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Hypothetical question

tailgator

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Zech 14 talks about all nations coming against Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women.
As of today,there are millions of Muslims in the countries surrounding Israel who would like nothing more than to kill every jew as they are instructed in the Hadith.

Given that the US is Israel's ally and the prophecy in zech 14 is inevitable,What do you believe the president would do with Muslims going throughout Israel killing all the Jews,as well as dancing over the corpses of the US ambassador,and all US servicemen in Israel and over the corpses of everyone in the Israeli government?


A-Does he attack all the Muslim nations that invaded Israel with conventional weapons in a looooong drawn out war?

B-Does he use nukes against all those nations and end it quickly?

C-Or does he convert to Islam as Muslims believe all nations will?

D-None of the above.
 

Richard T

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Logically, since Israel is surrounded by enemies, the USA is out of the picture in coming to Israel's defense. So either the USA is incapable, or unwilling. Either way it looks bad for the USA.
 
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Douggg

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Zech 14 talks about all nations coming against Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women.
As of today,there are millions of Muslims in the countries surrounding Israel who would like nothing more than to kill every jew as they are instructed in the Hadith.

Given that the US is Israel's ally and the prophecy in zech 14 is inevitable,What do you believe the president would do with Muslims going throughout Israel killing all the Jews,as well as dancing over the corpses of the US ambassador,and all US servicemen in Israel and over the corpses of everyone in the Israeli government?


A-Does he attack all the Muslim nations that invaded Israel with conventional weapons in a looooong drawn out war?

B-Does he use nukes against all those nations and end it quickly?

C-Or does he convert to Islam as Muslims believe all nations will?

D-None of the above.
D-None of the above.

Islam will not exist when the events of Zechariah 14 take place.

Zechariah 14 is at the end of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9. Jesus returns in Zechariah 14:4 to stand on the Mt. of Olives splitting it half.

Islam will not be existing at that time because the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 involving the Muslim nations intent on destroying Israel, their armies will be destroyed supernaturally - proving the God of Israel is not the Muslim god Allah.

Then in the aftermath of the Gog/Magog event, the prince that shall come (Daniel 9:26) from the EU, north and west of Israel, into the middle east, will embraced by the Jews thinking he is their long awaited king of Israel messiah. And the person will be anointed the king of Israel by the false prophet person.

That person anointed the king of Israel will be the Antichrist.

Islam devastated by their failed prophecies to have victory over Israel and their concept of the Antichrist, what they call the dajjal will not match the person. The Muslims believe that the dajjal will have a bulging eye like a grape, and the name "kafur" in his forehead, and will come from the east. The failure of all their eschatology will be the demise of Islam.
 
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keras

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Zechariah 14:1-2 Prophesies about when the Anti-Christ conquers the Christian peoples, as per Revelation 13:5-7 and Daniel 11:32-35.

Proved by Revelation 12, where half of the people will be taken to safety and the rest must remain under persecution. Verses 14 & 17.
Also as stated in Zechariah 14:2b....half of the city will leave and half will stay.

Zechariah 14:3, then goes on to Prophesy about the glorious Return of Jesus, which we know comes 3 1/2 years - 42 months or 1260 days later.

As for America and their President, they will be powerless to intervene. Jeremiah 50:23

I agree that Islam will be discredited and virtually gone. The 'beast' of Revelation 13; the Anti0Christ man, will demand worship of himself.
 
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tailgator

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D-None of the above.

Islam will not exist when the events of Zechariah 14 take place.

Zechariah 14 is at the end of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9. Jesus returns in Zechariah 14:4 to stand on the Mt. of Olives splitting it half.

Islam will not be existing at that time because the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 involving the Muslim nations intent on destroying Israel, their armies will be destroyed supernaturally - proving the God of Israel is not the Muslim god Allah.

Then in the aftermath of the Gog/Magog event, the prince that shall come (Daniel 9:26) from the EU, north and west of Israel, into the middle east, will embraced by the Jews thinking he is their long awaited king of Israel messiah. And the person will be anointed the king of Israel by the false prophet person.

That person anointed the king of Israel will be the Antichrist.

Islam devastated by their failed prophecies to have victory over Israel and their concept of the Antichrist, what they call the dajjal will not match the person. The Muslims believe that the dajjal will have a bulging eye like a grape, and the name "kafur" in his forehead, and will come from the east. The failure of all their eschatology will be the demise of Islam.
My oh my how you think highly of apostate Israel.So much so you believe God will save the antichrists.

The beast is destroyed 1000 years before Gog comes against Israel.This is Israel,the son of God in revelation 20 reigning in the land of Israel when Gog comes against Israel.

Revelation 19
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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tailgator

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Zechariah 14:1-2 Prophesies about when the Anti-Christ conquers the Christian peoples, as per Revelation 13:5-7 and Daniel 11:32-35.

Proved by Revelation 12, where half of the people will be taken to safety and the rest must remain under persecution. Verses 14 & 17.
Also as stated in Zechariah 14:2b....half of the city will leave and half will stay.

Zechariah 14:3, then goes on to Prophesy about the glorious Return of Jesus, which we know comes 3 1/2 years - 42 months or 1260 days later.

As for America and their President, they will be powerless to intervene. Jeremiah 50:23

I agree that Islam will be discredited and virtually gone. The 'beast' of Revelation 13; the Anti0Christ man, will demand worship of himself.
No,Trump wants everyone in the middle east to bow the knee to the Israeli government.
They will or his armed forces will rain fire down from heaven on them.In his words,there will be hell to pay.
 
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tailgator

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Logically, since Israel is surrounded by enemies, the USA is out of the picture in coming to Israel's defense. So either the USA is incapable, or unwilling. Either way it looks bad for the USA.
The US could respond in a few days.
 
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Douggg

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My oh my how you think highly of apostate Israel.So much so you believe God will save the antichrists.

The beast is destroyed 1000 years before Gog comes against Israel.This is Israel,the son of God in revelation 20 reigning in the land of Israel when Gog comes against Israel.
Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8 is indicating in the final rebellion of the nations after the 1000 years is over as being the same nations that made up Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39, previously.

On my chart below on the left is the Gog/Magog attack of Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39. Followed by the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9. And Jesus return in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Then the 1000 year millennium.

Then the final rebellion of the nations including the Gog-Magog nations


final rebellion 4.jpg
 
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tailgator

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Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8 is indicating in the final rebellion of the nations after the 1000 years is over as being the same nations that made up Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39, previously.

On my chart below on the left is the Gog/Magog attack of Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39. Followed by the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9. And Jesus return in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Then the 1000 year millennium.

Then the final rebellion of the nations including the Gog-Magog nations





View attachment 362909
The Gog in revelation 20 which comes against Israel is the same Gog as Ezekiel 38 which comes against Israel

It is the exact same final war.There is no more war in Ezekiel after chapter 38-39.

And just so you know.
It takes place after Israel is risen out of their graves by God in Ezekiel 37.


Ezekiel 37​

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.​

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,​




Oh wait,your one of those people who doesn't believe God can raise the dead out of their graves.
Correct?
You don't believe Israel can be raised from the dead in Ezekiel 37 ,do you?
 
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Douggg

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The Gog in revelation 20 which comes against Israel is the same Gog as Ezekiel 38 which comes against Israel

It is the exact same final war.There is no more war in Ezekiel after chapter 38-39.
There are 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9 that follow the Gog/Magog event. Those 7 years are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

At the end of the 7 years, Ezekiel 39:17-20 is Revelation 19:17-18.

Ezekiel 39:
17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation 19:
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
 
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keras

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It is quite ridiculous to conflate the Gog/Magog incident with Armageddon.
They are different in every respect, excepting how the carrion birds and animals feast on the carcasses. Just the same as in innumerable past battles.
 
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Douggg

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It is quite ridiculous to conflate the Gog/Magog incident with Armageddon.
They are different in every respect, excepting how the carrion birds and animals feast on the carcasses. Just the same as in innumerable past battles.
keras, you misunderstood what I wrote. I am not saying Gog/Magog event is the Armageddon event.

I am saying that Gog/Magog event takes place and when it is over, there are 7 years that follow.

At the end of those 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 is the Armageddon event of Ezekiel 39:17-20 = Revelation 19:17-18.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gog/Magog event................then 7 years..........................then Ezekiel 39:17-20=Revelation 19:17-18, Armageddon.

The first 7 months of the 7 years, Israel spends burying the dead of God's army, Ezekiel 39:12.


Ezekiel 39.jpg
 
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Douggg

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Ezekiel 39 is the most critical chapter in the bible of how the end times events will fit and take place. The 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27. All of these events are packed into that 7years that follow the Gog/Magog event.


time frames 4.jpg
 
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keras

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Doug

My eschatology objective is I try to understand the prophecies to put them all together into a start to finish scenario where everything fits together. That's the objective for me.

One day, soon, understanding will come to you; as the end time events take place.

It simply isn't possible for Armageddon to be exactly 7 years after the G/M attack. The final 7 years of this age will commence with a peace treaty between the inhabitants of the holy Land and the leader of the One World Govt, As Daniel 9:27 tells us.
Referred to as the treaty of Death in; Isaiah 28:14-15

It will be the attack and total defeat of the Gog/Magog, which motivates the OWG leader to make this treaty. At least a year between those events.
 
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Douggg

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The final 7 years of this age will commence with a peace treaty between the inhabitants of the holy Land and the leader of the One World Govt, As Daniel 9:27 tells us.

It will be the attack and total defeat of the Gog/Magog, which motivates the OWG leader to make this treaty. At least a year between those events.
If Israel's enemies are destroyed in the Gog/Magog event, then why would anyone need to make a peace treaty ?

It does not say peace treaty in Daniel 9:27.
 
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keras

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If Israel's enemies are destroyed in the Gog/Magog event, then why would anyone need to make a peace treaty ?

It does not say peace treaty in Daniel 9:27.
What other kind of treaty could it be? Or as is often mis-translated - a covenant. Which is wrong, as Covenants do not have an end date, they only finish when broken by one or the other party.

It is easy to see why the leader of the OWG comes to the new nation of Beulah, after the shocking and total defeat of Gog and his army. He will want the peoples in the holy Land to be his friends, not his enemies.
But as we are told, Satan will motivate him to attack after half of this treaty has passed and he will be successful. Zephaniah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:1-7
 
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Douggg

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What other kind of treaty could it be? Or as is often mis-translated - a covenant. Which is wrong, as Covenants do not have an end date, they only finish when broken by one or the other party.
Covenant. It is not a mis-translation.

In the kjv, it is not only convenant, but 'the" covenant. In Daniel 9:3, Daniel inferred the Mt. Sinai covenant. In Deuteronomy 31:9-13, Moses made a law to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on 7 year cycle.... i.e. for 7 years... in the text.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Can you find in the old testament any previous peace treaty(s) that had a 7 year stipulation to them ?

It is easy to see why the leader of the OWG comes to the new nation of Beulah, after the shocking and total defeat of Gog and his army. He will want the peoples in the holy Land to be his friends, not his enemies.
keras, you theorize (view) that the present population of Israel will be destroyed by a solar flare event. If so, what about the populations of nations in the same area, such as Iran and Turkey, likewise, destroyed ? They would then have no populations to attack Israel (Beulah in your view) in the Gog/Magog event.

Which comes first in your theory (view)... The creation of a OWG with its leader being the Antichrist (I presume). Or the solar flare event ?

Does the leader of the OWG support the Gog/Magog invasion ? If not, then why would he want to make a peace treaty with Israel - since he did not sponsor the Gog/Magog invasion ?
 
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keras

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Covenant. It is not a mis-translation.
Covenant. It is not a mis-translation.
It causes confusion. Reliance on the KJV, is a bad mistake, as many scholars have proved from modern knowledge of Hebrew and Greek.

What do you think the terms of this agreement are; if not a peace treaty?
Can you find in the old testament any previous peace treaty(s) that had a 7 year stipulation to them ?
Over the ages, there have been many fixed term agreements. Not an unusual thing.
Which comes first in your theory (view)... The creation of a OWG with its leader being the Antichrist (I presume). Or the solar flare event ?
The terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, instigated by a huge explosion on the suns surface.
It will set the scene for the One World Govt, initially led by ten Presidents. Soon taken over by one man. Revelation 17:12
keras, you theorize (view) that the present population of Israel will be destroyed by a solar flare event.
Zephaniah 1:18, Hosea 4:3 and Ezekiel 21:1-7, +, plainly prophesy the virtual wipe out of Jewish Israel.
What else should God do with a people who reject Jesus? They have had 2000 years to get right with God.
Does the leader of the OWG support the Gog/Magog invasion ? If not, then why would he want to make a peace treaty with Israel - since he did not sponsor the Gog/Magog invasion ?
The 'beast' will probably support the G.M invasion. But it seems the G/M armies will mostly come from the distant reaches of the North, Ezekiel 38:6 Not the main centre's of the OWG.
For sure; it will be a big shock to him, to hear of their total destruction.
 
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Douggg

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It causes confusion. Reliance on the KJV, is a bad mistake, as many scholars have proved from modern knowledge of Hebrew and Greek.

What do you think the terms of this agreement are; if not a peace treaty?

The covenant is the Mt Sinai covenant. It is a covenant that God offered to Daniel's people, the children of Israel, at Mt. Sinai.

Which they said yes, we agree, to all of God's terms. The main term was that the children of Israel were to have no other gods but the One True God.

Judaism still goes by the Mt. Sinai covenant, and the Jews are expecting their king of Israel messiah, after the Gog/Magog event according to the Judaism 101 website. The little horn, as the prince that shall come following Gog/Magog, the Jews will think he is their long awaited messiah.

The little horn person will cater to their wishes as the false prophet anoints him the king of Israel. He will then confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant in the manner Moses described in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 by making a big speech to the nation of Israel from the temple mount, that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. Thus beginning the 7 years.
 
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