I am Curious

[Dave RP]

If you are still "not rejecting" to listen to Christianity, then you are not totally leaving God. Then you may have chance to become a faithful Christian again. There are atheists who do not have interest in talking or listening to Christian. They left God and go their own ways. They are not bothered to listen to anything about Christianity.

Christian Forum is like a festival. Christians are in there to talk and to learn. You call yourself not a Christian, but you come to the festival to see things. That means you are still interested. In Christian's term, you are still "searching". People who are not interested in this festival do not come and seeing around.

Hope you can find God in the Forums.

Thanks very much for the response. I think I'm very interested in searching for the truth of how the universe and life and intelligence etc. all came about, but I will never put it down to god, because I then get stuck in the age old question of where did god come from?

I suppose all atheists are also in some way agnostic, I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if there was a force of nature so far beyond our comprehension that we labelled it "god" but it will not, for me be the god of the bible.

 

[juvenissun]

Thanks very much for the response. I think I'm very interested in searching for the truth of how the universe and life and intelligence etc. all came about, but I will never put it down to god, because I then get stuck in the age old question of where did god come from?

I suppose all atheists are also in some way agnostic, I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if there was a force of nature so far beyond our comprehension that we labelled it "god" but it will not, for me be the god of the bible.

Very good. Keep searching.

If you like to talk about issues, we may also do that. Although it tends to go off topic in this thread. But, hey, why not? Issues are important.

An origin problem MUST have a starting point. It makes no sense to question the existence of the starting point. Otherwise, the word origin becomes meaningless. May be you are thinking about a cyclic process which has no beginning and no end. But, what about the very first cycle? Does it have a beginning point? Or, was the whole first cycle just popped up instantly?

 

[Goonie]

Yes, it's called "agnostic atheism".

I'm unaware of any "gnostic atheists" anywhere

Yes a gnostic atheist is a bit of contradiction in terms reminds me of the joke about Northern Ireland "are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes a gnostic atheist is a bit of contradiction in terms

No, it's not.
The first part is about knowledge and the second part is about belief, the actual position.

Agnostic atheist: I don't believe gods exist.
Gnostic atheist: I know no gods exist
Agnostic theist: I believe god exists
Gnostic theist: I know god exists.

reminds me of the joke about Northern Ireland "are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

That's an actual contradiction in terms because it translates into "theistic atheist".

 

[Oafman]

That's an actual contradiction in terms because it translates into "theistic atheist".

The joke is the contradiction, and the idea that everyone in Northern Ireland had to choose a side.

 

[com7fy8]

the idea that everyone in Northern Ireland had to choose a side.

I don't know much about what the "sides" might have been in Northern Ireland, but I think I have seen how people who are arguing and even fighting against each other can both be wrong or each side might have part of what is right but they are arguing their right information against the other's right information, instead of piecing what they have together.

There are people who can be like two snapping turtles fighting over some territory in their mud puddle where no one else wants to go. But the fight can get a lot of attention, while others are staying clear and living and loving quietly.

I think there have been religious groups against each other, and both groups have been wrong.

So, it is possible that someone has become an atheist or agnostic while exposed to a wrong representation of Christianity. Possibly the person has been told the wrong explanations, wrong emphasis of attention, shown the wrong attitudes, or the ideas were correct but the example of the people was bad > I myself, might be Bible smart but love stupid, a bad example for myself. But I now have, I would say, some real example people to help me.

So, I see an atheist might come here in order to "rescue" all the misled Christians. Or, one resents how one has had bad examples and wants revenge, by putting down anyone who claims to be a Christian. Or, one wants to make sure about if he or she is rejecting what was wrong Christianity in one's own upbringing or exposure, or if he or she is rejecting what really is Christianity. Plus, wrong representatives can make a few people look like "all" Christians . . . because of their in-your-face and noisy ways and media attention . . . while Jesus has people gentle and quiet and humble living and loving in real life.

And there can be other reasons, since . . . in my opinion . . . all "atheists" are not alike. Each person is unique; so, in a way, you can't put them all in one category . . . or, actually, in categories of reasons

 

[Goonie]

No, it's not.
The first part is about knowledge and the second part is about belief, the actual position.

Agnostic atheist: I don't believe gods exist.
Gnostic atheist: I know no gods exist
Agnostic theist: I believe god exists
Gnostic theist: I know god exists.



That's an actual contradiction in terms because it translates into "theistic atheist".

Ah, got it. When I think about gnosticism, it's christian history springs to mind, but yes gnostic, as in knowing, could be used to describe a gnostic atheist who knows there is no god.

The full joke as told by Richard Dawkins, in the God Delision, is

“”A journalist, researching for an article on the complex political situation in Northern Ireland, was in a pub in a war-torn area of Belfast. One of his potential informants leaned over his pint of Guinness and suspiciously cross-examined the journalist: "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?" the Irishman asked.
"Neither," replied the journalist; "I'm an atheist."

The Irishman, not content with this answer, put a further question: "Ah, but are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"[2

 

[Oafman]

So, it is possible that someone has become an atheist or agnostic while exposed to a wrong representation of Christianity. Possibly the person has been told the wrong explanations, wrong emphasis of attention, shown the wrong attitudes, or the ideas were correct but the example of the people was bad

It's possible in some cases, but I'm sure it's not the case with the majority of atheists. Most of us were exposed to a pretty typical representation of Christianity. The reason why most of us are atheists is simply that we have been presented with a series of extraordinary claims which are not supported by any convincing evidence, and so we do not believe them.

So, I see an atheist might come here in order to "rescue" all the misled Christians.

I don't think this is the case with most atheists on CF. Most of us do not object to others holding religious beliefs, and only kick up a fuss when those views are forced upon wider society in some way (eg teaching nonsense in science class, or legislating against people based on their sexuality etc). There are certainly atheists on CF who believe the world would be better off without religions, but that is a slightly different thing from having a problem with individuals holding religious beliefs, and from attempting to convince people to change those beliefs.

Or, one resents how one has had bad examples and wants revenge, by putting down anyone who claims to be a Christian. Or, one wants to make sure about if he or she is rejecting what was wrong Christianity in one's own upbringing or exposure, or if he or she is rejecting what really is Christianity. Plus, wrong representatives can make a few people look like "all" Christians . . . because of their in-your-face and noisy ways and media attention . . . while Jesus has people gentle and quiet and humble living and loving in real life.

For most of us, we reject the claims of religion simply because we are unconvinced by them. You can look for reasons for this rejection, and in a minority of examples I'm sure they are there (the Phelps kid who became an atheist springs to mind!). But in most cases, we're not bitter about our upbringing, and we weren't badly introduced to religion. We just don't find the claims believable. That's honestly all there is to it.

And I would also point out that I don't think people need reasons to not believe in things. Not believing in things is my default position. Until I hear a convincing reason to believe in something, I don't believe in it. There doesn't need to be a particular explanation for this approach in the case of religion, because I apply the same line of thinking to absolutely everything else.

And there can be other reasons, since . . . in my opinion . . . all "atheists" are not alike. Each person is unique; so, in a way, you can't put them all in one category . . . or, actually, in categories of reasons

Thank you, that is rarely acknowledged. Atheists have almost nothing in common with each other, just the fact that they don't believe in God. Which is a familiar position for everyone, seeing as nobody believes in every God from every religion. Most people reject all of these Gods except for one, atheists reject all of them with no exceptions.

 

[Nithavela]

There are how many atheists on here, that post regularily? 2-3 dozen? No more than 50, would be my guess.

Compared to the number of atheists in the world, it could be said with great accuracy that next to no atheist actually goes to seek out christian forums.

Personally, I got here because of debating evolution/creationism, and sort of branched out into the other debate forums. It's a hobby, nothing more, nothing less. I'm not hear to learn, although I'm open to learning new things if the opportunity presents itself. And I'm not here to turn anyone away from religion.

 

[Cearbhall]

I am not trying to start an argument.

But I notice there are a lot of atheist and agnostics here. I am just surprise. I can't imagine going on Islamic Forum.

That's interesting. I can imagine doing that. I haven't done it as of yet, because I'm much more familiar with Christianity, but I don't see a boundary there.

 

[frdpwr427]

I am not trying to start an argument.

But I notice there are a lot of atheist and agnostics here. I am just surprise. I can't imagine going on Islamic Forum. So why are there a lot of atheists and agnostics on a Christian Forum?

IM not sure about joining an Islamic forum but i wouldn't count it out. The Islamic religion is very close to ours and the ones i have talked to understand our religion better then most of the Christians i have met. talking to them can be changling but it can also be quit rewarding. If you have a chance I would suggest talking with one or more of them and find out for yourself.