Hyphenated last names

[ScottA]

That's not the same thing as taking a husband's last name. Is your last name the name of the God? Is 'Jesus' your last name? Was Jesus' last name 'Christian'?

If you don't want to pattern your life and your marriage after Christ, so be it. But this is the precedence that I have been speaking of and many of you do not know of it, nor to you live it, but when I have promoted it you have show hatred for me because I side with the ways that God has put forth:

Ephesians 5:31-33
31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

 

[ValleyGal]

Hm. That says "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife".... suggests he should be the one taking HER name!

 

[ScottA]

Hm. That says "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife".... suggests he should be the one taking HER name!

Indeed, Christ too was joined unto His Father (a male), making Him an equal representation of the femininity cast into all who are born of women.

But Christ is no queen, and yet He has been given the name above all names, of which we bear...or we do not enter in to the marriage supper.

Likewise, if we have seen God doing such, we would do well to follow in the pattern of demonstrating the mystery.

 

[ValleyGal]

*sigh* You're just not getting it. Oh well. Believe as you will, but don't go around saying that we are not following God's ways just because we believe differently than you do.

 

[ScottA]

*sigh* You're just not getting it. Oh well. Believe as you will, but don't go around saying that we are not following God's ways just because we believe differently than you do.

What I do get, is that you continue to defend the traditions of the day and of people, over what is written of God's ways regarding names and marriage. On the contrary, the "great mystery" [of marriage] has obviously eluded you.

 

[Dave-W]

That says "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife".... suggests he should be the one taking HER name!

Actually it says nothing about names one way or the other.

 

[Dave-W]

over what is written of God's ways regarding names and marriages

God's word says NOTHING about names in relationship to marriages.

 

[ValleyGal]

Actually it says nothing about names one way or the other.

I know that, but it leans more to (the idea of) him joining her family than it does to her taking his name. Iow, both ideas are not there, but if anything it would be him to her rather her to him.

 

[Dave-W]

I know that, but it leans more to (the idea of) him joining her family than it does to her taking his name. Iow, both ideas are not there, but if anything it would be him to her rather her to him.

In the first century in the more rural areas of Judea and the Gallil, the marriage customs were like this: (and take from it what you will)

Somewhere between ages 5-9 the parents would get together with other parents and arrange a marriage between their children. (either child had right of refusal) When the male got to about age 12, a ketuba or marriage contract would be drawn up. It included a lot of information (google it) and if every thing was agreeable, it was signed by the couple and both sets of parents. They (the ketubas) were often quite beautiful. At this point the couple were betrothed which was legally married (but unconsummated) and needed a legal divorce to break up.

After signing, the young man would start to build a house for his future family under the direction of his father. It was often a new wing off of his family's dwelling, and that usually took about a year. When dad deemed the structure was complete he would tell the boy to go get his bride. He would ride a white horse (if available) to get her and then carry her on the horse back to the new house. They would consummate the marriage and then party for several days. So she went to live with him and his family.

 

[ValleyGal]

In the first century in the more rural areas of Judea and the Gallil, the marriage customs were like this: (and take from it what you will)

Somewhere between ages 5-9 the parents would get together with other parents and arrange a marriage between their children. (either child had right of refusal) When the male got to about age 12, a ketuba or marriage contract would be drawn up. It included a lot of information (google it) and if every thing was agreeable, it was signed by the couple and both sets of parents. They (the ketubas) were often quite beautiful. At this point the couple were betrothed which was legally married (but unconsummated) and needed a legal divorce to break up.

After signing, the young man would start to build a house for his future family under the direction of his father. It was often a new wing off of his family's dwelling, and that usually took about a year. When dad deemed the structure was complete he would tell the boy to go get his bride. He would ride a white horse (if available) to get her and then carry her on the horse back to the new house. They would consummate the marriage and then party for several days. So she went to live with him and his family.

I have heard this before (years ago I studied the subject quite extensively - in the OT, they would seal the marriage contract with both fathers walking the blood path of a slain goat and bird, iirc). Again, very cultural because the command is for the man to leave his father and mother and join to his wife. He's not really leaving if he's just building on to his father's house. However, the command goes both ways, for the husband and the wife.

I guess for some, it's hard to tease apart what is cultural versus what is actually biblical.

 

[ScottA]

God's word says NOTHING about names in relationship to marriages.

"Relationship" being the key word.

Apparently, it is not obvious that the "marriage" "relationship" we have as "followers" of "Christ" includes coming under His "Name" above every "name", and is as comparable in our own "marriage" tradition, as "Christ" is to the "church." Nevertheless, the "relationship" of "names" and "marriage" is there...not because I say so, but because He says so.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

What I do get, is that you continue to defend the traditions of the day and of people, over what is written of God's ways regarding names and marriage. On the contrary, the "great mystery" [of marriage] has obviously eluded you.

Many of us here have been married a very long time...and we haven't got it? Give up dude...your argument is totally out to lunch.

 

[ScottA]

Many of us here have been married a very long time...and we haven't got it? Give up dude...your argument is totally out to lunch.

Yes, I have said my piece, and I am giving up on you and those who continue and do not tear down your idols.

 

[Dave-W]

Nevertheless, the "relationship" of "names" and "marriage" is there...not because I say so, but because He says so.

IF He really "says so," - give us chapter and verse where that is listed.

 

[ScottA]

IF He really "says so," - give us chapter and verse where that is listed.

No. I gave references to the scriptures in context. Do your own research.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Yes, I have said my piece, and I am giving up on you and those who continue and do not tear down your idols.

Ok...I'll admit...I idolize my car. Its red, its fast, and I probably spend more time with it than my husband.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

But God gave Israelites law.

Law was given long before Israel. The first lawbreaker was Adam.

 

[LinkH]

If you don't want to pattern your life and your marriage after Christ, so be it. But this is the precedence that I have been speaking of and many of you do not know of it, nor to you live it, but when I have promoted it you have show hatred for me because I side with the ways that God has put forth:

Ephesians 5:31-33
31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Are you serious in this post, or are you just trolling? My wife has my last name, btw. A wife taking a husband's last name isn't a Biblical command. I believe that in our cultural context, it is in line with some other Biblical practices, for example counting lineages by the male line. But the whole thing-- last names, changing last names, etc. is a European practice. I used to live in Indonesia. Some Indonesians only have one name and don't even have a last name.

The only woman I can think of in scripture whose name probably changed was Herodias, who apparently took on Herod's name, her illegal husband from an incestuous second marriage. Prior to that she probably would have been something like Philippias. That was Grecco-Roman culture. She was not a righteous example to emulate, the woman who asked for John the Baptist's head on a platter. Notice her first name changed. The scripture doesn't say she had a last name.

 

[ScottA]

Are you serious in this post, or are you just trolling? My wife has my last name, btw. A wife taking a husband's last name isn't a Biblical command. I believe that in our cultural context, it is in line with some other Biblical practices, for example counting lineages by the male line. But the whole thing-- last names, changing last names, etc. is a European practice. I used to live in Indonesia. Some Indonesians only have one name and don't even have a last name.

The only woman I can think of in scripture whose name probably changed was Herodias, who apparently took on Herod's name, her illegal husband from an incestuous second marriage. Prior to that she probably would have been something like Philippias. That was Grecco-Roman culture. She was not a righteous example to emulate, the woman who asked for John the Baptist's head on a platter. Notice her first name changed. The scripture doesn't say she had a last name.

The cultures of history throughout the world do not take precedence over God's word. And although there is no one verse that gives us the bottomline for wives to take their husband's last name, the collective sum of what God has unveiled is clear: the "mysterey" of marriage is that it is a pattern of our relationship with Christ. God also refers to His people as "those called by His name." And, if we are in Christ, if He is our Lord...we take His name: Christian.

With every indication, we should not dream of hyphenating our own name as somehow divided from Christ. He has made the whole matter of marriage, an example.

If you don't see it clearly, or don't want to take your lead from Him...don't. But that does not mean that He has not reveal it.

 

[LinkH]

The cultures of history throughout the world do not take precedence over God's word. And although there is no one verse that gives us the bottomline for wives to take their husband's last name, the collective sum of what God has unveiled is clear: the "mysterey" of marriage is that it is a pattern of our relationship with Christ. God also refers to His people as "those called by His name." And, if we are in Christ, if He is our Lord...we take His name: Christian.

With every indication, we should not dream of hyphenating our own name as somehow divided from Christ. He has made the whole matter of marriage, an example.

That last line doesn't make sense. Did you change your last name to 'Christ', and consider it a sin to have 'Christ' plus something else with a hyphen in between as your last name? Your last initial is 'A'. If you did not change your last name to Adonai, I don't see how you could have changed your last name when you because a Christian.

I think this hyphenating thing is generally not a good thing to do in our culture. I don't see a direct command about it, though. But a wife accepting a man's last name goes along with a good cultural practice. It can signal submission and a number of other good things. The wife accepts her identity as her husband's helper and a part of his family. But you are taking a huge leap to use 'called by my name' to treat a woman changing her last name as mandatory. It doesn't make sense when you see that godly Biblical women did not actually change their names to their husbands', and that the Bible doesn't command it.

I still see it as a red flag if a man wants to marry a woman who won't change her name if this occurs in English or American culture or some other European cultures. In countries where people don't have last names or don't change them, I don't see it as a red flag.

If you don't see it clearly, or don't want to take your lead from Him...don't. But that does not mean that He has not reveal it.

Show us where he has revealed it in the Bible, or tell us about your visionary or prophetic experiences.