I am on truth because my scripture says so?

[Hawkins]

Its common argument that I have seen when I have asked Christians why they believe they are on right path and others are wrong. Certainly every religion claims to be truth. People try to say something like "which religion god died for your sins"? Only in Christianity so its the truth. Well that's no proof/reason to believe Christianity is truth. The doctrine itself is no proof its the truth but it must be something different. Please try not to answer similarly but provide strong argument because all scriptures have their doctrines and that itself is no proof.

Do you have the proof the black holes exist? You don't. We all know for a fact that black holes exist but 99.99% of us don't have the evidence. We trust that our scientists have the evidence, we have faith their witnessing stands true. That's how humans get to a truth of any kind, including a scientific truth. This is the process of human witnessing. It means that you don't need to gather the evidence yourself. Our scientists acting as reliable middle man will do the job. What we examine is the credibility and reliability of our scientists to trust their their claims delivered.

On the other hand, scientific truths are just one kind of truth which is verifiable repeatedly. You always have the option not to trust anyone including the scientists. You can always do our own experiments to get to the results. This is so because science is all about a theory behind a repeating or repeatable phenomenon. You can thus do your own experiment/observation/speculation anytime you wish to.

However not all kinds of truth bearing such a repeating characteristic. For an example, historical events don't have such a characteristic. In a sense, you can't make history repeat itself for you to do your own observation or speculation. There is simply no way for you to examine into what your own grandpa of grandpa said on a particular day. You know what he said if a witness wrote it down, and for you to believe with faith. That's how humans can reach the past.

Now how about the future? Humans can reach a future event in a similar fashion. That's we trust the witnesses of God by faith to reach a possible truth lying ahead. This is the only way for humans to reach a possible future truth which is unreachable otherwise, disregarding the fact that the claimed witnesses can be liars. To put it another way, you can disregard what is said by those witnesses thus cut yourself from any possibility of knowing what could possibly lying ahead. Or (better) put faith in by examining the credibility and reliability of the witnesses and their claims.

You choose not to do so simply because you are brainwashed by modern education to think that everything should be a science and thus can be evidenced. In reality however only the repeating phenomena can be concretely evidenced. Evidence of non-repeatable events are all subject to interpretation. They are subject to subjective reasoning and speculation. That's why even in courts juries may come to different conclusions in front of the same evidence. It's rather a subjective vote on an issue. On the other hand, humans are futile about what your grandpa of grandpa said on a particular day. Even when what he said was written down, everyone else today will have to put faith in believing what has been written down, especially under the circumstance that we can't even examine the credibility and reliability of the one who wrote down what your grandpa of grandpa said.

Now you always have the option to disbelieve what is written about what your grandpa of grandpa said, as what he said never concerns your own life. If however what he said concerns your own dead or alive. You may have to reconsider.

Christianity is about a message brought out by those claimed eyewitnesses who are willing to die for what is said. The message is about a future truth possibly lying ahead, under the circumstance that humans lack the capability to examine into a future event to confirm. By the message itself, this possible future concerns everyone's dead or alive.

That's the situation, in case you failed to speculate.

The last but not least question left here could be, "why God doesn't show up to warn everyone if such a danger is lying ahead". The whole situation only stands if God has a good reason to hide behind all this. Christianity is cored on a covenant between God and man, which says that humans need faith in God in order to be saved. This same covenant prevents God from showing up to everyone. If He shows up to everyone it simultaneously means "believing with faith" is no longer possible and that all mankind will end up in hell.

 

[Tayla]

There are claims on scientific errors in bible in beginning itself which can only be rejected through faith like in genesis like sun created on 4th day, earth the third day etc. Can you elaborate what Archeological evidence you are speaking about!, there is denial of lot of history in Christianity by historians so I will not consider that !

Kenneth Kitchen is a good source of information with books about the topic if you are interested.

 

[Godistruth1]

On my own, I have no way of knowing. And I am not so great that I can prove that God's word is true. But God knows, and He is able to communicate.

How do I know that God communicates with me? I pray for how He wants me to answer this. He is better than all which I have seen in various sorts of Christian and other religion. And this is through His Son Jesus.

I have seen how Muslims do not all have the same way of Islam. So, I would say what you consider to be Islam might not be the same as that of other Muslims.

It is a gift of God, if we really are with Him and He is communicating with us and we are getting it right. So, in case I am right, the thanks is only to God. He is my Judge, He knows.

I find He communicates with me personally, in His love, better than what I can or other people can give me. He in His love is gentle and humble and nicely quiet and pleasantly patient and beautifully wonderful in caring and kind affection very pure and sensitive. And Jesus His Son gives us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) in this love, which makes us more and more truly all-loving and unconditional in how we keep sharing in this love with others who are in God's family of His way of relating in love >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

God has created this world better than how any of us humans have made anything, and this love is so much better than any and all sorts of love which I have discovered humans to have. So, this is part of how I know God is sharing with us through Jesus and the Bible says things which match with how God's love is in us >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, I am not perfect enough to be able to know perfectly who God is and how. But this is what I have experienced.

People always have different views in both Christianity & Islam. But there is mainstream in both religions.
I can't verify personal experience because people in Islam also claim miracles and revelation and I know them to be fake or liars.

 

[Godistruth1]

We all know for a fact that black holes exist but 99.99% of us don't have the evidence.

That's a contradicting statement. You know but you don't have proof. What's that supposed to mean?

We trust that our scientists have the evidence, we have faith their witnessing stands true.

I will not agree anything that so called scientists say blindly. No doubt the so called scientists have said evolution to be true which I know is a fake belief.

That's we trust the witnesses of God by faith to reach a possible truth lying ahead.

Too many witnesses to verify. I trust to analyse scriptures as a way to know the truth.
You have made arguments from Christian perspective not from a neutral perspective

 

[Hawkins]

That's a contradicting statement. You know but you don't have proof. What's that supposed to mean?

I will not agree anything that so called scientists say blindly. No doubt the so called scientists have said evolution to be true which I know is a fake belief.

Too many witnesses to verify. I trust to analyse scriptures as a way to know the truth.
You have made arguments from Christian perspective not from a neutral perspective

It doesn't seem to me that you get the point.

Human witnessing is a process to get to a truth. It's not about how you verify the witnesses. It is about without the witnesses you don't have any information. Without them you don't have the Bible itself.

You know for a fact that black hole exists, or don't you?
It is a yes and a fact.

You don't have the evidence, or do you?
It is a no and a fact.

My point is, why so. I want the guy I replied to think about why it is so. In the end, it is all about how the process of human witnessing works.

The credibility and reliability of those witnesses count, simply because there is not a more credible and reliable way than the witnesses themselves martyred for what is said. This itself is part of the said human witnessing process. Today we have videos, tapes and such to backup our witnessing. Still dying for self-testimony is a good way to declare an earnest account of testimony.

 

[Acts2:38]

Jews deny the prophesies in old testament are not referring to Jesus. Although I'm Muslim so we do believe Jesus received revelation from God and possibly Moses/old testament foretold Jesus but that itself will not validate everything in bible speaking from a logical perspective. A book can contain something right & something wrong and something right can't make the whole book right!

What?! What I put before you is actual historical evidence that is timelined/dated of this event happening. It doesnt matter and is irrelevant that Jews believe in Jesus.

Again this is something in bible that confirms existence of a king not proof for the doctrine being true!

Again, I can't force you to open your eyes on actual history unfolding right before you. Denial? I dont know. These archaeological digs and all prove the historical accuracy of the bible and scriptures. These are physical findings that match what the bible says to the letter.

Are you rejecting actual history of things that actually happened that count towards the bible as accurate?

One example would be Mark 16:2 states that Mary was there at the tomb “very early in the morning ... when the sun had risen”. But John says it was while it was still dark
John 20:1

Oh I see. Like I told you, reading comprehension is a big problem now days. Excuse this seemingly rude statement, but you can't count your own lack of logic, common sense, and reading comprehension, as someone else being wrong.

You think these contradict?

John 20:1
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Mark 16:2
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Let me explain something to you.

Is it still dark at 4-5 in the morning?

And would the sun be "rising" when you come out so early in the morning?

Would that also be considered "VERY" early?

It seems as though you have not put two and two together on this one. No contradiction here, just misunderstandings.

 

[com7fy8]

I can't verify personal experience because people in Islam also claim miracles and revelation and I know them to be fake or liars.

God knows.

And each person is different. Ones might be fake and liars, while others are telling the truth. So, only God can make you able to tell the difference.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Its common argument that I have seen when I have asked Christians why they believe they are on right path and others are wrong. Certainly every religion claims to be truth. People try to say something like "which religion god died for your sins"? Only in Christianity so its the truth. Well that's no proof/reason to believe Christianity is truth. The doctrine itself is no proof its the truth but it must be something different. Please try not to answer similarly but provide strong argument because all scriptures have their doctrines and that itself is no proof.

Attention: this is not the apologetics forum. It is the Exploring Christianity forum.

'nuff said.

 

[food4thought]

Its common argument that I have seen when I have asked Christians why they believe they are on right path and others are wrong. Certainly every religion claims to be truth. People try to say something like "which religion god died for your sins"? Only in Christianity so its the truth. Well that's no proof/reason to believe Christianity is truth. The doctrine itself is no proof its the truth but it must be something different. Please try not to answer similarly but provide strong argument because all scriptures have their doctrines and that itself is no proof.

It boils down to fulfilled prophecy. Thanks to the dead sea scrolls, we know the book of Daniel was completed at least 100-150 years before Christ. I can therefore say with absolute confidence that the following prophecy was written before the events it predicted happened... observe:

Daniel 9:24-26 NIV (24) "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

The seventy sevens refer to a period of seventy cycles of seven years each (see Leviticus 25:8), or 490 years. You can see for yourself here the sweeping scope of what the prophecy predicts.

(25) "Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

The start date for this prophecy is from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. This decree was the decree of Artaxerxes I to Ezra in 458 BC, which allowed for and provided provision for Ezra to go back and begin rebuilding Jerusalem, starting with the temple. The first seven sevens deal with the restoration of the temple and the city, and the next sixty-two sevens deals with the interval between the completion of Jerusalem's restoration and the coming of "the Anointed One, the ruler"... which is probably better translated as "Messiah the Prince"... Jesus the Messiah/Christ (both mean "anointed"). So we see that from the decree to the promised Messiah (Christ) there would be 483 years. Going forward 483 years from 458 BC, we come to 26 AD (there is no year zero, so if one uses a calculator, you have to add one year). What happened in 26 AD? Scholars think this was the year that Jesus was baptized and began His ministry (Jesus was actually born about 4 BC).

(26) After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

So we see that Daniel not only correctly predicted the time of the coming of Jesus Christ, but he also predicted an interval between the 69th "seven" and the seventieth "seven", during which Jesus would be put to death, and that the people of the coming Antichrist (the Romans) would destroy Jerusalem and the temple.

I don't care how skeptical you are... that prophecy is astoundingly specific and accurate, and authenticates the prophecy as legitimately from God beyond doubt, and that prophecy therefore legitimates the life and death of Jesus as being predicted by God.

Hope this helps;
Michael

 

[lesliedellow]

Its common argument that I have seen when I have asked Christians why they believe they are on right path and others are wrong. Certainly every religion claims to be truth. People try to say something like "which religion god died for your sins"? Only in Christianity so its the truth. Well that's no proof/reason to believe Christianity is truth. The doctrine itself is no proof its the truth but it must be something different. Please try not to answer similarly but provide strong argument because all scriptures have their doctrines and that itself is no proof.

You wouldn’t like to turn that on your own religion, would you? - or does it somehow manage to exempt itself from your critique?

 

[Godistruth1]

Attention: this is not the apologetics forum. It is the Exploring Christianity forum.

'nuff said.

This is where non believers can ask questions about Christianity.

 

[Godistruth1]

You wouldn’t like to turn that on your own religion, would you? - or does it somehow manage to exempt itself from your critique?

I just want to know why Christians believe their belief to be true. That's it

 

[W2L]

Christianity makes the most sense to me. Grace, love, eternal life. I search for these things and find them in Christ.

 

[com7fy8]

I search for these things and find them in Christ.

God is personal with each of us who are His children. This is what I appreciate about God . . . how He is personal and loving and intimate with each child of His.

And God does not have some second-best person of blessing for us. But our Heavenly Father sent His own Son Jesus, and we have His own Holy Spirit of His very own love

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, we don't believe because of apologetics and explanations, but because God has proven Himself to us, in us. And, like I offer, this is deeper than words. Our Apostle Paul says we need "faith working through love", in Galatians 4:19. Love is deeper than words and believing words and ideas.

So, yes we offer what we have to say about things about God, but He in His love is deeper

And I think you have meant to ask, how do I know it is really God? I know the One invisible and spiritual is almighty to get rid of any of my deep problems, and He is kind and personal and intimate and personally guides me in His peace > Colossians 3:15 < because He is actually doing this. And He is obviously superior, then, to how Satan has people nasty and arguing and fearing and unforgiving, while Jesus has us loving any and all people and having hope for any and all people. And this matches with how the Bible says our Heavenly Father does things in and with His children.

Now can I prove this to you? God can ! ! !

 

[Albion]

Its common argument that I have seen when I have asked Christians why they believe they are on right path and others are wrong. Certainly every religion claims to be truth. People try to say something like "which religion god died for your sins"? Only in Christianity so its the truth. Well that's no proof/reason to believe Christianity is truth. The doctrine itself is no proof its the truth but it must be something different. Please try not to answer similarly but provide strong argument because all scriptures have their doctrines and that itself is no proof.

When people say that, they are inherently saying it because they first have been persuaded that the Bible is true in its information. Logically enough, they believe that following its contents puts them on the right path.

That is no more controversial than when someone defends some legislative action in the belief that it is Constitutional or advocates something because it has been accepted by science.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This is where non believers can ask questions about Christianity.

Asking questions is one thing. Asking for others to offer up "their strongest arguments" in defense of that, is another thing. Merely asking questions and discussing the answers in a general way is exploration, but asking others to defend their positions is an apologetics activity.

 

[Barney2.0]

Well that’s a one legged chair argument since Islam also is known to claim the same its the truth from its scripture, so it can go both ways. Anyhow we know a message and a messenger by his fruits we can tell the truth from a lie, a false message by a real one. Before considering Christianity I thought, does its message contradict previous prophets, that was a no, does it make sense, that was a yes, does it regard previous scripture as corrupted, that’s was a no, does it have historic proof for its claims, that was a yes, was its founder or central figure a just man, wise, and have power from God, yes. These questions are what you should ask yourself before finding the truth and if you really search with open heart you will always led back into the arms of Jesus Christ.

 

[Godistruth1]

Before considering Christianity I thought, does its message contradict previous prophets, that was a no, does it make sense, that was a yes, does it regard previous scripture as corrupted, that’s was a no, does it have historic proof for its claims, that was a yes, was its founder or central figure a just man, wise, and have power from God, yes. These questions are what you should ask yourself before finding the truth and if you really search with open heart you will always led back into the arms of Jesus Christ

God was One, you made it 3. OT says no one dies for other mans sins but you believe in original sin. Jesus says his father is greater than him and all and calls the father his God but you worship Jesus instead of one he worshipped.

 

[Barney2.0]

God was One, you made it 3. OT says no one dies for other mans sins but you believe in original sin. Jesus says his father is greater than him and all and calls the father his God but you worship Jesus instead of one he worshipped.

Define three, the Trinity doesn’t say three gods, actually the Old Testament says no one is punished for his father’s sins, this in no way contradicts the doctrine of original or ancestral sin since we believe the consequences of sin is passed, but we’re not punished for Adams sin. Jesus saying the Father is greater then I, means he’s subservient to the Father it doesn’t remove his claim to divinity. Jesus also says I and my father are one and was capable of sending the Holy Spirit, this does heavily imply a triune doctrine. When I worship Jesus I also worship the Father, but who do you worship, who is your god, noe there’s the real question? Also I remember not so long ago you were criticizing the Old Testament and demeaning it, I thought Islam was against hypocrisy?

 

[Godistruth1]

Define three, the Trinity doesn’t say three gods, actually the Old Testament says no one is punished for his father’s sins, this in no way contradicts the doctrine of original or ancestral sin since we believe the consequences of sin is passed, but we’re not punished for Adams sin. Jesus saying the Father is greater then I, means he’s subservient to the Father it doesn’t remove his claim to divinity. Jesus also says I and my father are one and was capable of sending the Holy Spirit, this does heavily imply a triune doctrine. When I worship Jesus I also worship the Father, but who do you worship, who is your god, noe there’s the real question? Also I remember not so long ago you were criticizing the Old Testament and demeaning it, I thought Islam was against hypocrisy?

My God is God of Jesus, Abraham, Noah, Adam, Moses and all that exists.
I am using your scripture against you which contradicts itself