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I am a Christian!

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Although many did recant, the integrity of those on whom the Mormon church bases it's veracity makes this a moot point.

Joseph Smith had no more than a 6th grade education. He was known to have halucinations and dabbled in magic. By his own testamony, when he asked the apperition "who are you?", it answered "the angel of light". 2 Cor. 11:14 Gal. 1:7-9 Who was this angel?

(Martin Harris - the eldest and most reliable?)
Martin Harris' testimony shows him to be a gullible and unstable man. He changed his religious conviction approximately thirteen times. He had joined several Christian denominations and other cult groups that include the Universalists, Strangites, and the Shakers. (Ankerberg, 196) In Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith gave revelations in which he denounces Martin Harris and calls him a "wicked man." The Mormon leaders published an article in the Elder's Journal, a Mormon publication edited by Joseph Smith, in which they accused Harris guilty of "swearing, lying, cheating, swindling, drinking, with every species of debauchery. . ." (Elders Journal, August, 1838, 59). Here the leaders of the Mormon Church strongly criticize the character of Harris.

Oliver Cowdery was also shown to be a very gullible man. He was led astray by Hiram Page, one of the eight witnesses who himself claimed to have divine revelations from his own seer stone. Although Joseph Smith denounced Hiram as a false teacher, Smith stated "to our grief, however, we soon found that Satan had been lying in wait to deceive. . . . Brother Hiram Page had in his possession a certain stone, by which he obtained certain 'revelations' . . . all of which were entirely at variance with the order of God's House,." Despite Smith's condemnation, Oliver Cowdery joined Page's movement. Not only was he a gullible man, he was also indicted on several accounts of fraudulent business practices. The Mormon Church in a letter wrote, "During the career of Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer's bogus money business, it got abroad into the world that they were engaged in it. . . . We have evidence of a very strong character that you are at this very time engaged with a gang of counterfeiters, coiners, and blacklegs . . ." Cowdery was eventually excommunicated and he later joined the Methodist Church. Cowdery went to his death claiming the book of Doctrins and Covenents must be discarded.

The character and life of the eleven witnesses to the Book of Mormon are very different from the Apostles of Christ. None of the Apostles wavered in their defense of Christ, even though all suffered and most died for their faith. The Apostles remained consistent in their teaching and never fell into any type of apostasy. Their lives were marked by honesty and integrity. They were never indicted for any criminal activity except for preaching Christ. The character of the Book of Mormon's eleven witnesses does not strengthen Smith's defense but cast further doubt on its authenticity.

the Bible was not given to us in a word for word dictation form, nor is there a case of any biblical writer using an occult object to receive revelations from God. Mormons point to the use of the Urim and Thummim but their purpose was quite different. The Urim and Thummim were used for a time by the Aaronic priests only to gain answers of Yes or No from God to particular questions. Lots were cast to discern God's will, not to receive content for revelation. Finally, we must understand, the Aaronic priesthood and its practices are replaced by the finished work of Christ (Hebrews 7:12). Occult methods, such as crystal gazing, are forbidden in the Bible (Deuteronomy 18:9-14, Lev. 19:26, 31). Mormon theologian Bruce McConkie even denounces using objects to gain new revelation. He condemns Hiram Page, one of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon for using a seer stone to gain new revelations. Joseph Smith obtained his revelations contrary to the method of inspiration received by the biblical Prophets and Apostles.
 
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Blackmarch

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1 and only said:
Although many did recant, the integrity of those on whom the Mormon church bases it's veracity makes this a moot point.

Joseph Smith had no more than a 6th grade education. He was known to have halucinations and dabbled in magic. By his own testamony, when he asked the apperition "who are you?", it answered "the angel of light". 2 Cor. 11:14 Gal. 1:7-9 Who was this angel?
Or by his own testimony he said he saw two people (personages to be more accurate), and one said, "this is My Beloved Son, hear Him!"...
Simply amazing to what somebody who "dabbled in magic, and had halucinations" and had a 6th grade education level was able to do.
 
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emerald Dragon said:
To let you all know, I am a Christian. I have accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Without Him, I cannot be saved. He accepted my sins in the Garden of Getsemene, and died on the cross, and has paid the price. I know that if I repent of my sins, and pray to Him for forgiveness, He will wash away my sins, and I will be saved. I believe in God, Christ and the Holy Ghost. I am ever grateful for the guidance they have given to me, and for the many blessings that they have bestowed on me. Words cannot begin to express my gratitude.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
In Joseph Smith's vision the entity stated that "all Christian creeds are an abomination to me" In my view only one being would consider all of Christianity an abomination. After all, he didn't say Methodists are off the mark, or Lutherans are rather confused.... He said abomination!

So if all of Christianity is false, and Mormonism is the only true church... Why would Mormons want to claim Christianity?
 
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1 and only said:
In Joseph Smith's vision the entity stated that "all Christian creeds are an abomination to me" In my view only one being would consider all of Christianity an abomination. After all, he didn't say Methodists are off the mark, or Lutherans are rather confused.... He said abomination!

So if all of Christianity is false, and Mormonism is the only true church... Why would Mormons want to claim Christianity?
Why are catholics considered christian? They claim they are the one true church, as well.
 
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Swart

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CrownCaster said:
It is not your claim to the truth that takes away your status as a Christian church. It is heretical beliefs and practices.

I think your finding it hard to follow a logical construction.

The claim was that LDS claim to have the only true church. then, following a logical fallacy known as "if a then b. b therefore a" as follows:

Members of the true church are Christians. (if a then b)
All Christians must be members of the true church (b)
Therefore, Mormons claim to be the only true Christians since they claim to be the true church. (therefore a)

This is like saying:
Dogs are mammals
This animal is a mammal.
Therefore this animal is a dog.

This was countered by saying that Catholics also make this claim. That does not invalidate them from being Christian.

What you did CC, was introduce a new argument to the counter - which the counter was never designed to address.
 
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emerald Dragon

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Here is a question. How long will people continue to fight against the Truth? Until the Second Coming, when Christ will let all people know that He is the head of only one Church, the physical organization known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? He is still the head of the great body of believers, but the Head of only one Church. Does it take an act of God for these people to believe? It is saddening to see that the bible was true in its telling us that Satan would hold sway over many people in the last day. The great deceiver continues to cloud their minds.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
 
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Wrigley

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emerald Dragon said:
Here is a question. How long will people continue to fight against the Truth? Until the Second Coming, when Christ will let all people know that He is the head of only one Church, the physical organization known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? He is still the head of the great body of believers, but the Head of only one Church. Does it take an act of God for these people to believe? It is saddening to see that the bible was true in its telling us that Satan would hold sway over many people in the last day. The great deceiver continues to cloud their minds.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
LOL

Thanks for the chuckle.
 
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emerald Dragon

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Chuckle all you(you being plural-as in the world) will. But no matter how hard you fight, this work continues. The stone cut out of the mountain without human hands will roll forth until it fills the whole earth. The Truth will always remain, regardless of your opinions, or being clouded by Satan.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
 
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CrownCaster

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emerald Dragon said:
Here is a question. How long will people continue to fight against the Truth? Until the Second Coming, when Christ will let all people know that He is the head of only one Church, the physical organization known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? He is still the head of the great body of believers, but the Head of only one Church. Does it take an act of God for these people to believe? It is saddening to see that the bible was true in its telling us that Satan would hold sway over many people in the last day. The great deceiver continues to cloud their minds.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
LOL!!! ^_^ ^_^ Oh, you mormons are so funny sometimes.

Going to the mormon church- 10%
Spending time listening to the unsubtantiated one true and living church claims of the mormons- Priceless.
 
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CrownCaster

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emerald Dragon said:
Chuckle all you(you being plural-as in the world) will. But no matter how hard you fight, this work continues. The stone cut out of the mountain without human hands will roll forth until it fills the whole earth. The Truth will always remain, regardless of your opinions, or being clouded by Satan.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
Oh man, the comedy just never stops. You really should go on tour with this stuff. WHEEEEW! FUNNNY!!!! :clap: Cultists make me giggle.
 
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emerald Dragon said:
Chuckle all you(you being plural-as in the world) will. But no matter how hard you fight, this work continues. The stone cut out of the mountain without human hands will roll forth until it fills the whole earth. The Truth will always remain, regardless of your opinions, or being clouded by Satan.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
Do I get yer drift? Mormonism is this "stone" and all non-Mormons are fooled by Satan?

~ NEHI (just deluded enough to reject Moroni as baloney)
 
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emerald Dragon said:
Here is a question. How long will people continue to fight against the Truth? Until the Second Coming, when Christ will let all people know that He is the head of only one Church, the physical organization known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? He is still the head of the great body of believers, but the Head of only one Church. Does it take an act of God for these people to believe? It is saddening to see that the bible was true in its telling us that Satan would hold sway over many people in the last day. The great deceiver continues to cloud their minds.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon
Again, Mr. Dragon, are you saying that I am under the sway of Satan because I steadfastly declare Joseph Smith to be a false prophet?

I find these statements derogatory to those of us who affirm the Nicene Creed and reject the Book of Mormon.

Did it ever occur to you that YOU are posting in the UNORTHODOX Theology Section precisely because this forum considers YOUR theology unorthodox?

Your post implies that this website and it's owner are clouded by Satan, does it not?

~ NEHI (the concerned)
 
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Swart said:
I think your finding it hard to follow a logical construction.

The claim was that LDS claim to have the only true church. then, following a logical fallacy known as "if a then b. b therefore a" as follows:

Members of the true church are Christians. (if a then b)
All Christians must be members of the true church (b)
Therefore, Mormons claim to be the only true Christians since they claim to be the true church. (therefore a).
Could you please explain that, in english?
 
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Swart

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Swart

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Nehi said:
Again, Mr. Dragon, are you saying that I am under the sway of Satan because I steadfastly declare Joseph Smith to be a false prophet?

I find these statements derogatory to those of us who affirm the Nicene Creed and reject the Book of Mormon.
Lets apply a little 'reversal of the invective' on this one.
[Bible]1 Corinthians 12:3[/Bible]
I declare that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God and that salvation comes through faith in Christ Jesus and none other.

Am I under the influence of the Holy Ghost or some other spirit?

Nehi said:
Did it ever occur to you that YOU are posting in the UNORTHODOX Theology Section precisely because this forum considers YOUR theology unorthodox?
Is this safety in numbers?
[Bible]Matthew 7:14[/Bible]

Nehi said:
Your post implies that this website and it's owner are clouded by Satan, does it not?
I actually think we are all have our minds clouded in some way, and that Satan leaves many snares to trap us unawares. It is only through continuous study, prayer and humility that gradually the scales fall from our eyes and our spiritual vision improves.

[Bible]1 Corinthians 13:12[/Bible]
 
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