Hypersexuality

Here's what you do, when you feel the temptations and lust coming on, find the most Solid lead pipe you can and pummel yourself with it.


lol



I have no idea what advice I could tell you, other than that in the past I have had sex outside of marriage, but so far this year, I have managed to stay obedient, but this is rough stuff. I have had to completely avoid some places, (like bars) completely.

But recently the temptations are Stronger than ever and I find Sin knocking at the door once again.

Well... lets look outside the box.
Apart from sexual thoughts, is your mind pure? are you dweling on good pure thoughts through the day?
our thoughts play a huge part in everything we do, more than we think.
I think inpurity in any situation can make it hard for us in sexual situations.
Like.... inpure thoughts like "Oh my goodness! my sister is such a idiot I want to hit her!" this is an inpure thought, though it has nothing to do with sex at all, it breaks down my selfcontrol. and then when I need selfcontrol in other areas I've already tought myself not to listen to the holy spirit when it's trying to help me be strong.

Eh.... my thoughts anyway...

Horror movies are really bad too I have heard, its like the same spirit of lust, blood lust, sexual lust, same thing, makes it hard to tell youreself "....Just get up, and walk away..."

Yes it lies on your perception of what it is and how you understand God's intention for it. These need to change in order for sexual activity to stop.

There is truth in that, "If you cannot not have sex with someone, you don't really love them." But it lies in the perception as to be able to see that this is true.

Are those in this thread that are posting things like "I think sex is okay before marriage if consentual and safe" calling themselves Christians???

Sexual purity is definitely one of the most difficult sins most of us have to deal with, but does that mean we should not give it our best shot and avoid thinking, believing, and saying things like I mentioned above? We need to be praying daily for the strength and courage to confront and defeat the issue.

I am 21 years old and a guy... that said, of course I have issues trying to not think lustful thoughts, let alone act on them... As well as noting the fact that I'm in a 4 1/2 year relationship with my girlfriend whom I think is one of the most sexually stimulating things that I have ever seen. Thank God she's conservative and not that in to sex right now, so when I say things like I want to stop having sex, she understands and helps me to stand by it.

This is the most difficult thing I've ever confronted. To not think lustfully is hard. I don't want to be a practical atheist. I want to change. Is it hard, oh yeah. Is it possible, not very.

Don't easily give in to this world and the liberalism that has overwhelmed our morals and sense of obligation to truly be Christian. Read what God has said about these issues and strive for His standards, not this world's.

What really helps me is downloading Christian rap as opposed to my explicit Bay Area Rap. There are some good Christian artists out there which Rap against the things that most rappers promote, and sound just as sick doing it. The lack of sexual reference in these songs helps, and the occasional Bible verse or mention of God and Jesus help push out random thoughts of lust throughout my day.

I also try to download non-explicit music if I do download mainstream rap and hip hop. I love the beats and sick flows, but it's not worth it.

Also, try not watching as many reality tv shows or sexualy oriented movies.

I wish you the best and hope you can find the heart for true change. Sex is more than lust.

-Steven

I think implying that anyone that does not believe premarital sex is a sin, is also not a Christian is rude and absolutley crossing the line. Simply because a person may have differing opinion on sexual sins, baptizing, abortion, homosexuality, women pastors etc etc etc, does NOT meant they are not a christian. Because if EVERYONE had to believe exactly like you do to be a Christian, you would be the only christian. EVERYone has their own personal thoughts and opinions, as well as different interpretations of the bible.

tessas212 said:

I think implying that anyone that does not believe premarital sex is a sin, is also not a Christian is rude and absolutley crossing the line. Simply because a person may have differing opinion on sexual sins, baptizing, abortion, homosexuality, women pastors etc etc etc, does NOT meant they are not a christian. Because if EVERYONE had to believe exactly like you do to be a Christian, you would be the only christian. EVERYone has their own personal thoughts and opinions, as well as different interpretations of the bible.

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I think You're right in saying that, no one can say another is or isn't a christian but God himself.
But I still believe God calls us to be pure minded.
and has simply asked us to wait untill we're commited before we give ourself so fully away to someone.

tessas212 said:

I think implying that anyone that does not believe premarital sex is a sin, is also not a Christian is rude and absolutley crossing the line. Simply because a person may have differing opinion on sexual sins, baptizing, abortion, homosexuality, women pastors etc etc etc, does NOT meant they are not a christian. Because if EVERYONE had to believe exactly like you do to be a Christian, you would be the only christian. EVERYone has their own personal thoughts and opinions, as well as different interpretations of the bible.

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So is it okay for Christians to subscribe to Christianity as if it were a buffet? I'll follow God's commandment here and here, but here ... no way, I don't want to believe the Bible on this topic because I like this sin too much. God's word is God's word. Do you choose which commandments you want to follow and dismiss the rest?

^The Bible is largely interpretation. Like, it never explicitly says "Abortion is wrong," but we just know that God values life, and we quote verses about His creation of that life. It also never says "Don't have sex before marriage," in fact, in Biblical times, if you had sex, you were married. That's another thing we derive from various verses. It's all in the interpretation.

I'm not saying that pre-marital sex is okay. I'm just saying that we all develop our own beliefs based on the way we interpret the Bible. Just because someone doesn't follow your values doesn't mean they're not a Christian.

tessas212 said:

I think implying that anyone that does not believe premarital sex is a sin, is also not a Christian is rude and absolutley crossing the line. Simply because a person may have differing opinion on sexual sins, baptizing, abortion, homosexuality, women pastors etc etc etc, does NOT meant they are not a christian. Because if EVERYONE had to believe exactly like you do to be a Christian, you would be the only christian. EVERYone has their own personal thoughts and opinions, as well as different interpretations of the bible.

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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that about the OP, I was simply asking "How can one claim belief in God and decide that they're going to pick and choose which parts of God's word they would like to believe, when it is so clearly written in God's word?" I was truly asking that question, not implying she is not a Christian. However, the belief that going against God's word and using your own instead is not a Christian value.

These two pieces of scripture explain what I am talking about. What God commands is not up for selfish interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (New International Version)

20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 3:16 (New International Version)

16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.




I was just surprised at the responses in this thread at how individuals want to twist God's word for their own selfish reasons... i.e. like telling themselves and others that premarital sex is not a sin, when scripture clearly begs to differ.

2 Corinthians 11:2 (New International Version)

2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 (New International Version)


8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Hebrews 13:4 (New International Version)


4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)


9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

1 Corinthians 6:18 (New International Version)


18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

Ephesians 5:3 (New International Version)


3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 (New International Version)


3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

Revelation 21:8 (New International Version)

8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

-Steven

Define "sexually immoral"

As I said before, in Biblical times, when you had sex, you were married. If we take that piece of information, it might be argued that if you're having sex with someone you're planning on marrying, then in God's eyes, you are already married.

See, here's the thing. I do believe that sex before marriage is wrong. But when I lie, or cheat, or gossip, I know automatically that I have done something wrong. I know I am being immoral. I'd say that's the Holy Spirit letting me know. But when I have sex with my boyfriend, who I love like you wouldn't believe, I don't feel that. I struggle with this, because I honestly can't see what is wrong with it. That's why I'm asking you to define "sexually immoral" - my soul is not convicted by sex with the love of my life in the way it is by other things, so I can't say for sure that I know it's counted.

SiyoNqoba said:

Define "sexually immoral"

As I said before, in Biblical times, when you had sex, you were married. If we take that piece of information, it might be argued that if you're having sex with someone you're planning on marrying, then in God's eyes, you are already married.

See, here's the thing. I do believe that sex before marriage is wrong. But when I lie, or cheat, or gossip, I know automatically that I have done something wrong. I know I am being immoral. I'd say that's the Holy Spirit letting me know. But when I have sex with my boyfriend, who I love like you wouldn't believe, I don't feel that. I struggle with this, because I honestly can't see what is wrong with it. That's why I'm asking you to define "sexually immoral" - my soul is not convicted by sex with the love of my life in the way it is by other things, so I can't say for sure that I know it's counted.

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Don't mix the two separate scenarios you are mentioning above. The act of having sex did not make you married. However, those that were married, of course were having sex.

Please understand I am not trying to be rude. I am trying to ask serious questions for all of our sake. Please quote scripture to support your claim that having sex in Biblical times meant you were married. Instead of interpreting what you "believe" is written without citation instead of interpreting and citing "what is written." I don't mean to be pushy, I am just asking for you to back up your claim with scripture.

I found this on gotquestions dot org (it won't let me post the link because I have less than 50 posts )

1 Corinthians 7:2 (NIV)
2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.

If sexual intercourse causes a couple to become married, it could not be considered immoral, as the couple would be considered married the moment they engaged in sexual intercourse.

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And to quote you:

I do believe that sex before marriage is wrong.

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and then again quoting you :

I struggle with this, because I honestly can't see what is wrong with it.

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In the nicest way I can ask it, I ask you to truly think about what you are saying. You believe premarital sex is wrong, but you don't know why... And you say that in your life when you do something wrong, the Holy Spirit lets you know. So you believe sex is wrong (Holy Spirit letting you know?) but you do not know why it is wrong.

Do you believe God wanted you to have sex before commiting to marriage with the love of your life? You've already answered "no" above. Or honestly, may it have to do with the fact that you do not want to believe it because you love sex?

As for what defines sexual immorality and marriage, I posted as many quotes from scripture that I could find in my previous post. I guess the following is what scripture can most arguably be meant to define as marriage. I'm sure everyone can argue to some degree about what they "believe" marriage and sexual immorality to be, but scripture will not equally promote the theories deriving from everyone. I "belive" scripture can without a doubt support the following more than other definitions.

From: gotquestions dot org (it won't let me post the link because I have less than 50 posts )

So, what constitutes marriage in God’s eyes? It would seem that the following principles should be followed. (1) As long as the requirements are reasonable and not against the Bible, a couple should seek whatever formal governmental recognition that is available. (2) A couple should follow whatever cultural and familial practices are typically employed to recognize a couple as “officially married.” (3) If possible, a couple should consummate the marriage, fulfilling the physical aspect of the “one flesh” principle.

What if one or more of these principles are not fulfilled? Is such a couple still considered married in God’s eyes? Ultimately, that is between the couple and God. God knows our hearts ( 1 John 3:20 whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything). God knows the difference between a true marriage covenant and an attempt to explain away, or justify, sexual immorality.

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^That's the brief summary, more in detail description with evidence is posted in their more in-depth look at the definitions.

-Steven

medicSTi said:

Please quote scripture to support your claim that having sex in Biblical times meant you were married. Instead of interpreting what you "believe" is written without citation instead of interpreting and citing "what is written." I don't mean to be pushy, I am just asking for you to back up your claim with scripture.

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I don't have a verse to back that up. It doesn't come from my knowledge of the Bible, but from my knowledge of history. Sex was what made you married.

medicSTi said:

In the nicest way I can ask it, I ask you to truly think about what you are saying. You believe premarital sex is wrong, but you don't know why... And you say that in your life when you do something wrong, the Holy Spirit lets you know. So you believe sex is wrong (Holy Spirit letting you know?) but you do not know why it is wrong.

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Yes, exactly. I don't know why it is wrong. I have forgotten. I did as a kid, a virgin, when I thought I knew everything, but now I don't.

Thank you very much for the link, and the quotes from it. I will read it further, because I think it will help me. But here's the thing I am struggling with in the Bible, and which what you quoted still doesn't explain: There is no distinct definition of sexual immorality. Yes, it says that a man should be for his wife, and a woman for her husband all over the Bible. But then there's the question, if I marry my current boyfriend, does that mean what we've done wasn't wrong? We'll still have had sex with no body but each other.

I'm not trying to argue that pre-marital sex is okay. I'm just sharing my personal struggles with the matter, and trying to illustrate that there can be other interpretations of such things, and that you can't judge someone just because they don't adhere to your interpretation.

Medic, interpreting and thinking about the context of Bible verses is not a non-Christian attitude. God gave us brains for a reason, the reason not being so we could let them rot and fall into disuse. And as a married man, I have absolutely no motivation to even be tempted to "re-interpret the Bible to justify my own actions", so take that into consideration as you read on.

All of your quoted verses come from the NIV. In other translations, you'll notice that "sexual immorality" is replaced with "fornication", which of course is, in today's English language, defined to mean "premarital sex". The word fornication comes from "fornix", a greek slang term for "porneia" that's literally translated to mean "arch", referring to the archway present at brothels back in the days that the term was used. "Porneia" was a catch-all for serious sexual offenses including adultery (Exodus 20:14), incest (Leviticus 18:6-18), bestiality (Leviticus 18:23), male homosexuality, with penetration (Leviticus 18:22), male and female homosexuality in general (Romans 1:26-27), and prostitution (Ezekiel 16:41), and temple prostitution.

Somewhere between the original English translation of "Porneia" and "Fornication" and now, the word was redefined as meaning "any sex outside of marriage". But that's not what the word meant when the words were originally written.

What does it mean for general sex between two unmarried people? Absolutely nothing, one way or the other. It's as commented on as whether or not we should murder a Martian.

Now, does that mean that we can just sleep around? Not as far as I'm concerned. That's prostitution minus the money. But monogamous sex between a couple who has been exclusive and committed without getting legally married, is not "porneia".

Meaning, whether it's right or wrong for you personally, is between you and God. Pray and discern and meditate on it. Just know that it's not something the scriptures ever originally touched on.

medicSTi said:

So is it okay for Christians to subscribe to Christianity as if it were a buffet? I'll follow God's commandment here and here, but here ... no way, I don't want to believe the Bible on this topic because I like this sin too much. God's word is God's word. Do you choose which commandments you want to follow and dismiss the rest?

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It is all about interpretation. It isn't "picking and choosing"(though we ALL do this), but rather just what someone truly may believe based upon their interpretation of the bible.

tessas212 said:

It is all about interpretation. It isn't "picking and choosing"(though we ALL do this), but rather just what someone truly may believe based upon their interpretation of the bible.

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So if someone believes that Bible truth is all relative than that is okay and not at all "picking and choosing"...

SiyoNqoba said:

I don't have a verse to back that up. It doesn't come from my knowledge of the Bible, but from my knowledge of history. Sex was what made you married.



Yes, exactly. I don't know why it is wrong. I have forgotten. I did as a kid, a virgin, when I thought I knew everything, but now I don't.

Thank you very much for the link, and the quotes from it. I will read it further, because I think it will help me. But here's the thing I am struggling with in the Bible, and which what you quoted still doesn't explain: There is no distinct definition of sexual immorality. Yes, it says that a man should be for his wife, and a woman for her husband all over the Bible. But then there's the question, if I marry my current boyfriend, does that mean what we've done wasn't wrong? We'll still have had sex with no body but each other.

I'm not trying to argue that pre-marital sex is okay. I'm just sharing my personal struggles with the matter, and trying to illustrate that there can be other interpretations of such things, and that you can't judge someone just because they don't adhere to your interpretation.

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Okay, just historically back it up. Quote a text from a civilization which had the ritual of sex wed a couple. I just don't think that holds. But, please prove me wrong, I'd like to know if Biblical Christian/Jewsih/etc. civilizations had sex to get married.

There are definitions in the Bible of Sexual Immorality, but I can't find any that specifically in text say, "pre-marital sex is immoral." The Bible illudes to it. The Bible does clearly say things like, "sex with your sister is immoral, sex with your neighbor's wife is immoral, sex with you dad is immoral, sex with animals is immoral, etc."

I share your same struggle and I fail at it as well. My girlfriend and I have been dating for 4 1/2 years so far. Do we have sex, yes. Do I know it's a sin EVEN though I plan on marrying her? Yes. I have not made the commitment of marriage to her or to God, therefore I am not a husband and she is not my wife. I am having sex with my girlfriend and something crazy could happen that might ruin us and break us up before we get married, at which point it will be obvious that I have committed adultery with another man's wife. We are not married so sex is a sin because she could end up marrying someone else. Likely, not really. She's going to be my wife, but right now she is not.

I'm not judging anyone. I am debating about what the Bible says and not a single person in this thread has offered scripture to defend their point of view as I have. I ask that. Just back up your p.o.v. please, if it can't be substanciated, then what's the basis of your argument, right?

(I really do like how you are having this conversation with me, I think it helps both of us to understand each other, and deals with real issues )

-Steven

tessas212 said:

It is all about interpretation. It isn't "picking and choosing"(though we ALL do this), but rather just what someone truly may believe based upon their interpretation of the bible.

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Please confront scripture and not me. If you are going to argue that point, please back it up Once again, as in post #30 I give you scripture on the matter of personal interpretation:

2 Peter 1:20-21 (New International Version)

20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 3:16 (New International Version)

16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

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-Steven

ImperialPhantom said:

Medic, interpreting and thinking about the context of Bible verses is not a non-Christian attitude. God gave us brains for a reason, the reason not being so we could let them rot and fall into disuse. And as a married man, I have absolutely no motivation to even be tempted to "re-interpret the Bible to justify my own actions", so take that into consideration as you read on.

All of your quoted verses come from the NIV. In other translations, you'll notice that "sexual immorality" is replaced with "fornication", which of course is, in today's English language, defined to mean "premarital sex". The word fornication comes from "fornix", a greek slang term for "porneia" that's literally translated to mean "arch", referring to the archway present at brothels back in the days that the term was used. "Porneia" was a catch-all for serious sexual offenses including adultery (Exodus 20:14), incest (Leviticus 18:6-18), bestiality (Leviticus 18:23), male homosexuality, with penetration (Leviticus 18:22), male and female homosexuality in general (Romans 1:26-27), and prostitution (Ezekiel 16:41), and temple prostitution.

Somewhere between the original English translation of "Porneia" and "Fornication" and now, the word was redefined as meaning "any sex outside of marriage". But that's not what the word meant when the words were originally written.

What does it mean for general sex between two unmarried people? Absolutely nothing, one way or the other. It's as commented on as whether or not we should murder a Martian.

Now, does that mean that we can just sleep around? Not as far as I'm concerned. That's prostitution minus the money. But monogamous sex between a couple who has been exclusive and committed without getting legally married, is not "porneia".

Meaning, whether it's right or wrong for you personally, is between you and God. Pray and discern and meditate on it. Just know that it's not something the scriptures ever originally touched on.

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Thanks, I really appreciate your explanation of the difference in word choice between Bible Versions and how they changed through the ages

So, fornification is defined as premarital sex now, but wasn't when traced back to the very origins in ancient text??

But I think it is important to note that the translations are updated with current language to reflect true understanding in our current culture as relative to the original meanings in the original culture, are they not? Has language not changed? Has culture not changed? Have scholars reworded the Bible without noting what the true meaning was at the time each translation was used on a scholarly level?

I'm not so worried about "legal" marriage as much as marriage at the least being committing to each other before God as a life long comitment. Some countries may not have government to wed, so they may use tribes, or family tradition, etc. Jesus did describe a wedding banquet in a parable, which seems conclusive enough to demonstrate legal weddings as being substantial before God, do you not agree?

Matthew 22

The Parable of the Wedding Banquet

1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

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I just think it is amazing that Christians can say that they believe God does not rule on premarital sex in the Bible. Just show me any where in the Bible, where God's character promotes or excludes premarital sex fom being of a sinful nature. Present me with scripture that shows God explaining sex as for anyone other than a married couple.

In a text that deals with nearly every major thing we may deal with in life, would God leave out sex before marriage or was it so unimportant that he left it from the Bible???

-Steven

medicSTi said:

Thanks, I really appreciate your explanation of the difference in word choice between Bible Versions and how they changed through the ages

So, fornification is defined as premarital sex now, but wasn't when traced back to the very origins in ancient text??

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Correct. It picked up the definition sometime after the Bible was translated into English.

But I think it is important to note that the translations are updated with current language to reflect true understanding in our current culture as relative to the original meanings in the original culture, are they not? Has language not changed? Has culture not changed? Have scholars reworded the Bible without noting what the true meaning was at the time each translation was used on a scholarly level?

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That's why, in my opinion, certain English translations such as the NIV, changed it from "fornication" to "sexual immorality" - because the latter is a more accurate translation of "porneia". Sexual immorality, like porneia, is more of a 'catch-all' term. That said, languages aren't perfect, and translations aren't perfect and are often met with language barriers, English translations especially. Take for example, when Jesus asks Peter 3 times if he loves Him, in John 21:15-17. In English, we see the word "love" used. But going back to the Greek, the verses take on an entirely new meaning.

John Chapter 21, Verses 15 to 17: “So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonah, AGAPE thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I PHILEO thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonah, AGAPE thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I PHILEOthee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonah, PHILEO thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, PHILEO thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I PHILEO thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.”

With regards to rewording the Bible without noting the original meaning, it has happened - remember that for thousands of years, the church controlled society, and oftentimes had an agenda that wasn't necessarily all benevolent. I'll use another example:

Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities

In Hebrew, it read like so:

Isaiah 53:5 But he was BOUND for our transgressions. He was BOUND for our iniquities

But the change was made thousands of years later, to put it in line with how Jesus died.

I'm not so worried about "legal" marriage as much as marriage at the least being committing to each other before God as a life long comitment. Some countries may not have government to wed, so they may use tribes, or family tradition, etc. Jesus did describe a wedding banquet in a parable, which seems conclusive enough to demonstrate legal weddings as being substantial before God, do you not agree?

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That misses the point of the parable. Marriage was definitely a huge cultural deal even then, but it still doesn't say anything about premarital sex, and the parable was used to explain the narrowness of the road to heaven, as well as the persecution and difficulties that would be endured by Christ's servants and disciples.

I just think it is amazing that Christians can say that they believe God does not rule on premarital sex in the Bible. Just show me any where in the Bible, where God's character promotes or excludes premarital sex fom being of a sinful nature. Present me with scripture that shows God explaining sex as for anyone other than a married couple.

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You might think it's "amazing", but it really is worth it to study, question and discern. Does God not welcome questions? Is God afraid of having to give an answer rather than be blindly followed? The ban on all premarital sex is a long-standing church and cultural belief, so much so that the nonexistence of the ban in the Bible is obviously very tough to swallow, which explains knee-jerk reactions at the counterpoints on this topic, but it is what it is. Like I said, the Bible doesn't touch on general premarital sex, so there is no scripture for or against it. There's also no scripture on smoking cigarettes, voting Democrat, owning guns, or paying higher taxes either (not counting Matthew 22:21), but that doesn't make any of those necessarily right or wrong.

In a text that deals with nearly every major thing we may deal with in life, would God leave out sex before marriage or was it so unimportant that he left it from the Bible???

-Steven

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That would appear to be the case, yes.

...

John Chapter 21, Verses 15 to 17: “So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonah, AGAPE thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I PHILEO thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonah, AGAPE thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I PHILEOthee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonah, PHILEO thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, PHILEO thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I PHILEO thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.”

....

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That is interesting. I appreciate your knowledge on the subject. So how do you decide which you believe without knowing the original language of the scriptures?

That misses the point of the parable. Marriage was definitely a huge cultural deal even then, but it still doesn't say anything about premarital sex, and the parable was used to explain the narrowness of the road to heaven, as well as the persecution and difficulties that would be endured by Christ's servants and disciples.

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The reason I was quoting the parable was to note an acceptable recognition of marriage, not pre-marital anything. Simply noting that Jesus wasn't in a bedroom watching a couple "get married" by having sex.

You might think it's "amazing", but it really is worth it to study, question and discern. Does God not welcome questions? Is God afraid of having to give an answer rather than be blindly followed? The ban on all premarital sex is a long-standing church and cultural belief, so much so that the nonexistence of the ban in the Bible is obviously very tough to swallow, which explains knee-jerk reactions at the counterpoints on this topic, but it is what it is. Like I said, the Bible doesn't touch on general premarital sex, so there is no scripture for or against it. There's also no scripture on smoking cigarettes, voting Democrat, owning guns, or paying higher taxes either (not counting Matthew 22:21), but that doesn't make any of those necessarily right or wrong.

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It really is worthy of study. If there are those out there following God who believe that premarital sex is not a sin or spoken about in the Bible, I want to know what they're thinking and where their evidence is. It truly saddens me.

Of course we can all ask God to help us understand the Bible and His will. Do you truly feel that the Holy Spirit and God have led you to believe that God has no position on the issue of premarital sex? Do you believe that if someone went to Jesus during his ministry and asked, "Teacher, is it righteous to have sex with my girlfriend?" Jesus would have answered nothing, yes, or no? If you believe his answer would be nothing or that it would be yes it is okay, what aspect of God's character leads you to this conclusion?

Luke 20:21 (New International Version)

21So the spies questioned him: "Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth.

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I'd just like to add this:

Job 31 (New International Version)

1 I made a covenant with my eyes
not to look lustfully at a girl.

9 If my heart has been enticed by a woman,
or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door,

10 then may my wife grind another man's grain,
and may other men sleep with her.

11 For that would have been shameful,
a sin to be judged.

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Numbers 15:39 (New International Version)

39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the LORD, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by going after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.

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...and not prostitute yourselves by going after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes...

Proverbs 6 (New International Version)

Warnings Against Folly

24 keeping you from the immoral woman,
from the smooth tongue of the wayward wife.

25 Do not lust in your heart after her beauty
or let her captivate you with her eyes,

26 for the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread,
and the adulteress preys upon your very life.

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I see that much differently, these pieces of scripture above are very specific. I respectfully think that your argument has no basis. The Bible does contain scripture with reference and regards to sexual immorality including premarital sex. "Do not lust in your heart after her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes" ... does that mean that because it was not written, "Do not lust in your actions by having sex" that it is not implied? Does it say, go ahead and have sex with a woman, just don't look at her and think lustfully???

Job made a covenant with his eyes because he knew that looking at someone lustfully was the same as committing adultery with them in God's eyes. Job knew that one could commit adultery with the lustful thoughts one can think in his heart alone. He was not asking about lustfully thinking about his wife, but other women. Does that mean that only married men commit sin by thinking lustfully of women? And if one can commit sin with their eyes, is the act of sex omitted from committing "adultery"?

What is adultery?

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)

28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

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So looking at a women lustfully is committing adultery. And is adultery not an act of sexual immorality? Is it not God's will that you should avoid sexual immorality? Is sexual immorality not a sin?

So looking lustfully and surely acting out those thoughts (sex) is adultery. Therefore premarital sex is clearly adultery and of course a sin.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 (New International Version)

3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

Galatians 5:19 (New International Version)

19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

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Is not God eternal? Is God not yesterday, today, and tomorrow? Does God not know exactly how your life is written and whom you will or will not married? Therefore in God's eyes do you not have a wife if he knows your future and in it you are married?

If that were the case, does not God see you as married from the moment he creates you? Does that not mean that if you have sex with someone that is not your wife, when in His eyes you have a wife, you have not committed adultery? For example, a single man/woman having sex with someone prior to being in a marriage??? Is that not addressing premarital sex?

-Steven