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Hypothetical: Creationism becomes standard in science classes

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Paul of Eugene OR

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. . . Also, I think dinosaurs were manufactured as part of ancient DNA experimentation.

How can we tell this notion of "DNA experimentation" from Darwinian Mutation plus survival of the fittest?
 
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Ken Behrens

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How can you tell, given that you reject their use of evidence?
I do not reject the use of evidence obtained within the last couple centuries. Only the implications of that evidence extended past the time of its measurement.
 
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Ken Behrens

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How can we tell this notion of "DNA experimentation" from Darwinian Mutation plus survival of the fittest?
We can't right now. The technology documents of the past have never been examined.
 
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Ken Behrens

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Floods don't produce hundreds of feet of chalk deposits made out of tiny microorganisms.
But splitting of continents with the addition of molten metal falling from the sky creates conditions where they can grow very quickly on the ripped apart spots.
 
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Loudmouth

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But splitting of continents with the addition of molten metal falling from the sky creates conditions where they can grow very quickly on the ripped apart spots.

Based on what evidence? You seem to be making that up.
 
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Queller

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When you speed up to pass another car, you leave evidence behind that you did it. One example is increased emissions from the engine.

If light sped up or slowed down, it would leave evidence behind.
 
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Queller

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Absolutely. I am opposed only to their concluding the job is done in some field
Can you give an example of one field in which it is claimed there is nothing left to do?

when they have yet to be able to convince even a small segment of the world's population that their results imply this.
You think that 62% of Americans accepting that humans evolved over time is a small segment? Don't forget that acceptance of evolution is, on average, much higher around the world than it is in the US.
 
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Queller

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Can you give even one example of this happening? Specifically that someone said "I have a million dollars" and then having a million dollars appear in their bank account.
 
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Queller

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Things like annual layers of winter snow in icelandic and antarctic ice cores, with age determined by counting them. Counting annual layers of silt laid down in lakes. Counting annual growth layers in sea corals.
I have no problem with any of those as ways of determining age. However the specific example discussed measuring radioactive decay in an airplane.

Maybe I'm missing something?
 
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PsychoSarah

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But splitting of continents with the addition of molten metal falling from the sky creates conditions where they can grow very quickly on the ripped apart spots.
-_- there are biological limits as to how quickly micro-organisms (or any organism, really) can grow and reproduce, even with the most ideal conditions, and it wouldn't be anywhere near fast enough to make that much chalk in the short time frame demanded by a young Earth.

Also, the conditions you describe sound more like it would kill these creatures than be beneficial to them.
 
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Queller

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1. I agree, and I am objecting to scientists doing that.
Scientists don't do that. They look at the evidence we have today and look at how things would be different if (for example) the speed of light were different in the past. Then they design tests to look for evidence of a difference.

2. I gave the date 3122. This is based on the calendars zeroing out Dec. 21, 3121, and various ancient writings. Pre-Egyptian culture starts around 3100. The book of Jubilees calls Kainan the culprit, and says he "Sinned by doing that".
3122 BC is a little over 5100 years ago, exactly what I said. The Flood is dated to 4000 years ago, approximately 2000 BC. Yet the Egyptian culture has no gap indicating they were wiped out by the Flood 1100 years after their recorded history began.

3. The same way the world has added 2 billion people just in my lifetime.
Oh my, that's scary. Do you honestly believe that the earth's population has been growing at the same rate as it today for the past 4000 years?

Here's some info for you.

The current population growth percent is about 1.11%

If you start with a population of 8 in 2000BC (Noah, his wife, their sons and their wives) and have a population growth rate of 1.11%, in 6000 years (approximately the time Moses lives) you have a population of about 5,700 people. Nowhere near enough people.

Not to mention that by 2017 (approximately 4,000 years post Flood) you have a worldwide population of more than 8,000,000,000,000,000,000 people. The earth has a total square footage of land area of 5,490,000,000,000,000 sq ft. IOW, if the population had been growing at the same rate it is today for 4,000 years, there would be 1,457 people per square foot of land area on earth.

Where are they?

4. Sorry, there are too many posts. I forgot what this one was about.
Sigh. It's a relatively simple matter to click on the "up arrow" next to each quoted post.

Here's a referesher.

Ken Behrens: I sure don't trust anything I see in real life.
Queller: Don't you read the Bible in real life?
Ken Behrenns: I do not need it in heaven.
Queller: We're not talking about heaven. We're talking about right here on Earth, in the present time. You know, real life.

Your response?

5. I do not expect otherwise. The problem is that there is one consensus among scientists and another among those who hear them talk.
Which ones have spent a career developing and refining the evidence and which ones haven't?

I don't know about you, but if I'm going to build a home, I'm going to go with the plan developed by architects and engineers who have spent their lives learning to build homes. I'm not going to go with Mike the radiologist's ideas on how to build a home.

6. Right, they do not claim it. I am doing it for them.
What makes you think that scientists believe that an unknown entity is influencing their results?

7. Agree completely. But pastors do not agree what the rules are. (separate topic)
The vast majority of them do, in fact, agree on the basics.

8. They should not, any more than we should trust them.
They thing is, scientist don't trust that.

Why shouldn't we trust scientists when it comes to their area of expertise?

Do you not trust the doctor that diagnoses cancer after looking at the biopsy results?
 
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Queller

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Can you find any place it ever has?
The current knowledge about climate change.

You've been given many more examples from the fields of medicine, geology and the like and you have dismissed them without explaining why they aren't good examples.
 
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Queller

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I'm sorry, this is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read. The idea that all the stars are the same distance away from us is ridiculous in the extreme.

To answer your scenario though, the closest star to us is Alpha Centauri. It's about 4.4 light years away. HIP 72131 is a star that is in close visual proximity to Alpha Centauri (close as in a few micrometers) and is about 158 ly away. For Alpha Centauri to appear to cross in front of HIP 72131 the earth would have to have an orbit in at least in the trillions of miles, if not more.

That's like standing in New Jersey and expecting the tip of the torch on the Statue of Liberty to cross in front of the Empire State Building by moving five feet to your left.
 
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Queller

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I'm guessing, but it's a question of sales.
I asked you who is paying scientists to say that there is no real benefit to non-homogenized milk.

It can't be the milk companies. After all, they would just sell non-homogenized milk at the same price and increase their profits since they aren't having to pay to have the milk homogenized. So who is paying scientists to say that there is no real benefit to non-homogenized milk?

Milk that must be shaken involves a retraining of the population.
Whoopee. Carrying a palm-sized computer and communications device around in your pocket involved a retraining of the population. It didn't take very long.

Not to mention that we already shake up other liquids before drinking them (orange juice comes to mind).

The arguments I read in favor of non-homogenized milk (that offered absolutely nothing in the way of evidence for their claims) is that milk has an enzyme that when digested through intake of homogenized milk gets deposited in your arteries and when digested through intake of non-homogenized milk does not. Not the other way around.
 
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Queller

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The evidence of psychokinesis that could affect it. (There have been such experiments).
And did they find any evidence?

Here's a hint, I already know the answer.

Also, whether it is affected by the quantum observer effect, as is photons.
Schrodinger's decay? Or should that be Heisenberg's decay?
 
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Queller

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Have you heard of the experiments testing prayer in the effects of healing?
Yes, I have heard of those experiments. I have also not heard of a single one that got positive empirical results.

I have heard unreplicated evidence of healing time shortened by two-thirds and pain as reported by victims reduced by 1/2. That's one way.
Pain is subjective. Ever heard of the placebo effect?

There are also old experiments testing whether plants that are prayed over grow better than others. I have heard several resutls th

And yet there are salt water lakes on the tops of mountains.
Yes. And? Do you think that presents some kind of problem?

ANd that mammoth with tropical grass in its stomach found in Siberia.
I've never found any reference to that other than creationists websites. I'm more than a touch skeptical.

And here's one of the premier creationist websites on the matter
Woolly mammoths snap frozen?
 
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