Hyphenated last names

[RedPonyDriver]

I said "God"...NOT "the Universe."

If you failed to understand whom I was referring to with the term Sovereign of the Universe, then I will say that I correctly estimated your ability to comprehend written language.

 

[Dave-W]

I choose to respect and support God's purpose as set forth in the biblical model of marriage and names.

Can you give me a "biblical model" anywhere in scripture for sur names? Chapter and verse?

 

[ScottA]

Can you give me a "biblical model" anywhere in scripture for sur names? Chapter and verse?

No need, I am not talking about sur names. I am referring to taking the name of Christ in our marriage to Him as our husband, and doing the same in our own marriages...because the scriptures use our marriages as example...and we can do the same as an example for others.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Can you give me a "biblical model" anywhere in scripture for sur names? Chapter and verse?

No need, I am not talking about sur names. I am referring to taking the name of Christ in our marriage to Him as our husband, and doing the same in our own marriages...because the scriptures use our marriages as example...and we can do the same as an example for others.

This has been the whole premise, so I think there is a need. A cultural norm can't be fit into a biblical mandate if none exists.

 

[ScottA]

This has been the whole premise, so I think there is a need. A cultural norm can't be fit into a biblical mandate if none exists.

I have not, nor do I, have anything to say about sur names in particular.

But...where it may be true that biblical matters do not apply to cultural norms for the ungodly, that cannot be said of the child of God: All the world is His creation, and has a purpose under Heaven. Rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, only pertains to those whose only cares, are the cares of this world.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I have not, nor do I, have anything to say about sur names in particular.

But...where it may be true that biblical matters do not apply to cultural norms for the ungodly, that cannot be said of the child of God: All the world is His creation, and has a purpose under Heaven. Rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, only pertains to those whose only cares, are the cares of this world.

This whole conversation has been about surnames. Your biblical exegesis is severely lacking. Your ability to comprehend what I assume to be your native language is also. Therefore you have failed miserably to make your point, especially given your inability to provide concrete biblical mandates along with your stunning ignorance of other cultural traditions and mores.

 

[ScottA]

This whole conversation has been about surnames. Your biblical exegesis is severely lacking. Your ability to comprehend what I assume to be your native language is also. Therefore you have failed miserably to make your point, especially given your inability to provide concrete biblical mandates along with your stunning ignorance of other cultural traditions and mores.

Correction: This whole conversation has been about "hyphenated" names.

I have sited many examples like "a house divided", and explained my point in direct correlation with scripture.

Sorry you missed it...but you really should stop criticizing so, it's not very becoming.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Correction: This whole conversation has been about "hyphenated" names.

I have sited many examples like "a house divided", and explained my point in direct correlation with scripture.

Sorry you missed it...but you really should stop criticizing so, it's not very becoming.

And I have repeatedly told you that your connection is spurious at best and shows a distinctly American point of view as there are cultures where names are hyphenated to show the conjunction of two families. In my culture, the man's last name is his father's AND mother's. When he marries, the wife takes the paternal last name of the husband and retains the paternal last name of her father. The children then have two last names. My name is C.I. M-S. If I took my husband's last name (which I did not), I would then be C.I. M-R.

Last names (surnames, including hyphenated ones) are more of a cultural tradition. And...please...give me a biblical character's last name (other than son of... or daughter of...). In short, your premise is flimsy and has absolutely no biblical mandate. The examples you have pulled out of a hat do not apply to naming conventions. And...based on your earlier comments, I stand by my assessment of your comprehension skills.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

P.S. I am being far more polite to you in this forum than I would be IRL. If you can't handle the criticism that you have gotten from me and other posters, then perhaps you are not suited to participation in this sort of forum.

 

[mkgal1]

Correction: This whole conversation has been about "hyphenated" names.

Correction: This whole conversation has been about "hyphenated LAST names" (see the OT)---also known as "sur names" (which you now say you've never been addressing). None of your protests about not addressing sur names make sense (especially when you rebuked VG for not taking her husband's LAST name---how is that not "about sur names"?). That's a rhetorical question, because I sincerely don't want to engage in further conversation.

BTW.....if you're posts are attempts to "get your name out there" as a way to promote your book? You may want to consider that you may be doing more harm than good.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Based on his writing here, I think I'll pass on the book.

 

[LinkH]

The big issue I see here, is not following after the pattern of taking on the name of Christ (our Husband). If we take the name of Christ, we should also take the name of our earthly husband(s) which He (not I) used as a comparison.

While if I were a single young man looking for a wife in this culture not being willing to take her husband's last name as a potential red flag, I think you are overstating the case. If Christians should take their husband's names, do you have evidence for it from the Bible? The only example I can find is Herodius, and she wasn't a very good example. Taking her husband's name was a Grecco Roman custom (maybe Roman), not a Hebrew one. Roman woman had their father's name before marriage. If Tulius had two daughters, the daughters would be Tulia Major and Tulia Minor. The Bible doesn't call Mary Josepheius after she married Joseph.

 

[Dave-W]

While if I were a single young man looking for a wife in this culture not being willing to take her husband's last name as a potential red flag, I think you are overstating the case. If Christians should take their husband's names, do you have evidence for it from the Bible? The only example I can find is Herodius, and she wasn't a very good example. Taking her husband's name was a Grecco Roman custom (maybe Roman), not a Hebrew one. Roman woman had their father's name before marriage. If Tulius had two daughters, the daughters would be Tulia Major and Tulia Minor. The Bible doesn't call Mary Josepheius after she married Joseph.

Indeed. Sur names in Jewish society (perhaps a nod to the Greko-Roman occupiers) was usually used to refer to the home town. Mary from Magdala (Magdalene) and Judas from Karios (Iscariot) come immediately to mind.

The terms ben or bar (son of in Hebrew and Aramaic) or bat (daughter of) were not really sur names as we know them.

Example: Simon bar Jonah (Simon son of Jonah)

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

The feminist in me wants to know why men don't hyphenate their last names... I can't stand how central marriage is to our cultures. I hope one day we can find a way to just get rid of the whole outdated chauvinist institution.

 

[Dave-W]

The feminist in me wants to know why men don't hyphenate their last names...

I have seen many Brit males listed on television and movie credits with hyphenated last names.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I have seen many Brit males listed on television and movie credits with hyphenated last names.

I want to say "good" but really I mean "not good enough".

 

[Dave-W]

I can't stand how central marriage is to our cultures. I hope one day we can find a way to just get rid of the whole outdated chauvinist institution.

As a Catholic - you know that sex is restricted to within the covenant bonds of marriage.

So if you do away with marriage you do away with sex and childbirth. Or do you want to go entirely on in-vitro or other artificial form of conception?

 

[LinkH]

The feminist in me wants to know why men don't hyphenate their last names... I can't stand how central marriage is to our cultures. I hope one day we can find a way to just get rid of the whole outdated chauvinist institution.

Your information on the side says that you are Catholic. Why are you Catholic if you believe like that, and why do you believe like that if you are Catholic? Do you expect people to fornicate, or do you want everyone to join a monastery or convent for the last generation of the human race on earth. The pagans, atheists and Muslims aren't joining, so the Christians would be the ones who didn't reproduce.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Your information on the side says that you are Catholic. Why are you Catholic if you believe like that, and why do you believe like that if you are Catholic? Do you expect people to fornicate, or do you want everyone to join a monastery or convent for the last generation of the human race on earth. The pagans, atheists and Muslims aren't joining, so the Christians would be the ones who didn't reproduce.

I guess I would prefer if more people would have civil unions rather than weddings. I view marriage as a cultural institution not so much a religious one. It was in fact the last "sacrament" for Catholicism and only became one in the twelfth century, right about the time hereditary titles became a central facet to the feudal landscape... Evidently marriage consists in protecting the property rights of men and their progeny (another type of property) rather than women.

 

[ScottA]

And I have repeatedly told you that your connection is spurious at best and shows a distinctly American point of view as there are cultures where names are hyphenated to show the conjunction of two families. In my culture, the man's last name is his father's AND mother's. When he marries, the wife takes the paternal last name of the husband and retains the paternal last name of her father. The children then have two last names. My name is C.I. M-S. If I took my husband's last name (which I did not), I would then be C.I. M-R.

Last names (surnames, including hyphenated ones) are more of a cultural tradition. And...please...give me a biblical character's last name (other than son of... or daughter of...). In short, your premise is flimsy and has absolutely no biblical mandate. The examples you have pulled out of a hat do not apply to naming conventions. And...based on your earlier comments, I stand by my assessment of your comprehension skills.

You keep referring to the traditions of men, while I keep referring to those called by His name in keeping with what is written. So be it.