Hypnosis

[Havoc]

Interesting that Some Christians say hypnosis is wrong but seem perfectly ok with it when it gives "proof" of SRA. Hmmmm...

BTW Hobokinite, people aren't unwillingly into Witchcraft. To try to force someone onto a path is against our most dearly held tenets. I suppose if you only read Christian propaganda about Witches you might be led to believe differently. Christian sources are generally abysmally inaccurate where it coems to other religions.

 

[Hobokinite]

Havoc,

Sorry to equate witchcraft with other things. I'm over generalizing the word. No offense.

I think SRA is real but not as widespread as Christian conspiracy theorists believe.

I don't believe that hypnosis is a good way to uncover that. Hypnosis is a good way to plant false memories. Thus, the hysteria and over reportage.


I guess you don't believe in SRA, but that's what I mean by unwillingly. Also, you can do stuff in ignorance and open yourself up. Playing with an Oujia Board can be innocently enough - the results are the same.

I've also noticed that the non-Christians who post on this Christian board tend to be even more legalistic than any Fundamentalist I've ever encountered.

Lighten up guys and keep the sarcasm in check. Life is short!

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by Hesmyall
Hmmm, so when someone is hypnotized and they are told to bark like a dog they must be a dog??

You mean like in a 'funny' show?

If you have a strong personality you can make a weaker person bark like a dog, while that person is fully conscious. Next time you see or you are in such a hocus pocus show, watch the hypnotist closely. See, on how selective he/she is about the 'victims'. He/she chooses the weakest in a given crowd. Then he takes seconds to put them under his/her spell. At best those people are in a mild trance, like being drunk.

Now go to a normal party, and simply encourage the clown(s) to act funny. Simply say: "Hey dude you know what would be really funny, if you go around the kitchen and ... " A minute later he/she will just do what you encouraged him/her to do. Did you hypnotize that person? No. You simply drew out one of his/her personality trait. With some practice and training you will be amazed how easy it is to make people do stuff.

What I was referring too is a prolonged serious and deep hypnosis. If it is not in your sub consciousness already, no hypnotist can make you do what you are not willing to do. For that one needs to resort to brainwashing techniques which is an entire different matter. There you put stuff into the brain. Now that can be viscious.

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by Hobokinite
I guess you don't believe in SRA, but that's what I mean by unwillingly.

What is SRA?

 

[Micaiah]

I found the following Link on Hypnosis of interest.

The following comment was made on whether a person can be made to do something agains their will under hypnosis:

- There is some controversy as to whether or not a hypnotist can cause a person to do something against his will. Many hypnotists say categorically that the will cannot be violated. However, the evidence is otherwise. Hypnosis heightens a person's suggestibility to the point that the subject will believe almost anything the hypnotist tells him -- even to the point of hallucinating at the hypnotist's suggestion. During hypnosis, a person's critical abilities are reduced in such a way as to create what has been called a "trance logic" that undiscerningly accepts what would normally seem irrational, illogical, and incompatible.

Because almost anything can be made to seem plausible to someone in the trance state, it is possible for a hypnotized person to act against his will -- to do what he would not do outside of the hypnotic state. Hypnosis bypasses the will by placing personal responsibility outside of objective, rational, critical choice. With normal evaluating abilities submerged, suggestibility heightened, and rational restraint reduced, the will is seriously hampered and is, at the very least, capable of being violated.

Under hypnosis, people's behaviour is not normal. Their thinking becomes irrational and illogical. In that frame of mind the hypnotist's suggestion can cause them to do things they would normally resist.

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by Micaiah
I found the following Link on Hypnosis of interest.

The following comment was made on whether a person can be made to do something agains their will under hypnosis:



Under hypnosis, people's behaviour is not normal. Their thinking becomes irrational and illogical. In that frame of mind the hypnotist's suggestion can cause them to do things they would normally resist.

The report also wrote:
Hypnotism is demonic at its worst and potentially dangerous at its best. At its worst, it opens an individual to psychic experiences and satanic possession.

I know this is not the science forum. Yet, there is no proof for the above or the entire web site. No one excludes the possibility to influence the weak personality types. But they would be influenced any which way.

So I counter with a study for smokers. If anyone can influence others to do what they normally would not want to do, they certainly should be able to coerce other to do what they want to do, in this case stop smoking.

Abstract from a paper presented 2000 at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Association
In short, hypnosis can not be considered to be a specific and efficacious treatment for smoking cessation. Furthermore, in many cases, it is impossible to rule out cognitive/behavioral and educational interventions as the source of positive treatment gains associated with hypnotic treatments. Hypnosis can not, as yet, be regarded as a well-established treatment for smoking cessation.

 

[Micaiah]

I don't think anyone suggests a person under hypnosis has the same ability to reason and control themselves as when they are in a normal state of consciousness.

I'm not sure what your smoking example proves. Ideas or thoughts induced under hypnosis wouldn't necessarily have lasting effects once a person came out of hypnosis. I guess if the hypnotist retained some residual control of a person coming out of hypnosis, the person could have a better chance of overcoming a habit. However, the notion of someone having that sort of control outside of hypnosis would be a concern.

 

[Havoc]

Originally posted by Hank
What is SRA?

SRA is Satanic Ritual Abuse. It was the conspiracy de jour for Christians back in the seventies. Generally considered to have been started by the stories of Mike Warnke, Michelle Padzer, and Rebecca Brown, SRA proponents claim there is a worldwide organisation of hereditary Satanists who sacrifice 60,000 people a year yet neve leave a trace.  Even though all three of those people were exposed as complete frauds by Christian investigators, and a complete investigation by the FBI and other police agencies showed absolutely no basis for believing that anything of the sort exists, many Christians still cling to their precious need for an enemy. Many Christian "counselors" make a consicerable living, even today, "treating" the unfortunate "victims" of this nonexistent conspiracy. The mentally ill people whom these "therapists" treat unfortunatly never get a chance to see reall thereapists who can help them with their actual problems.

 

[brother friar]

I do not believe that Hypnosis is real. I believe it is just a person being open to the power of suggestion. Those who say it works wanted it to work. When I was younger I was "hypnotised" and found that it was just me being open to the others suggestions. It worked until they made a suggestion and I didn't respond so they "helped me" which showed me that they were trying to be in control. I believe that we always have the power to resist, both God and others. "Resist the devil and he will flee" People love to give others control over them so they don't have to take responsibility for themselves or their own actions.

I do believe that our past experiences can have a prodound effect on our present behavior, especially when we have not dealt with the past. Post traumatic Stress Syndrome can be like the repressed memories that people say they recover in hypnosis. But you don't have to be hypnotised to remember.

I believe that hpnosis is just the power of suggestion at work and it can be dangerous if you allow the wrong person to suggest things to you.

 

[Micaiah]

I'd be interested to hear the opinion of those who have undergone hypnosis on whether it is real. My reading indicates there has been much research done on the subject, and it indicates there is more to it than what you suggest. I understand there are various levels of hypnosis.

 

[feral]

when i was hypnotized...it was not against my will exactly. we were all curious and playing party-games. whatever the ouija board thing was, either spirit or just some other player pretending...it didn't get specific. i think my own spiritual weirdness is not due tothat.

i had a ouija board like three years ago that my roommate and i played with..and that manifested a lot of strange stuff. but..i can't say i'm too concerned. and honestly..i do believe that if done by a psychotherapist and not a bunch of sugar-high teens...hypnosis does work. i just won't ever do it again because my experiences scared me. it's valid, i'm sure...in other arenas.

and witchcraft was never a part of what happened with hypnosis. i explored wicca for about two years and then kemet (egyptian) paganism, but none of those experiences made use of ouija or had any bad results.

 

[Hobokinite]

I used to agree with Havoc about SRA until I started seeing it crop up a few times in ministry.

Could it be mass hysteria like those claiming to have been abducted by UFOs? I don't know. I just see too many similar issues and body language in these people.

So, let me put this out there. Who or what do you think you are contacting via an oujia board?

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by Micaiah
I'm not sure what your smoking example proves. Ideas or thoughts induced under hypnosis wouldn't necessarily have lasting effects once a person came out of hypnosis. I guess if the hypnotist retained some residual control of a person coming out of hypnosis, the person could have a better chance of overcoming a habit. However, the notion of someone having that sort of control outside of hypnosis would be a concern.

I am refuting your notion that people under hypnosis can be influenced "to do things they would normally resist"; and the entire web site. It shows no proof, only dark age opinions.

That is why I used the study about smoking. It shows, yes people obviously are influenced by hypnosis, but in the end they do what they want to do.

 

[Havoc]

Originally posted by Hobokinite
I used to agree with Havoc about SRA until I started seeing it crop up a few times in ministry.

Could it be mass hysteria like those claiming to have been abducted by UFOs? I don't know. I just see too many similar issues and body language in these people.

So, let me put this out there. Who or what do you think you are contacting via an oujia board?

My opinion is based on very careful and documented research done by Christian investigators and formal investigations done by NA's top crime investigation units. Yours is based on what appears to be untrained observation and anecdote. That doesn't mean you havn't seen things, it just means that the likelihood of them being SRA is small. Remember all the people who saw all the signs and were convinced of SRA being real? They were wrong. There just isn't a single shred of substantive evidence of SRA, and hiding something like that from law enforcement really isn't a plausible option. I don't know what it is you've seen but I might recommend that any alleged victims of SRA should be seen by a professional.

The problem comes from a religion that bases it's duality on a perception of the Universe as an armed camp with Good (Gods people) being against Evil (Satan and Disney). IF you don't have an enemy you're entire faith structure breaks down. With the fall of European Communism there was a void on the evil side that had to be filled. SRA was born, an invention of the Christian community to conjure themselves up an Evil enemy.

Why are you jumping from SRA to Ouija? There doesn't really seem to be much of a connection

 

[Hobokinite]

The connection is about there being a spirit world.

 

[Havoc]

Could you define the connection a little less broadly? Are you suggesting that Ouija boards lead to SRA?

 

[Hobokinite]

Just that Ouji boards are proof that there is a spirit world. Playing with it can open you up to things you might not want to be playing with.

It really has no relationship to SRA other that there is evil out there and I'd rather not be tapping into it.

"My opinion is based on very careful and documented research done by Christian investigators and formal investigations done by NA's top crime investigation units. " - Well, The Warren Commision found no evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy either.

 

[Arikay]

Really they are proof?

Can you explain with facts how they are proof?

Or is this just your opinion?

Originally posted by Hobokinite
Just that Ouji boards are proof that there is a spirit world. Playing with it can open you up to things you might not want to be playing with.

It really has no relationship to SRA other that there is evil out there and I'd rather not be tapping into it.

"My opinion is based on very careful and documented research done by Christian investigators and formal investigations done by NA's top crime investigation units. " - Well, The Warren Commision found no evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy either.

 

[Hobokinite]

I have no proof just experience. But just like the Kennedy Assination, what proof do we need to know that something is fishy.

Like Havok posted, SRA is probably wildly over reported.

But, I know it exists.

I'm no expert so let's drop the subject. I'm sure you can find many websites about it.

 

[Arikay]

IC, so saying there was proof was only your opinion.

carefull when calling opinions fact.

Originally posted by Hobokinite
I have no proof just experience. But just like the Kennedy Assination, what proof do we need to know that something is fishy.

Like Havok posted, SRA is probably wildly over reported.

But, I know it exists.

I'm no expert so let's drop the subject. I'm sure you can find many websites about it.