump wins in November, I will at least have the satisfaction of knowing that fellow and those like him are truly getting the government they deserve.

We certainly will. And if Harris wins we'll get the government we deserve also.

 

[mindlight]

Here in the US we elect our governments. Sometimes we elect good governments. sometimes bad governments, but we always get the government we deserve. So if Trump wins in November, I will at least have the satisfaction of knowing that fellow and those like him are truly getting the government they deserve.

The USA is electing the leader of the Free World. Trump is someone intent on destroying the basis of those freedoms in his attacks on international diplomacy and NATO. A vote for isolationists is the end of American hegemony, a run on the dollar, bankruptcy, and a new period of global instability and war. Maybe the real lesson of a Trump victory for the rest of us would be regret for empowering America with so much clout in the first place.

 

[BCP1928]

The USA is electing the leader of the Free World. Trump is someone intent on destroying the basis of those freedoms in his attacks on international diplomacy and NATO. A vote for isolationists is the end of American hegemony, a run on the dollar, bankruptcy, and a new period of global instability and war. Maybe the real lesson of a Trump victory for the rest of us would be regret for empowering America with so much clout in the first place.

Many Americans also think it was a mistake. But the solution is not for us just to cut and run

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No, they just complain about it. Don't you remember Romney's infamous 50% speech?

Yep, I do...

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/09/18/161333783/romneys-wrong-and-right-about-the-47-percent

He was basically giving his own (inelegant) paraphrased version of that old saying: "He who robs Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul"

 

[RileyG]

You can still catch Dr Paul on Facebook, YouTube. He would have been a great president. America whiffed on that election cycle.

I agree, but he’s probably getting towards the end of his life, now. It’s a shame he didn’t win in 2008, he would have been a much better president than Obama.

 

[RileyG]

Mebbe he meant Rand Paul

His son? Maybe.

 

[rjs330]

The USA is electing the leader of the Free World. Trump is someone intent on destroying the basis of those freedoms in his attacks on international diplomacy and NATO. A vote for isolationists is the end of American hegemony, a run on the dollar, bankruptcy, and a new period of global instability and war. Maybe the real lesson of a Trump victory for the rest of us would be regret for empowering America with so much clout in the first place.

First off he never did attack NATO, he unlike you, believes that everyone who is part of NATO should be paying their agreed amount and shouldn't be depending on us. Being part of the world doesn't mean we should be funding the world.

a run on the dollar, bankruptcy, and a new period of global instability and war.

In case you haven't noticed we are headed that way now. And Trump isn't in power. Harris is and has been for 3 1/3 years.

 

[durangodawood]

Maybe because they support his policies. The job title is not "Bestie of the United States".

I worked 15 years for a guy like Trump - not someone I wanted to chummy up with, but he built several businesses, that are still going on today (he sold them, and retired). Many of his ex employees went on to start their own businesses themselves.

Trumpy business people will be having some regrets if Trump gets his across the board tariff trade war through.

 

[durangodawood]

...In case you haven't noticed we are headed that way now. And Trump isn't in power. Harris is and has been for 3 1/3 years.

Yes the immense power of the vice-presidency!

 

[rturner76]

However, I will pushback on the notion that a billionaire doesn't pay taxes. They may have crafty ways to skirt federal income taxes, but that's just one facet of taxation, unless that billionaire owns nothing, buys nothing, and employs nobody, they're still paying more taxes in a year than you or I are likely paying in a lifetime, just through different channels.

I don't agree. Income ta is paying tax on your income (obviously). Paying sales tax on your new helicopter isn't the same as paying taxes on your income. Skirting the income tax on the billion dollar profit you made is just theft. They justify it like you did but it's wrong that a McDonald's employee should pay more in income tax that a billionaire. That's just bottom line. Billionaires need to pay income tax on what they earn. Creative accounting is theft.

 

[rturner76]

The OP article isn’t even that - it’s a ploy to keep TrumpFans engaged and generate clicks. Nobody who’s not a TrumpFan/MuskSimp is going to be convinced by this.

Real talk

 

[rturner76]

But, federal income taxes aren't the only taxes, like I said before....

When it comes to funding for certain public institutions, a person paying $2 million in property taxes (which in many states, directly funds schools) is doing just as much (if not more) a person who pays a little more in federal taxes, only for it to get transferred up to the federal government, and then back down to the individual school districts via a very "leaky bucket".

Even if Trump (or people like Trump) literally paid $0 in federal income taxes over the course of their life, they've paid more in payroll tax, sales tax, and property tax (that still goes toward the public good) in a year than most will pay in their life time.

People tend to get too fixated on the narrow singular form of taxation (income tax) where the top end enjoys some "exclusive benefits". You can certainly make a reasonable case against that sort of thing, and I'll likely be sympathetic to some of your arguments, but this notion that "billionaires are getting a free ride while contributing nothing" is a flat-out falsehood.

If someone lives in a $20 million dollar home, even if they found a way to pay $0 in federal income tax, they're still contributing more to the public good via other forms of taxation than 100 "regular people" combined.

We're talking about guys whose property taxes, alone, probably cover 10% of a local schools yearly operating budget by themselves.

All that fancy talk is great but the bottom line is pay your income taxes whether you pay high taxes on your mansion or golf course, if you make a billion, you should pay taxes on it. Why should people pay income tax when they work at a car wash or Burger King and a person who nets a billion dollars be exempt from Federal tax? I don't care what they paid in real estate tax or retail tax. Everybody pays tax on their income. Please explain why a person who nets a billion dollars should pay no Federal tax on that billion.

 

[RoBo1988]

Yes the immense power of the vice-presidency!

She already said she would do nothing differently.

 

[rjs330]

Yes the immense power of the vice-presidency

Hasn't she said she's been a part of it all? With Biden on rhe decline who was running the show? What has she done to at least try and stop it? Where's this great leadership the proves she is the one to stop.whats going on?

 

[rjs330]

I don't agree. Income ta is paying tax on your income (obviously). Paying sales tax on your new helicopter isn't the same as paying taxes on your income. Skirting the income tax on the billion dollar profit you made is just theft. They justify it like you did but it's wrong that a McDonald's employee should pay more in income tax that a billionaire. That's just bottom line. Billionaires need to pay income tax on what they earn. Creative accounting is theft.

Did you somehow miss rhe part where the 1% pay a large amount of rhe INCOME taxes? If what you say is true rhe amount should be zero. But its not.

Who pays the most income tax? | USAFacts

In 2022, the top 5% of earners collectively paid over $1.3 trillion in income taxes, or about 61% of the national total.

usafacts.org

 

[durangodawood]

Hasn't she said she's been a part of it all? With Biden on rhe decline who was running the show? What has she done to at least try and stop it? Where's this great leadership the proves she is the one to stop.whats going on?

Bidens judgement still seems good enough. Where he clearly failed was at the quick verbal sparring thats at the center of campaigning.

That said I did not want to gamble on Bidens judgement remaining good for another few years.

 

[rturner76]

Did you somehow miss rhe part where the 1% pay a large amount of rhe INCOME taxes? If what you say is true rhe amount should be zero. But its not.

Who pays the most income tax? | USAFacts

In 2022, the top 5% of earners collectively paid over $1.3 trillion in income taxes, or about 61% of the national total.

usafacts.org

Funny but creative accountants slip through thetax laws. Take you fearless leader Donald Trump. He pays absolutely nothing in income tax. Do you approve of that when you have to pay income tax on what you make?

 

[Paulos23]

Bidens judgement still seems good enough. Where he clearly failed was at the quick verbal sparring thats at the center of campaigning.

That said I did not want to gamble on Bidens judgement remaining good for another few years.

Based on how much wealth they hold in comparison to the rest of the 99%, it is not enough.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

All that fancy talk is great but the bottom line is pay your income taxes whether you pay high taxes on your mansion or golf course, if you make a billion, you should pay taxes on it. Why should people pay income tax when they work at a car wash or Burger King and a person who nets a billion dollars be exempt from Federal tax? I don't care what they paid in real estate tax or retail tax. Everybody pays tax on their income. Please explain why a person who nets a billion dollars should pay no Federal tax on that billion.

I don't agree. Income ta is paying tax on your income (obviously). Paying sales tax on your new helicopter isn't the same as paying taxes on your income. Skirting the income tax on the billion dollar profit you made is just theft. They justify it like you did but it's wrong that a McDonald's employee should pay more in income tax that a billionaire. That's just bottom line. Billionaires need to pay income tax on what they earn. Creative accounting is theft.

The underlying question would be... Why?

1) Why is that particular channel of taxation so sought after? If a person finds a way to reduce their federal income tax burden to next to nothing (instead of the 30-something percent they'd pay using a 1040-EZ form with a standard deduction, but still pays taxation (in the millions) toward the common good through 4 or 5 other taxation-based revenue streams, why is that such a sticking point for some people?

I suspect I know why that is...it's because many of those other forms of taxation still give the payer a level of control of what's being done with their money, as where federal income taxes can be used for pet projects and certain forms of spending whether the payer approves of it or not. I think it has to do with the difference in philosophy on "should people have control over what the government does with their money?"

When you pay property taxes, sales taxes, and even to a lesser degree local/state income taxes. You do have some measure of control. For instance, if I don't like what city/state XYZ is doing with their money, I can move to a different city/state. Same applies for property taxes. For sales tax...if I think county A is unwisely using money, I can drive 10 minutes to a different county to make certain purchases in county B.



2) Given that most of us here try to reduce our federal income tax burden as much as possible (through various deductions, etc...), are we all guilty of theft? I certainly tried to find every way I could to maximize my tax refund last year. If lessening ones tax burden is "theft", by that logic, H&R Block and TurboTax are accomplices to theft.

Suggesting that trying to reduce ones own federal income tax burden is theft almost sounds like the inverse of the (somewhat ridiculous) anarcho-capitalist libertarian slogan of "taxation is theft"


But in practical terms, what percentage of a person's money do you think the collective is entitled to?, toss out a number and we can discuss

As noted, while certain wealthy business owners have found a way to report losses to eliminate their federal tax burden on specific fiscal years, nobody's made it through life tax-free (except for perhaps people like the Amish). While you can point to a few "zero federal tax" years for Trump (and people like Trump) when his businesses were going belly-up, in 2017 and 2018, he paid north of a million dollars in federal income taxes each of those years

On on the years like 2020 that people like to pinpoint where he paid zero federal income tax, he paid a combined $8.5 million between state and local taxes. (and another $1.4 million in property taxes on commercial holdings)
(source: Bloomberg)

 

[rjs330]

Funny but creative accountants slip through thetax laws. Take you fearless leader Donald Trump. He pays absolutely nothing in income tax. Do you approve of that when you have to pay income tax on what you make?

Accountants don't "slip through the tax laws". They abide by them.

This is why I support a flat tax. As long as we have tax laws that allow deductions we are going to have people who can LEGALLY use those deductions. You have NO RIGHT to complain about someone using the legal methods of deductions. You might as well be complaining about your neigjbor using is expensive mortgage as a deduction. Or complain rhat someone is going 75 mph in a 75 mph zone just because you think it should be 55.

It's nonsensical.

I'm for a flat tax. No.deductions. You just pay from your income. Whatever it is.