I am an agnostic atheist!!

I am sorry, I know it said this was a Christian only area but it was the closest area I found to do with my questions. (Mods, please move this if necessary)



I do not believe in God simply because there is no proof of God. If there was evidence that a deity existed I would welcome that evidence and therefore believe in that God and have a faith.

Due to the severe lack of evidence for any God whatsoever, why did you choose to believe the christian God and not others such as the Egyptian gods or Buddha?

I ask this as I am trying to expand my knowledge on why Christians are Christians. The most common reason so far is because they were born into a christian family and have therefore been brought up a christian with no choice in the matter.

Please respond, I am looking for a serious intellectual discussion about religion, I am not trying to force you out of Christianity I am just trying to understand your thought processes.

Verily thou art a God that hides thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour. <-----> Isaiah 45:15

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. <-----> Jeremiah 29:13

At this time evidence for God is reserved for those who really search for it.

Waiting for God to come to us, in order to believe, has the distinct disadvantage of being found by Him, in our unbelieving state.

Having looked in many places, it was Scripture, specifically The New Testament that led to seeking, asking, finding and receiving, assurance of Christ as The Son of God, and God as The Father of Christ.

But this seeking was not an intellectual quest, it was a desperate hunt for answers which no one seemed to have.

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

Dear Jordan,

While you dwell on the non-existent of God, do you not know that your very desire to come here and know about the one true God is already proof that God is drawing you to Him and putting this desire in you to come here and ask us about why we believe so fervently in God? This very desire you have to know God is the evidence that God exists.

Those who love the truth and seek it will find it, so I urge you to truly have such a desire to pursue the truth and know it, just like we Christians have and found it in Jesus Christ, who IS the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6). Love and desire to know the truth with a sincere heart is actually the very criteria you need to really have a chance of finding it.

Let's hear what the Bible says about creation and how God brought about mankind:

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Click to expand...

(Genesis 1)

The very fact that mankind has free will and dominion over the earth today is not a mere miracle or some process of evolution, but God ordained it right from the beginning. Also, neither are the sun and moon some process of huge explosion, but God created them and ordained them to give light to the earth. Do you not think that the very fact that only the Earth has such diversity of life forms and that the entire solar system seems to be carefully running in a way to support life on Earth is evidence of Divine creation and administration?

Even science proposes a cause for everything that happens. The many things in nature that even hardcore scientists cannot understand is nevertheless traceable to a source and a cause. Genesis 1 explained the origins of many things that scientists cannot explain and prove, and there is a very huge amount of evidence to support the Bible as historically accurate and divinely inspired.

Firstly, the Bible gives a very accurate history of the advent of all life forms, including mankind, who is created in the very image and likeness of God Himself. Let me give you an example, which is in Genesis mentioning the Flood and Noah's Ark. Here is the Bible verses that talked about the flood:

5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18But with thee will I establish My covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them. 22Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before Me in this generation.
2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
5And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
6And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

1And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;

2The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
3And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. 4And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Click to expand...

(Genesis 6, 7 and 8)

There has been archaeological evidences that Noah's Ark is now lying in the mountains of Ararat in Turkey, just like it was mentioned in the record of Genesis above:

Noah's Ark Overview

(continued)

wayfaring man said:

Verily thou art a God that hides thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour. <-----> Isaiah 45:15

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. <-----> Jeremiah 29:13

At this time evidence for God is reserved for those who really search for it.

Waiting for God to come to us, in order to believe, has the distinct disadvantage of being found by Him, in our unbelieving state.

Having looked in many places, it was Scripture, specifically The New Testament that led to seeking, asking, finding and receiving, assurance of Christ as The Son of God, and God as The Father of Christ.

But this seeking was not an intellectual quest, it was a desperate hunt for answers which no one seemed to have.

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

Click to expand...

How do you know you can take the scriptures at their word? You do realise that scriptures and passages have been taken out of the Bible, some where never in it. Why is this? There are literally thousands and thousands of documents from that era.
One theory is that, due to the numerous documents and passages, there was of course going to be a way to link a few together. Doing this they created the Bible as we know it.

Really, my question is: How do you know you can trust the Bible as things have been removed and the fact that there was so much documentation to choose from they simply found a few that linked together and put them in a book? (and of course adapted them to link further)

Terene said:

Dear Jordan,

While you dwell on the non-existent of God, do you not know that your very desire to come here and know about the one true God is already proof that God is drawing you to Him and putting this desire in you to come here and ask us about why we believe so fervently in God? This very desire you have to know God is the evidence that God exists.

Click to expand...

I am here to gain knowledge on why you, and others believe in God when there is no proof of his existence. I do not believe God has a "pull" on me.

Terene said:

The very fact that mankind has free will and dominion over the earth today is not a mere miracle or some process of evolution, but God ordained it right from the beginning. Also, neither are the sun and moon some process of huge explosion, but God created them and ordained them to give light to the earth. Do you not think that the very fact that only the Earth has such diversity of life forms and that the entire solar system seems to be carefully running in a way to support life on Earth is evidence of Divine creation and administration?

Click to expand...

No, I do believe in the big bang as there is scientific evidence pointing towards it. Granted it is not certain that the universe was created through the big bang, but I believe it is more plausible than a God.
Also, do you not feel the suggestion that God created the whole universe simply to support one planet orbiting around an ordinary star is a bit ignorant? Why would he, if he does exist, form countless numbers of galaxies containing vast numbers of stars and planets, just to create life on one unspectacular planet in the Milky Way?

Terene said:

Even science proposes a cause for everything that happens. The many things in nature that even hardcore scientists cannot understand is nevertheless traceable to a source and a cause. Genesis 1 explained the origins of many things that scientists cannot explain and prove, and there is a very huge amount of evidence to support the Bible as historically accurate and divinely inspired.

Firstly, the Bible gives a very accurate history of the advent of all life forms, including mankind, who is created in the very image and likeness of God Himself. Let me give you an example, which is in Genesis mentioning the Flood and Noah's Ark. Here is the Bible verses that talked about the flood:



(Genesis 6, 7 and 8)

There has been archaeological evidences that Noah's Ark is now lying in the mountains of Ararat in Turkey, just like it was mentioned in the record of Genesis above:

(had to remove the link as I was under the required post count)

(continued)

Click to expand...

I believe Christians or other religions are basing there stories around a fact. There were many boats and "arks", it could simply be a coincidence that a large boat was found were it was (mountains of Turkey). Is there any evidence that numerous life forms were held on the boat for a sustained period of time (how long were they in the ark?)

Another example I would like to give is that of God's punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Word of God writes:

http://bible.cc/genesis/19-24.htm

24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; 25http://bible.cc/genesis/19-24.htmAnd He overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
[/QUOTE]

Click to expand...

http://bible.cc/genesis/19-24.htm (Genesis 19)

God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for sins of sodomy (common day termed homosexuality) and other sins as well, and these two cities were COMPLETELY wiped out by the fire and brimstone from heaven. This also, have been proven as TRUE record by archaelogists:

Sodom & Gomorrah

While the Bible has been proven again and again by real evidences that its accounts are entirely true, there has also been evidences that people like Darwin who brought the idea of evolution and other scientists that raise ridiculous theories like the earth has existed for billions of years have ALL been proven wrong and even DANGEROUS!

YouTube - &#x202a;Scientific Proof of God Documentary (Full Length)&#x202c;&rlm; - Scientific proof of God
How evolution creates tyrants - Darwin's evolution theory breeds murderers!
Proof that Evolution is a Hoax - Evolution theory a hoax!
Chapter 11: Where Did the Idea of “Millions of Years” Come From? - Answers in Genesis - How did the idea that the earth is million/billion years old come about?
Young Age for the Moon and Earth - Young age for moon and earth debunks the false theory of evolution

Click to expand...

Terene said:

Another example I would like to give is that of God's punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Word of God writes:


God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for sins of sodomy (common day termed homosexuality) and other sins as well, and these two cities were COMPLETELY wiped out by the fire and brimstone from heaven. This also, have been proven as TRUE record by archaelogists:


(Had to remove the link as I am under the required post count)

Click to expand...

Once again I believe you are basing your story around a fact. I have never heard of the cities before, but I'm sure at one stage they were over fault lines, could there not have been a volcano that wiped the cities out? There is no need for divine intervention in this case.

Terene said:

While the Bible has been proven again and again by real evidences that its accounts are entirely true, there has also been evidences that people like Darwin who brought the idea of evolution and other scientists that raise ridiculous theories like the earth has existed for billions of years have ALL been proven wrong and even DANGEROUS!

(one again had to remove the links)

Click to expand...

In this case you are completely wrong, the earth is around 4.5 billion years old. It has been scientifically proven that this is correct.

Please explain how the Bible has been proven correct? (Please note, I have not yet watched/read the links provided. Although I'm sure none of them have evidence that proves science wrong)

Evolution has been proven correct. Most non-biased people believe in evolution as it makes sense. There is no possible way that we could all have descended for Adam and Eve (are we all incest-born children?)

But this is nothing compared to the real existence of Jesus Christ, the Savior of mankind, the Son of God, who was crucified to death on the Cross and later resurrected to life. If you read the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, all of them testified the same thing: That God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the world so that those who believe in Him will not perish in sin but have everlasting life. (Gospel of John)

Refuting the Jesus Myth - Proof that Jesus exists
Did Jesus rise from the dead? - Page 5 - Proof that Jesus died and resurrected
Did Jesus rise from the dead? - Page 6 - Proof that Jesus died and resurrected
Did Jesus rise from the dead? - Page 7 - Proof that Jesus died and resurrected
Did Jesus rise from the dead? - Page 8- Proof that Jesus died and resurrected
Did Jesus rise from the dead? - Page 9 - Proof that Jesus died and resurrected
Did Jesus rise from the dead? - Page 10 - Proof that Jesus died and resurrected

Terene said:

But this is nothing compared to the real existence of Jesus Christ, the Savior of mankind, the Son of God, who was crucified to death on the Cross and later resurrected to life. If you read the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, all of them testified the same thing: That God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the world so that those who believe in Him will not perish in sin but have everlasting life. (Gospel of John)

Click to expand...

If you decided to read my arguments and not just blindly post, you would have recognised by now that I don't feel the Bible is a great source of information as it has been edited and adapted many times.

Also, this is not really the discussion I was looking for. It's more of, Christians post what they believe is evidence, I reply with why I believe it's not evidence, Christians post something completely off topic, I reply why that isn't evidence either... Repeat.

Jordan Wright said:

If you decided to read my arguments and not just blindly post, you would have recognised by now that I don't feel the Bible is a great source of information as it has been edited and adapted many times.

Also, this is not really the discussion I was looking for. It's more of, Christians post what they believe is evidence, I reply with why I believe it's not evidence, Christians post something completely off topic, I reply why that isn't evidence either... Repeat.

Click to expand...

I was actually still posting while you already replied to my first posts, so please forgive me for not seeing them on time to stop my posts. But nevertheless, I do hope you can take a good look at the videos/articles I linked on here and decide for yourself what is true and right.

We are all humans, and are prone to error and wrong. It is often by experience that we prove something as true and good, and Christianity offers that to all believers. Jesus Christ and His disciples have taught that we ought to be doers of the Word, not hearers only. It is by experience that we know the truthfulness of the Lord's teachings, and that truly there is a God who loves and cares for a sin-warped and depraved world.

I would love to share my experiences with you as well, because I was previously a non-believer, an atheist born in an atheist family, but I saw the power and miracle of God in my life manifesting in real changes that are visible, not just invisible. Many hardcore atheists have similar experiences that lead to transforming changes in their previous thinking and ultimately they found the existence of God to be true and astounding. Meanwhile, I hope you will look at what I have shown you and truly receive it with a humble and willing heart, because a stubborn and obstinate heart only hinders one from finding out the truth.

May our God bless you and open your eyes to behold His wondrous works.

PS. Now if you may, let me reply to your replies to my posts.

Jordan Wright said:

I am here to gain knowledge on why you, and others believe in God when there is no proof of his existence. I do not believe God has a "pull" on me.

Click to expand...

God works with non-believers like you as well, because it is His will for everyone to know Him and come to His salvation through Jesus Christ. You may not understand it, but it is true. My experiences, along with experiences of multitudes of atheists who came to God are the proof of His existence, because experiences are just as real and factual as scientific evidences.

Jordan Wright said:

No, I do believe in the big bang as there is scientific evidence pointing towards it. Granted it is not certain that the universe was created through the big bang, but I believe it is more plausible than a God. Also, do you not feel the suggestion that God created the whole universe simply to support one planet orbiting around an ordinary star is a bit ignorant? Why would he, if he does exist, form countless numbers of galaxies containing vast numbers of stars and planets, just to create life on one unspectacular planet in the Milky Way?

Click to expand...

Then you may be astounded that there are also lots of evidences that prove that the Big Bang theory is but a false theory that lacks evidences (just some refutes listed below):

Big Bang? Hah!
Defender's Guide to Science and Creationism
YouTube - &#x202a;What's Wrong with the Big Bang Theory?&#x202c;&rlm;

The Big Bang theory goes against the nature of this universe by saying that a universe so big can come out of something of zero volume, because it is not possible that something can come out of nothing! This so called aspect of Big Bang Theory has never even been observed by anyone who lived to date, so how can there be proof that the universe came by a Big Bang? Who in this entire human civilisation has observed at least one element of the universe coming out of something that is of zero volume? None!

Now let me give you what the Scripture says about people who give such ridiculous and senseless theories, as well as all who do not love the truth that God has given us and resort to worshipping idols:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Click to expand...

(Romans 1)

Mankind was created with a sound and clear mind, knowing right from wrong, truth from false. But when these people start denying God and His existence and even resist stark evidences that point to His existence, what happened to them? They create theories that are totally irrational and illogical!

Jordan Wright said:

I believe Christians or other religions are basing there stories around a fact. There were many boats and "arks", it could simply be a coincidence that a large boat was found were it was (mountains of Turkey). Is there any evidence that numerous life forms were held on the boat for a sustained period of time (how long were they in the ark?)

Click to expand...

At least there are actual evidences for what is said in the Bible, and I do believe that that is the Noah's ark. But what about the Big Bang theory? What visible evidences are there? And what about evolution? And all those senseless theories come up by people who are deceived themselves into illogical thinking and reasoning? Do you not realise that ALL these false theories go against nature and the very laws of science?

O may God have mercy on them and free other people from their deception!

Terene said:

God works with non-believers like you as well, because it is His will for everyone to know Him and come to His salvation through Jesus Christ. You may not understand it, but it is true. My experiences, along with experiences of multitudes of atheists who came to God are the proof of His existence, because experiences are just as real and factual as scientific evidences.



Then you may be astounded that there are also lots of evidences that prove that the Big Bang theory is but a false theory that lacks evidences (just some refutes listed below):

Click to expand...

I am aware there are areas of the theory which have not been proven etc. That's why it's a theory. Scientists are constantly forming theories in order to explain things, they become laws or universal rules when they are proven to be true.

Terene said:

The Big Bang theory goes against the nature of this universe by saying that a universe so big can come out of something of zero volume, because it is not possible that something can come out of nothing! This so called aspect of Big Bang Theory has never even been observed by anyone who lived to date, so how can there be proof that the universe came by a Big Bang? Who in this entire human civilisation has observed at least one element of the universe coming out of something that is of zero volume? None!

Click to expand...

No, the theory is that the big bang was a single point, a singularity, which had infinite (un-measurable) mass. For whatever reason, that mass started to expand, which is explained by the red-shift of the planets and galaxies moving away from one another. Therefore no one is saying the universe came from nothing.

Terene said:

At least there are actual evidences for what is said in the Bible, and I do believe that that is the Noah's ark. But what about the Big Bang theory? What visible evidences are there? And what about evolution? And all those senseless theories come up by people who are deceived themselves into illogical thinking and reasoning? Do you not realise that ALL these false theories go against nature and the very laws of science?

Click to expand...

No there's not. Yes, there may be a large boat found in the mountains. But, as I asked before, was there evidence of many many animals living inside it for a long period of time? Was it stated in the Bible that the floods receded when
Noah was above the land of Turkey?

Allow me to share my conversion story before I go on to reply to your previous post:

I used to be pretty much an atheist like you are now, and my parents are also atheists. Since young, no one told me about God, there were no known Christian churches around me, and none of my relatives were Christians. So you can say I grow up in an environment that pretty much did not acknowledge the existence of God, and of course, I did not acknowledge His existence either.

But even though I did not know God, I was born a carefree girl and a happy and loving one, people liked to be with me because I was adorable and truly demonstrated love for those around me. I was also obedient as a child and had much joy. This was how I was during the first two years I was born.

But things started changing and my life as a non-Christian became a dreadful and dark one. My father is that kind of man who is oppressive, suspicious, extremistic, controlling and emotional, while my mother used to be very meek and quiet. Since young, my parents quarreled violently, with my father going out of control and frequently wanting to commit suicide with us. Even till now, I can still remember the first horrifying quarrel that left my father's head bleeding and my mother crying profusely and the house in a mess as a result of domestic violence - this happened when I was only two or three years old.

I soon migrated with my family to another country, but things only got worse. The financial pressure and the personality deficiencies in my father turned him into a even more violent man. My father is a really filial son, and would insist on giving his parents (my grandparents) money though we were in financial difficulties. This resulted in more quarrels between my parents and this often ended in much violence, despair and suicidal thoughts in my whole family. My father was almost always the one to lose his temper and start the violence. I was living totally in darkness and don't know why my family is like this. I too wanted to commit suicide many times.

My father's oppressive and suspicious nature caused great fear in me, but even more so, I started hating him due to the hurt he caused my mother and I. My father was not only oppressive and suspicious, he won't stop thinking evil about the government and even think that the whole world is against him. My mother was also greatly affected by his demonic behaviors and she started becoming bitter and wrathful. This went on for almost 10 years, and I went to the point of even cursing my father and my grandparents because they were mostly the reason why my parents quarreled. I became a person filled with hatred, bitterness, resentment and all kinds of vices and I cannot find anywhere to release my emotions. I began to have low self esteem, became suspicious like my father is, and dared not even look people straight in the eyes. I started thinking evil, even to the point to wanting to destroy the world with my own hands. People around me started to dislike me, because I indeed always have this dark face in front of people. I was never genuinely happy, and people can see that from my facial expressions. I would come to the point of biting my father like a dog when he quarreled with my mother and being malicious to anyone who I think is a threat to my family. Compare and contrast what I became with how I was like when I was born, you would see I became totally different. I was demonized (or demon possessed), just like my father and my entire family was.

This was the shocking side of my life before I came to Jesus Christ, one with no hope, no love and no peace, only violence, hatred, resentment. But even so, God was with me in this darkness. Though my heart was resentful and filled with hatred, yet I often felt this urge to do good to others, even those who mock me and despise me. While I wanted to do evil, there is this urge in me propelling me to do good and show love. There were two forces inside of me, one urging me to become hateful and do evil, the other telling me to love and do good. When I did choose to do good instead of evil, there is always this profound peace and joy in me. Of course I did not understand the conflict I had, but now I know that it was the influence of God in my life, telling me to do good and love rather than hate and do evil.

This battle with evil did not last long until I was finally brought to Jesus Christ by a fellow classmate. I had no idea it was a Christian event, and just went with my friends. But that night changed my life 360 degrees. When I heard the pastor preach Jesus and His death on the Cross, a flood of tears came out of me, and I could instantly feel that all the ingrained hatred, resentment, bitterness was gone, RIGHT WHERE I AM. I am not lying to you, the story of Jesus' death on the Cross for humanity's sins delivered me from the dark emotions I had for years! THIS IS THE POWER OF GOD! That same night I gave my life and heart to Jesus Christ and was saved by His mercy.

The fact that I am here to share my story is a testimony to you and all atheists that there is a God who is infinitely good and loving, and can deliver us from all darkness and despair. He will show you wonderful truth and the real purpose of your life on earth, as well as what it means to truly be righteous and WHAT IS REAL LOVE.

One final question (directed at anyone who reads this) I would like to ask is why you believe in your God, Christian God, and not others such as Buddha or Ancient Egyptian Gods.
To me, if you can answer this I'll be able to tell you why I do not believe in your God.

Stephen Roberts said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"

And with that, I bid you farewell.

In this case you are completely wrong, the earth is around 4.5 billion years old. It has been scientifically proven that this is correct.

Please explain how the Bible has been proven correct? (Please note, I have not yet watched/read the links provided. Although I'm sure none of them have evidence that proves science wrong)

Evolution has been proven correct. Most non-biased people believe in evolution as it makes sense. There is no possible way that we could all have descended for Adam and Eve (are we all incest-born children?)

Click to expand...

I have seen no unbiased evidence of evolution or that the world is billions of years old. The problem is, much "scientific" proof is based on the bias of there being no God. In order for evidence to be unbiased, someone would have to approach it with the attitude of, "There may be a God, or there may not." Few if any scientists are able to face a series of facts with that kind of non-bias.

There's no evidence that the world is that old. The c-14 dating is based on faulty assumptions of the levels of carbon and other substances in the air. Even in the past 100 years, the levels have fluctuated radically.

More accurate is the levels of star dust - which falls onto the earth at an approximately steady pace, and has since they started keeping track. Stardust levels indicate a timeline of approximately 9 - 10,000 years.

See, it all depends on what information you use. You believe that the evolution evidence is unbiased, but I see an immense amount of bias in it. Yes, I want to prove supernatural creation. But scientists are equally passionate to prove that there is no God.

Jordan Wright said:

One final question (directed at anyone who reads this) I would like to ask is why you believe in your God, Christian God, and not others such as Buddha or Ancient Egyptian Gods.
To me, if you can answer this I'll be able to tell you why I do not believe in your God.

Stephen Roberts said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"

And with that, I bid you farewell.

Click to expand...

Hello friend. The gods you list differ from one another according to their followers much like you and I are different.

It sounds so logically sweet to say theists are atheists of other religions, which is true. But however implausible it may be, one religion may be right.

its impossible that the universe begin by itself.
atheists claim that ''Big Bang'' made universe.if so,what caused big bang to be occured ? and also existence of big bang is not proven scientifically.

Hey now not all of us are born into it. I was never brought up in a Christian family. I am still the only Christian in my family. I found it on my own not because anyone made me because I wanted it and I know it to be the truth. No one can be a Christian and not choose it. This lifestyle is one that can't be pushed or taught unless the recipient wants it for themselves. Bottom line is nothing in life works that way if you don't want to listen or make a change you aren't going to do it.

Jordan Wright said:

I am sorry, I know it said this was a Christian only area but it was the closest area I found to do with my questions. (Mods, please move this if necessary)



I do not believe in God simply because there is no proof of God. If there was evidence that a deity existed I would welcome that evidence and therefore believe in that God and have a faith.

Due to the severe lack of evidence for any God whatsoever, why did you choose to believe the christian God and not others such as the Egyptian gods or Buddha?

I ask this as I am trying to expand my knowledge on why Christians are Christians. The most common reason so far is because they were born into a christian family and have therefore been brought up a christian with no choice in the matter.

Please respond, I am looking for a serious intellectual discussion about religion, I am not trying to force you out of Christianity I am just trying to understand your thought processes.

Click to expand...

Hiya, JW.

I think you might do well first of all to consider the difference between evidence and proof. You use the terms pretty well interchangeably, but they are not at all the same thing. You are not alone; even scientists fall into this one at times.

There is indeed evidence for God's existence. It is up to you to choose to regard that evidence as proof or not. As for why the Christian God and not another one, well, that is probably as much a matter of habit and familiarity as anything else, but it is also in my case to do with the character of Christ himself. It is difficult to imagine anyone who would offer more than he does; a higher morality to aspire to, a greater presence in life, a greater comfort in eternity.

Proof is always about faith, in science or out of it. If you do not believe the evidence, or the scientist, or the methodology, you will not have faith in the results. Objective proof of the kind you suggest quite simply does not exist anywhere, about anything. People are far too sceptical; you find me any scientific 'fact' and I will find you someone somewhere who does not believe it. Very often another scientist.

You are quite right to question the beliefs that you have been born into. I did the same thing. Even those of us fortunate enough to be born into a Christian family have to make our own journey of faith, and find out what is true for us. I found that the faith of my family was not quite the same as what is true for me, and I moved within the faith to a different emphasis, still within mainstream Christianity. Your journey may take you somewhere different. As long as you are true to yourself, and to what you know, you will be fine.

stormdancer0 said:

But scientists are equally passionate to prove that there is no God.

Click to expand...

Again, this is not about proof, but about the interpretation of evidence, which is always faith based, not proof based. No scientist would waste time trying to prove anything about what is not in creation. It is the same as asking them what came before the Big Bang; they have nothing to say about it because nothing can be said about before time begins, and time begins with the Big Bang. This is compatible with our faith; time begins with Creation, and God is outside time.

Stephen Hawking can assert that there is no God, but he cannot prove it. His belief is as good as the next man's, but it is based on belief; on interpretation, not on evidence. He has the same evidence as I have; he looks at a sunset and concludes; there is no God. I look at the same sunset and conclude, God is good. Same evidence, different interpretation.

Therefore, there is no reason at all why science and faith need be incompatible; there are many scientists who are able to believe in God, and many Christians such as myself who do not find Christian faith incompatible with acceptance of scientific findings. Science tells us how, faith tells us why.

I have no problem with the world being as old as science demonstrates it to be; if it is billions of years old that makes God more formidable, it does not disprove anything whatever about him.

You simply have to think of God trying to explain creation to Moses, or whoever wrote Genesis. How do you explain 12 billion to a man whose highest number is in the thousands, and who does not have the word 'billion' in his vocabularly? The answer is, you break those billions into ages, and you call them days. And then you bear in mind that the Psalms concur; to God a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day. In other words, time answers to God, not the other way round.