I and my father are one

[czach8]

I have no argument. But since I consider Judaism to be a false religion, this does not concern me very much.

So then all prohecies of the Messiah in Judaism are false? What you are then saying is that Christianity is false. I think you are confused brother.

 

[Gott]

I have no argument. But since I consider Judaism to be a false religion, this does not concern me very much.

You have no argument is correct.
It should concern you quite a bit considering "Every Bit" of Christianity is supposed to be spoken about from this false religion?
Remember, The old defines the new.
How do you determine which parts of the Old Testament were really written by God, and which ones were written by the Hand of this False Religion.
So If your view of Judaism is as a false religion, then how do you determine that Christianity is the true religion "assuming' that judaism is the false one.
And why support a re-establishment of the land of Israel (If you do) If judaism is "False."
Wouldn't you be supporting a "False Religion"

 

[czach8]

You have no argument is correct.
It should concern you quite a bit considering "Every Bit" of Christianity is supposed to be spoken about from this false religion?
Remember, The old defines the new.
How do you determine which parts of the Old Testament were really written by God, and which ones were written by the Hand of this False Religion.
So If your view of Judaism is as a false religion, then how do you determine that Christianity is the true religion "assuming' that judaism is the false one.
And why support a re-establishment of the land of Israel (If you do) If judaism is "False."
Wouldn't you be supporting a "False Religion"

As of now, I will assume he is saying Christianity is false.

 

[Gott]

As of now, I will assume he is saying Christianity is false.

No this is what he say's

ARNUMA
I am not saying that Christianity has no basis in the religion of the Israelites. The traditional Christian belief is that the church is identical to Israel, which is the covenant people of God. As such, I fully believe that the Old Testament is inspired (Even though Judaism is a false religion) Scripture along with the New. My point is that I view the Old Testament as Christian Scripture (Personal belief) rather than a Jewish text. What I mean to say is that I do not equate modern Judaism with the religion of the Israelites. Does this clarify my doctrinal position?

He just doesn't see his own fallacy

He doesn't equate modern judaism with the religion of the israelites.
That should be a good thing, seeing that "Picking up sticks" on the sabbath was punishable by stoning.

Since He thinks modern judaism is a false religion compared with the religion of the israelites, I would like to know what gives him any authority, or justification to say this other than it being of his own opinion.


He say's the Church is identical with the israelites, but this teaching comes from Paul not any other's.
If the Church is identical with the israelites then why arent they performing Sacrifices as an act of worship commanded by God.
Why arent all "False Prophets" of today stoned?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Why arent all "False Prophets" of today stoned?

Shush, don't give them the wrong ideas!

 

[czach8]

No this is what he say's




He just doesn't see his own fallacy

He doesn't equate modern judaism with the religion of the israelites.
That should be a good thing, seeing that "Picking up sticks" on the sabbath was punishable by stoning.

Since He thinks modern judaism is a false religion compared with the religion of the israelites, I would like to know what gives him any authority, or justification to say this other than it being of his own opinion.


He say's the Church is identical with the israelites, but this teaching comes from Paul not any other's.
If the Church is identical with the israelites then why arent they performing Sacrifices as an act of worship commanded by God.
Why arent all "False Prophets" of today stoned?

Actually you are right. He is saying it is false.

 

[arunma]

And why support a re-establishment of the land of Israel (If you do) If judaism is "False."
Wouldn't you be supporting a "False Religion"

I do not consider the creation of the State of Israel to be a fulfillment of any Biblical prophecy.

Anyway, you've made a rather interesting statement.

No this is what he say's




He just doesn't see his own fallacy

He doesn't equate modern judaism with the religion of the israelites.
That should be a good thing, seeing that "Picking up sticks" on the sabbath was punishable by stoning.

Since He thinks modern judaism is a false religion compared with the religion of the israelites, I would like to know what gives him any authority, or justification to say this other than it being of his own opinion.


He say's the Church is identical with the israelites, but this teaching comes from Paul not any other's.
If the Church is identical with the israelites then why arent they performing Sacrifices as an act of worship commanded by God.
Why arent all "False Prophets" of today stoned?

You seem to admit freely that the Apostle Paul taught that the church is the true Israel. Yet earlier you asked me to justify my position. This is akin to commenting that "the teachings of Islam come from Mohammad, not any others." To Chrstians, the writings of the Apostle Paul are the written word of God. So you have essentially answered your own question.

 

[Gott]

I do not consider the creation of the State of Israel to be a fulfillment of any Biblical prophecy.

Anyway, you've made a rather interesting statement.



You seem to admit freely that the Apostle Paul taught that the church is the true Israel. Yet earlier you asked me to justify my position. This is akin to commenting that "the teachings of Islam come from Mohammad, not any others." To Chrstians, the writings of the Apostle Paul are the written word of God. So you have essentially answered your own question.

Hi.

I asked.

Since He thinks modern judaism is a false religion compared with the religion of the israelites, I would like to know what gives him any authority, or justification to say this other than it being of his own opinion.

Meaning you assume that Ancient Israel didn't practice a false religion, but a true religion and the religion that they practice today is a false religion.

I asked you by what gives you authority (Source) to declare or to justify this other than your own opinion?

To Chrstians, the writings of the Apostle Paul are the written word of God. So you have essentially answered your own question

No. Naturally they would be "Pauls letters (If He was the author)"
and not the written word of God.
God could have written his own words without the Help of a man, I mean he did create all things out of nothing right?

How have I answered my own questions?
thanks.

 

[arunma]

No. Naturally they would be "Pauls letters (If He was the author)"
and not the written word of God.
God could have written his own words without the Help of a man, I mean he did create all things out of nothing right?

How have I answered my own questions?
thanks.

I'm sorry, then, Gott. If you will not accept for the sake of argument that all portions of the Bible are the inspired words of God, then I can't give any meaningful response to your question. My belief that the church is Israel is based on the premise that Scripture comes by the inspiration of God.

 

[Gott]

I'm sorry, then, Gott. If you will not accept for the sake of argument that all portions of the Bible are the inspired words of God, then I can't give any meaningful response to your question. My belief that the church is Israel is based on the premise that Scripture comes by the inspiration of God.

No Problem Arnuma.

Just for the sake of argument wouldn't work either, because there are 1000's of denomonations with a different interpretation on "that."
You can't say that my "certain" denomonation has all the right answers, because the next denomonation can say the same thing using the exact same bible to explain their interpretation. The only difference is "group A" has the right answer and "group B" does not, and both can prove their correct out of the same bible.

But again An "All Powerful God" would not be in need of his fallin creation to express his own words that he himself could have pre- destined to have written down in every language for every culture at the beginning of time perfectly preserving them from any errors or destruction "knowing" that every culture and generation would have been informed of his "plan" for all mankind, but this didn't happen.
Instead the current bible that you read today has been revised 1000's of times, and was voted to exist by a council whose leader was a ruthless murderer.
Sorry no offence I hope

 

[corvus_corax]

Cause Yogis can do all the things Jesus did.

Wow! That's awesome!

Walk on liquid water without sinking or without using any sub water surface- level supports.*

Turn water into wine with but a thought.*

Heal someone of Hansen's disease without any medical knowledge or procedures.*

Rise from the dead 2-4 days later after being crucified and pierced through the side by a spear.*

Raise somebody else from the dead 4 days after they have died.*

Cure deafness and blindness without medical intervention*

Curse a tree to die, and watch it do such before your very eyes*

Calm a storm, immediately, with but a word*



Or at least produce objective empirical data that the Yogis have done these things.


*Im not saying that Jesus ever did any of these things. Im just confronting your claim of "Yogis can do all the things Jesus did", which only leaves you with two choices-
1- Jesus did nothing miraculous, in which case (according to your claim), neither do Yogis. Or at least they cant perform that which is described as those miraculous things that Jesus did (in which case, they are no different than I)
or
2- Yogis can reproduce (and, I would hope, do so empirically and objectively), under the same circumstances and within the given descriptions, every miracle that Jesus supposedly performed.


Pick your poison.

 

[arunma]

Instead the current bible that you read today has been revised 1000's of times, and was voted to exist by a council whose leader was a ruthless murderer.
Sorry no offence I hope

Certainly no offense, but your information is not correct. Assuming you mean to refer to the First Nicene Council, this council met to discuss two primary issues and a few secondary concerns. And none of them were on the issue of the Biblical canon. The canon was, in fact, only confirmed three-quarters of a century after the First Nicene Council, and the Councils of Hippo and Carthage, neither of which was an ecumenical council.

 

[vedickings]

Wow! That's awesome!

Walk on liquid water without sinking or without using any sub water surface- level supports.*

Turn water into wine with but a thought.*

Heal someone of Hansen's disease without any medical knowledge or procedures.*

Rise from the dead 2-4 days later after being crucified and pierced through the side by a spear.*

Raise somebody else from the dead 4 days after they have died.*

Cure deafness and blindness without medical intervention*

Curse a tree to die, and watch it do such before your very eyes*

Calm a storm, immediately, with but a word*



Or at least produce objective empirical data that the Yogis have done these things.


*Im not saying that Jesus ever did any of these things. Im just confronting your claim of "Yogis can do all the things Jesus did", which only leaves you with two choices-
1- Jesus did nothing miraculous, in which case (according to your claim), neither do Yogis. Or at least they cant perform that which is described as those miraculous things that Jesus did (in which case, they are no different than I)
or
2- Yogis can reproduce (and, I would hope, do so empirically and objectively), under the same circumstances and within the given descriptions, every miracle that Jesus supposedly performed.


Pick your poison.

The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali enumerate a number of sidhis or supernatural powers that have been observed by yogis in their practice. These sidhis include knowledge of the past and future; understanding the sounds of animals; recalling the experiences of one's previous incarnations; knowing the thoughts of another mind; making oneself invisible; an intuitive understanding of psychological, spiritual and physical phenomena; physical strength comparable to that of an elephant; the ability to live without eating or drinking; extrasensory perception of sound, touch, sight, taste and smell; entering consciously into the body of another person; levitation of the body in space; the ability to heal physical and spiritual wounds or disease; the ability to become as minute as an atom or to expand oneself into a space and become as large as any entity; the power of fulfilling all wishes and desires; the power to change destiny; the ability to overcome attachment to idiosyncrasies, prejudices, anger, and narrow-mindedness toward others.
Staal (1975) notes that the various powers, called either sidhi orvibhuti, are said, in the Yoga Sutras, to accompany a high State of concentration known as samprajnata samadhi. However, this is not considered the highest state of yogic attainment, Which is called asamprajnata samadhi. The 37th verse of the third book of the Yoga Sutras contains the following verse, translated by Woods (1914/1972), which has been interpreted by many practitioners as an injunction against the use of psychic powers by yogis: “In concentration these [supernal activities] are obstacles; in the emergent state they are perfection (sidhi).”Staal notes that oftentimes scholars of yoga or leaders of various contemporary mystical cults and movements take a puritanical attitude against the development of psychic abilities. He states that “religious and moral prejudices, Indian as well as Western, have obscured the fact that these powers are an integral part of Yoga.”

 

[corvus_corax]

The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali enumerate a number of sidhis or supernatural powers that have been observed by yogis in their practice. These sidhis include knowledge of the past and future; understanding the sounds of animals; recalling the experiences of one's previous incarnations; knowing the thoughts of another mind; making oneself invisible; an intuitive understanding of psychological, spiritual and physical phenomena; physical strength comparable to that of an elephant; the ability to live without eating or drinking; extrasensory perception of sound, touch, sight, taste and smell; entering consciously into the body of another person; levitation of the body in space; the ability to heal physical and spiritual wounds or disease; the ability to become as minute as an atom or to expand oneself into a space and become as large as any entity; the power of fulfilling all wishes and desires; the power to change destiny; the ability to overcome attachment to idiosyncrasies, prejudices, anger, and narrow-mindedness toward others.
Staal (1975) notes that the various powers, called either sidhi orvibhuti, are said, in the Yoga Sutras, to accompany a high State of concentration known as samprajnata samadhi. However, this is not considered the highest state of yogic attainment, Which is called asamprajnata samadhi. The 37th verse of the third book of the Yoga Sutras contains the following verse, translated by Woods (1914/1972), which has been interpreted by many practitioners as an injunction against the use of psychic powers by yogis: “In concentration these [supernal activities] are obstacles; in the emergent state they are perfection (sidhi).”Staal notes that oftentimes scholars of yoga or leaders of various contemporary mystical cults and movements take a puritanical attitude against the development of psychic abilities. He states that “religious and moral prejudices, Indian as well as Western, have obscured the fact that these powers are an integral part of Yoga.”

IOW. you cant back up your claims any more than Christians can regarding their Christ.
So don't say that the Yogis "have" done such. Say, rather, that you believe (in no different way that Christians believe), that they have done so (historically) but no longer do so

 

[vedickings]

IOW. you cant back up your claims any more than Christians can regarding their Christ.
So don't say that the Yogis "have" done such. Say, rather, that you believe (in no different way that Christians believe), that they have done so (historically) but no longer do so

Oh I agree with you 100% I wasn't saying that what I say is a fact, but just pointing out that yogis can do what Jesus could do, as far as beliefs go.

 

[Gott]

Certainly no offense, but your information is not correct. Assuming you mean to refer to the First Nicene Council, this council met to discuss two primary issues and a few secondary concerns. And none of them were on the issue of the Biblical canon. The canon was, in fact, only confirmed three-quarters of a century after the First Nicene Council, and the Councils of Hippo and Carthage, neither of which was an ecumenical council.

No I was not referring to the creed.
Which by the way was formulated to combat arianism.

You might want to read up on that again.

The KJV was authorized due to the geneva bible of that time. The "King" did not like the translation because of what the footnotes revealed.

In 1620 the Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth with their Bibles and a conviction derived from those Bibles of establishing a new nation. The Bible was not the King James Version. When James I became king of England in 1603, there were two translations of the Bible in use; the Geneva Bible was the most popular, and the Bishops' Bible was used for reading in churches. King James disapproved of the Geneva Bible because of its Calvinistic leanings. He also frowned on what he considered to be seditious marginal notes on key political texts. A marginal note for Exodus 1:9 indicated that the Hebrew midwives were correct in disobeying the Egyptian king's orders, and a note for 2 Chronicles 15:16 said that King Asa should have had his mother executed and not merely deposed for the crime of worshipping an idol. The King James Version of the Bible grew out of the king's distaste for these brief but potent doctrinal commentaries. He considered the marginal notes to be a political threat to his kingdom.
At a conference at Hampton Court in 1604 with bishops and theologians, the king listened to a suggestion by the Puritan scholar John Reynolds that a new translation of the Bible was needed. Because of his distaste for the Geneva Bible, James was eager for a new translation. "I profess," he said, "I could never yet see a Bible well translated in English; but I think that, of all, that of Geneva is the worst."
Yet this is supposed to be the "Spoken Word"

 

[Eudaimonist]

The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali enumerate a number of sidhis or supernatural powers that have been observed by yogis in their practice. These sidhis include knowledge of the past and future; understanding the sounds of animals; recalling the experiences of one's previous incarnations; knowing the thoughts of another mind; making oneself invisible; an intuitive understanding of psychological, spiritual and physical phenomena; physical strength comparable to that of an elephant; the ability to live without eating or drinking; extrasensory perception of sound, touch, sight, taste and smell; entering consciously into the body of another person; levitation of the body in space; the ability to heal physical and spiritual wounds or disease; the ability to become as minute as an atom or to expand oneself into a space and become as large as any entity; the power of fulfilling all wishes and desires; the power to change destiny; the ability to overcome attachment to idiosyncrasies, prejudices, anger, and narrow-mindedness toward others.

This sounds more like the power list of a character class in Dungeons & Dragons than anything else. Have all of these powers been demonstrated today?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[morningstar2651]

Hi,

This statement from Jesus " I and my father are one", is what the yogis believe as well. But the only differences is that yogis believe all are one with God.

I wonder if Jesus could have gotting this idea from the yogis which have lived way before his time.

Just a thought.

[bible]Matthew 25:31-46[/bible]
What are your thoughts on this bit of the Bible? To me, 25:40 and 25:45 both have a very pantheistic sound to them.

 

[Carico]

Hi,

This statement from Jesus " I and my father are one", is what the yogis believe as well. But the only differences is that yogis believe all are one with God.

I wonder if Jesus could have gotting this idea from the yogis which have lived way before his time.

Just a thought.

Talk about something with no evidence! Sorry, but not only is there zero evidence anywhere in history that Jesus sojourned to India, but one needs to read his words to see why he didn't get his beliefs from anyone in the world.

 

[czach8]

Talk about something with no evidence! Sorry, but not only is there zero evidence anywhere in history that Jesus sojourned to India, but one needs to read his words to see why he didn't get his beliefs from anyone in the world.

If Jesus is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent, then who are you to say that He never visited India. Jesus does not even have walk to India, He can simply go there with the snap of His fingers. He does not even have to snap His fingers, for He knows all things.

Let me ask you this. Did Jesus know at that time what every single person was doing in the world? Did He know what a Yogi was? Did He know where India was? Did He know about India?

God bless all souls.