• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

I am on truth because my scripture says so?

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by Godistruth1, May 3, 2018.

  1. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    Its common argument that I have seen when I have asked Christians why they believe they are on right path and others are wrong. Certainly every religion claims to be truth. People try to say something like "which religion god died for your sins"? Only in Christianity so its the truth. Well that's no proof/reason to believe Christianity is truth. The doctrine itself is no proof its the truth but it must be something different. Please try not to answer similarly but provide strong argument because all scriptures have their doctrines and that itself is no proof.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

    +592
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Examples of proof:

    1. Old testament books/scriptures have tons upon tons of verses that foretell future events to happen. In the new testament, they are fulfilled.

    2. Each time a new discovery is made archaeological etc has thus far proven scriptures correct.

    3. The bible does not contradict itself out of the millennia's of time that has passed and about 40 men who wrote in it.
     
  3. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

    +592
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Muslim cannot claim the same and I will give a brief sample of why.

    When Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, it was about 55 AD. In 1 Corinthians 13

    "8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

    10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

    That which is perfect is the bible aka the gospel. That scripture also says that miraculous gifts will cease. Remember 55 AD.

    Colossians 1:23, wrote about 60 AD., Paul states that,

    "23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

    The gospel was completely proclaimed to all the world.

    The book of Revelation is the last book written in 95-96 AD.

    That which is perfect, was completed with the book of Revelation.

    Muhammad was not born till 570 AD. His proclamation that he had visions or prophecy etc, is false because scripture previously mentioned refutes his claim to such things.
     
  4. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

    +930
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    I believe many non Christian belief systems encourage virtues and do not concern myself much else. I should always be concerned about the Gospel which basically says to trust the Lord as our savior and strive to live by His commands to love God & neighbor.

    If a non Christian does not believe the Gospel then I should discern what still may be in accordance with the Beatitudes in their values ( Matthew 5:1-12 ). Whatever is good etc. ( Philippians 4:8 ), test all things etc. ( 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 ). Some of these will fall into what St. Paul speaks of in Romans 2. Then I should just take stock of my own shortcomings ( Matthew 7:1-12 ) & just pray ( 1 Timothy 2:1 ).

    I know I will still collide with the world since many “innovators” within Christianity believe Christians need to “get with it” and join the world. I still believe what St. Paul calls sin in Romans 1 is truth and only believe virtues exist where sin is not embraced (this is a delicate matter in the day to day of course & often things can get blurred).
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  5. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus Supporter

    +772
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    The evidence is that the Bible matches perfectly with science, archeology, and history. Also, the many prophecies which were fulfilled in detail.
     
  6. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    Can you tell something that we can verify now?
    Can you elaborate
    There is difference of opinion on this as there are too many contradictions claimed on bible and Christians deny them somehow
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  7. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    This is no proof and I do not see how its relevant to the topic
     
  8. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    So you believe because the scripture says?
     
  9. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    There are claims on scientific errors in bible in beginning itself which can only be rejected through faith like in genesis like sun created on 4th day, earth the third day etc. Can you elaborate what Archeological evidence you are speaking about!, there is denial of lot of history in Christianity by historians so I will not consider that !
     
  10. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

    +592
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Well, Jesus for one. It was predicted by the prophets in the OT centuries upon centuries before the Christ actually came.

    Example- Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23

    Isaiah was written about 700-681 BC and Matthew was written about 60-65ish AD telling events that happened decades earlier.

    Isaiah is proved by the dead sea scrolls in which the oldest one found is estimated to be about 408-318 BC, which is still hundreds of years before Christ's birth.

    As far as Christ's existence, I could use secular writers such a Josephus [Antiquities of the Jews] that mentions Christ. Also the scholar studying Josephus, Louise Feldman.

    Another secular person I could use is also Tacitus, a Roman historian and politician [the Annals] also confirms a man names Jesus the Christ.

    These are just a few examples of facts.

    I hope I don't need to put the whole list of fulfillment's here because there is a lot. You should study the rest and compare on your own. I could site a few more if you wish, but I wont jot them all because the point is made.

    Find from era of King David may confirm Old Testament text -- if politics don't interfere

    King David's city discovered? Ancient site linked to biblical kingdom, archaeologists say

    Just some examples you wished to see.

    Only to those who cant understand context/ reading comprehension. Also bias out there too. Even hand fulls of Christians themselves are blind to see blatant scripture such as the necessity for baptism. It's actually quite sad since the bible is written at a 7-12 grade reading level pending on which version you get.

    Can you give me an example of what you think is a contradiction?

    [edited to place more supporting evidence I forgot to mention]
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  11. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

    +592
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    retracting post comment.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  12. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,479
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Hi, God is truth :) God bless you :) I am Bill, pleased to meet you :)

    More and more, I experience God doing in me all which the Bible says He does in His children. This is so better than I have thought of trying to do with myself. Because God is so better and superior to all of us.

    So, I offer > the Bible is not only for being proven, but it is what we can read, then see how God does with us all He means by His word.

    I think Muslims consider Isaiah to be a prophet. Isaiah 55:11 says,

    "'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
    . It shall not return to Me void,
    . But it shall accomplish what I please,
    . And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

    So, I'm not trying to prove anything, but I pray and trust God to do all He means by His word, with me and anyone else. And I keep finding that God is proving Himself to me, better than my knowledge and effort can prove Him.
     
  13. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    Jews deny the prophesies in old testament are not referring to Jesus. Although I'm Muslim so we do believe Jesus received revelation from God and possibly Moses/old testament foretold Jesus but that itself will not validate everything in bible speaking from a logical perspective. A book can contain something right & something wrong and something right can't make the whole book right!
    Again this is something in bible that confirms existence of a king not proof for the doctrine being true!

    One example would be Mark 16:2 states that Mary was there at the tomb “very early in the morning ... when the sun had risen”. But John says it was while it was still dark
    John 20:1
     
  14. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    Hi Bill :) nice to meet you too :)
    Muslims differ with Christians regarding authenticity of bible(not saying because of this argument it becomes so). But I was looking something unique or new undeniable proof !!
     
  15. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,479
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Nothing is proof unless God considers it to be proof.

    I suspect there are people who are claiming to give proof of God, but what they are giving is not really proof. But, even so, God is God. False proof does not mean there is not the real thing.

    There is counterfeit money, but this does not mean there is no real money :)

    And what you are looking for might not be what would really prove what is good.

    And what you want can be faked by people you should not be trusting. Satan knows what you are looking for, and he can give you an imitation.

    Have you read what happened because the Jewish leaders did not make sure with God? Joshua 9:1-14

    They were even God's approved leaders, but they fooled themselves into judging by how things were made to look.

    So, it is wise to make sure with God, Himself, and trust Him to prove Himself the way He wants. Jesus is His proof, better than all which a lot of humans are dictating that we have to have for proof. If God considers Jesus to be His proof, this is better than humans might be looking for. How much can we humans help God?
     
  16. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    T
    How do you know God considers Jesus to be proof and not Islam ? What you have said is because you believe your religion to be true !
     
  17. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +7,627
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    An excellent place in which to start our investigation.

    For we would hate to let it pass us by and not end up in a beautiful heaven.

    I also believe in the hot place.
    Details will not be provided
    at this time.

    M-Bob
     
  18. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,479
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    On my own, I have no way of knowing. And I am not so great that I can prove that God's word is true. But God knows, and He is able to communicate.

    How do I know that God communicates with me? I pray for how He wants me to answer this. He is better than all which I have seen in various sorts of Christian and other religion. And this is through His Son Jesus.

    I have seen how Muslims do not all have the same way of Islam. So, I would say what you consider to be Islam might not be the same as that of other Muslims.

    It is a gift of God, if we really are with Him and He is communicating with us and we are getting it right. So, in case I am right, the thanks is only to God. He is my Judge, He knows.

    I find He communicates with me personally, in His love, better than what I can or other people can give me. He in His love is gentle and humble and nicely quiet and pleasantly patient and beautifully wonderful in caring and kind affection very pure and sensitive. And Jesus His Son gives us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) in this love, which makes us more and more truly all-loving and unconditional in how we keep sharing in this love with others who are in God's family of His way of relating in love >

    "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

    God has created this world better than how any of us humans have made anything, and this love is so much better than any and all sorts of love which I have discovered humans to have. So, this is part of how I know God is sharing with us through Jesus and the Bible says things which match with how God's love is in us >

    "Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

    So, I am not perfect enough to be able to know perfectly who God is and how. But this is what I have experienced.
     
  19. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

    +930
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Yes, from what I understand in relation to the scriptures I linked is that I should recognize where God’s moral law is lived by outside my faith. Since I still have sin, as we all do, I should have hope for myself and anyone for salvation. I do not embrace non Christian beliefs but God has left something in all of us to be accountable ( Acts of the Apostles 10:34-36 ). I believe the Gospel should be preached and I cannot say that everything thing is ok if you live a moral life. I believe as a Christian I must live by faith ( Philippians 2:12 ) but also realize God will save those He knows who did what was right ( John 5:22-30).

    C.S. Lewis wrote an amazing short book on natural law called: The Abolition of Man which centers on a universal natural law in all of us that at least kept us from total self destruction. In his time, he feared the common sense of right & wrong was unraveling. For my limited ability, this book was a little hard to understand but once I got it, has deeply enriched my faith perspective. If interested see: The Abolition of Man - Wikipedia
     
  20. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

    +1,803
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    I believe that human nature is such that if God himself were to walk among us doing nothing but good and speaking nothing but truth and performing nothing but miracles and telling us our nature was flawed and needed to be healed, the outcome would be inevitable. Feeling threatened, we would kill Him. Who among us likes to be confronted with our sins and our own nature? Do we not deny it. Who among us is capable of repentance? Do we not flee from it? Who among us steps into the Light?

    John 3:19-21

    19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.


    The story and everything it says about human nature is true. He was crucified 2000 years ago, he would be crucified today if he appeared and spoke Truth and did not defend himself. What he said about human nature was 100% correct.

    And if you you are given faith to believe in the Resurrection, then what He said about his own nature was 100% correct.

    Something happened 2000 years ago and it changed the course of history. I have seen it in my own life and the people that I met. I am an alcoholic. I sought out the rooms of AA. They told me to seek God. So I did. They have a funny little saying there, "Everything happens for a reason"

    I got sober because there was a miracle already in place for me when I looked for it. AA is a huge organization, started by a couple of drunks that believed they had an encounter with God. Eventually I started looking for the reason that AA began, because drunks don't do this sort of thing, they don't found organizations like this. Mostly, they just drink themselves to death. These guys didn't though.

    What I found was that they originally interacted with the Oxford Group. So the reason for AA was originally Christians. It was about 3 years before I went to a church again. I stood in the church and said 'this is here for a reason'. What reasons? I started following the reasons back. Eventually, I followed them all the way back 2000 years to the Cross where a man was crucified.

    Why was he crucified? Something in human nature needed to change. And I also realized that something in my own nature needed to change, I had known that for a long time.

    So to answer your question, for me the doctrine itself is no proof. I often question the Bible and scriptures. However, the proof of Christ's words and Christ's story is human nature, and my own nature and what was personally carried forward 2000 years to me.
     
Loading...