I’m Back (sort of)

[laptoppop]

It has been a while since I posted around here. I left in particular because I was tired.

I was tired of the treatment of YECs that was tolerated, in my opinion in violation of the rules. Feeling like the rules themselves meant nothing was the last straw.
I was tired of feeling like it was me versus a whole set of other folks in the discussion.
I was tired of trying to educate some folks as to what a dynamic global flood would look like, compared to their simplistic view.
I was tired of people insulting other people just because they disagreed with them.

I still don’t like any of these things. I don’t know if I will venture down into the general OT area. I don’t know how much, if anything, has changed.

I do know that I will NOT feel obligated to respond to everything (I WANT to respond, but I just don’t have the time)
I do know that I will try hard to not respond or get caught up into taunts or insults or content-free expressions.
I do know that I am very very busy. I am not able to make a large time commitment to these forums.
If I don’t respond to you, please don’t take it personally, or infer agreement from silence.

I am posting because I have the hubris to think that what I might write could be helpful to someone, or to the discussions. I’m posting a pretty long post next that covers some of my basic presuppositions, which I believe are fairly common among YECs. I call it Memes of Young Earth Creationism.

 

[Melethiel]

Nice to see you around again.

Unfortunately, not much has changed. YECs are still uneducated idiots, and TEs are still godless heathens deluding themselves into thinking they're Christian.

 

[marktheblake]

Unfortunately, not much has changed. YECs are still uneducated idiots, and TEs are still godless heathens deluding themselves into thinking they're Christian.

Thats not something i would expect to hear from a Christian

 

[laptoppop]

Thanks Mel. I figure I can hang around a bit and remind folks that a crazy YEC can be civil and maybe even a bit intelligent.

Mark - you gotta understand. Mel's a TE, I'm a YEC, but we both have always been respectful and friendly. She's kidding around (mostly). I put (mostly) because there's an element of truth in her reply that saddens me. Some folks have a hard time holding a position passionately and yet understanding that a godly loving intelligent Christian might disagree with them.

 

[marktheblake]

Lucky I didnt do my block then

 

[Melethiel]

Thats not something i would expect to hear from a Christian

laptoppop has it correct.

I'm sorry, I should have made it more clear that I was being somewhat facetious - I tend to forget that not everyone has been around long enough to "get the joke", so to speak.

 

[laptoppop]

laptoppop has it correct.

I think I should print this out, frame it, and hang it from my wall. <grin>

 

[marktheblake]

laptoppop has it correct.

I'm sorry, I should have made it more clear that I was being somewhat facetious

Facetious is my middle name, but markfacetiousblake sounded to silly so i shortened it.

 

[vossler]

It's great to have you back. Yes, not much has changed, but then again I don't think you expected it to either.

I haven't posted or participated much in the last year and a half either. That's in part due to my job and the pointlessness of getting into discussions as you described.

The difference for me is that I no longer feel obligated to respond to topics that are fruitless in nature. I try to restrict my responses to those who truly value what I may have to say or may not be so rigid in their thinking. I realize that severely limits my audience, but it also is a natural time allowance barrier as well.

Anyway, it's good to see you again. I'm looking forward to reading your well thought out posts.

 

[Assyrian]

Great to see you back laptoppop

Yay!

 

[juvenissun]

It has been a while since I posted around here. I left in particular because I was tired.

I was tired of feeling like it was me versus a whole set of other folks in the discussion.

I missed you. I thought you were not coming back.

People in OT are more thoughtful and the arguments are, in general, harder to deal with. But, that is the good part of the OT. OT issues are complicate. Try to deal with a small one at a time so you won't get burnt. God bless your mind.

 

[shernren]

Heya laptoppop. Probably the most exciting thing happening around here right now is a formal debate between me and mark: http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7305187

 

[keyarch]

Laptoppop, I feel exactly like you. It seems like the topics that I'd like to get into are already so corrupted by the time I see them that there's no point in getting started.

 

[mark kennedy]

Thanks Mel. I figure I can hang around a bit and remind folks that a crazy YEC can be civil and maybe even a bit intelligent.

Mark - you gotta understand. Mel's a TE, I'm a YEC, but we both have always been respectful and friendly. She's kidding around (mostly). I put (mostly) because there's an element of truth in her reply that saddens me. Some folks have a hard time holding a position passionately and yet understanding that a godly loving intelligent Christian might disagree with them.

I'm confused. I don't have a problem with light bantor and certainly don't mind someone getting a little dig in once in a while. My problem is at the same time doctrinal and scientific. I don't like TEs or other evolutionists telling me that I don't understand science when I probably read more of the scientific literature then they do. I do take it very seriously when they tell me I don't understand the Scriptures and simply do not compromise on these issues.

I realize that you don't like the contentious nature of these debates, I tend to agree that it is needless. I feel strongly that Christians have been taken in by these TOE arguments and they are compromising doctrinal positions. Recently I argued a Catholic scholar in the formal debate area and currently I am debating shernren on the doctrinal issues of evolution and human descent. I am going to the same book for the heart of my arguments and finding I have more in common with Catholics then I do with TEs.

This disturbs me since I am a died in the wool evangelical and justification by faith is one of the most important doctrines in my theology. I'm glad you got a break from the boards and pray you will continue to explore these issues in a serious and substantive manner. Melethiel seems like a nice person and a sincere Christian, I am just deeply concerned over doctrinal issues.

I always enjoyed your posts and I'm glad to see you giving the boards another chance. I left in disgust after the 7-7-7 rule change after I realized it was impossible to have a civil discussion. Traffic has slowed on here a bit and when I wandered back things had gotten a little better.

At any rate, I'm glad that your back, even sort of . I think it's very nice that you are cordial with TEs like Melethiel and I sincerely hope it results in a more civil and substantive discussion forum.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Heya laptoppop. Probably the most exciting thing happening around here right now is a formal debate between me and mark: http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7305187

Isn't that a sad commentary on the state of the Origins Theology Forum, the most exciting thing going on is a debate between us two knucleheads. I hope that means that things can only improve.

Laptoppop, I feel exactly like you. It seems like the topics that I'd like to get into are already so corrupted by the time I see them that there's no point in getting started.

I honestly feel that if noncreationsts would conduct themselves more as guests in the Creationism forum and less like invaders things could improve greatly. There are still some fascinating subjects that could be discussed on here if there was a way of keeping things substantive and civil. Paul tells us in I Corinthians 14 to do all things unto edification and since this is now treated as a Christians only forum I'm wondering if that wouldn't be a good rule of thumb for posters.

I'm as bad as anyone for contributing to the chaos and conflict that spoils so many of these discussions. There needs to be a standard, one that is comprehensive and focused on substance rather then winning a point. I'm hoping things will improve and I'm hanging around doing what I can to make a contribution.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Mallon]

Welcome back, pop!

 

[juvenissun]

Laptoppop, I feel exactly like you. It seems like the topics that I'd like to get into are already so corrupted by the time I see them that there's no point in getting started.

In my experience, one could ALWAYS reiterate one small key point of confusion (dig it deeper), no matter how corruptive the whole issue have rendered. Then the whole debate could be quickly revived around the new point you brought in, with a totally new spirit. In this way, you are in control of the debate, but not dragged along by others.