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Hyper Calvinism and the Gospel/Missions.

stenerson

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We proclaim the free grace of God in Christ Jesus the Lord but we do not beg, coerce, or try to win an emotional profession from the sinner. Unlike the Arminian we are not out to get people saved. A true Calvinist doesn't try to get people saved we simply preach the truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus the Lord and leave the rest to God.

Of course we try. We put effort, thought, prayer and care with the hope that God will bring them to repentance. There's nothing anti-Calvinistic about that. Persuading, pleading, warning, arguing is all very Christian/New Testament.
It's the God ordained human means used by the Holy Spirit to bring life to whom He will.

In all honesty my heart breaks for those who do not believe and trust the Lord Jesus. I feel the weight of their souls on me every day.

Exactly, and that's why we warn, plead, argue, reason, urge that God commands them to repent and believe.

Yet I refuse, God giving me grace, to compromise His truth in order to appeal to lost sinners. I hold the glory of God, the grace of God and the power of the preaching of the Gospel of Christ in the Spirit far more worthy of uncompromising loyalty than to even for a moment consider compromise for the sake of winning souls.

There's no need to compromise.
 
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stenerson

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What does warning, pleading, arguing, reasoning and urging do if they are predestined to damnation? :confused:

That is the carnal logic and reasoning that the world usually uses concerning the doctrines of grace. Why even preach the gospel, why share it ? etc.
Which is the point of this thread. Muslims, Arminians and even Calvinist can read about the doctrines of grace and come to the wrong conclusions about evangelism.
 
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gord44

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That is the carnal logic and reasoning that the world usually uses concerning the doctrines of grace. Why even preach the gospel, why share it ? etc.
Which is the point of this thread. Muslims, Arminians and even Calvinist can read about the doctrines of grace and come to the wrong conclusions about evangelism.

I didn't mean to say 'why share it'. It's clearly in the Bible that a Christian should. I meant the need to 'warn, plead, argue, reason, urge that God commands them to repent and believe'. Seems all that is useless. Just share the gospel and move on without worry, since it is truly out of your hands.
 
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stenerson

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I didn't mean to say 'why share it'. It's clearly in the Bible that a Christian should.

So you don't believe that warning, pleading, beseeching, reasoning, arguing are clearly in the Bible?

Just share the gospel and move on without worry, since it is truly out of your hands.

So we share it stoically and without any passion, concern, love or sense of urgency? Like careless robots? I don't believe that's a scriptural way of "sharing."
 
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gord44

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So you don't believe that warning, pleading, beseeching, reasoning, arguing are clearly in the Bible?

I'll have to look. I have read the NT quite a few times but its been a while.

So we share it stoically and without any passion, concern, love or sense of urgency? Like careless robots? I don't believe that's a scriptural way of "sharing."

Not really like robots. I dunno. I suppose if one believes that the act of salvation is out of their hands, beyond sharing the gospel with someone, what is there to be gained with being overly emotional?

Either way friend, it's not worth arguing about. When I was a Calvinist I didn't care much for what happened to others after death. As long as I was ok, that's all I cared about. I never experienced the need to plead with others in regards to their salvation, even though I was friends with many non believers. Perhaps because in truth I didn't really believe it all anyways, so subconsciously I didn't feel any urgency.

Anyways it's been an interesting thread. My questions were genuine. I enjoy the conversation here. Not here to debate at all. :)
 
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Skala

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What does warning, pleading, arguing, reasoning and urging do if they are predestined to damnation? :confused:

I didn't mean to say 'why share it'. It's clearly in the Bible that a Christian should. I meant the need to 'warn, plead, argue, reason, urge that God commands them to repent and believe'. Seems all that is useless. Just share the gospel and move on without worry, since it is truly out of your hands.

What you must understand is that God uses means.

The elect won't be saved willy nilly without any reference to their hearing the gospel, and believing it. God has ordained not only the ends but also the means to those ends. He has put the gospel in place, and us Christians as tools in his hands to carry out His work.

He sends the gospel across the globe, through preachers and teachers, and visits the elect with the message of salvation. Through that message he quickens them and changes their hearts, effectively bringing them to salvation.

As far as the question about "why preach to the non-elect because it's all pointless?", tell me, do you know who the elect and non-elect are?

If we don't know who they are, then how do we apply the principle of your objection to our practiced evangelism?
 
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stenerson

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what is there to be gained with being overly emotional?

Earnestness, concern, love, effort in making good arguments etc.. That's not being overly emotional. I'm not suggesting we foam at the mouth or get hysterical.

Perhaps because in truth I didn't really believe it all anyways, so subconsciously I didn't feel any urgency.

Exactly.
 
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gord44

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What you must understand is that God uses means.

The elect won't be saved willy nilly without any reference to their hearing the gospel, and believing it. God has ordained not only the ends but also the means to those ends. He has put the gospel in place, and us Christians as tools in his hands to carry out His work.

He sends the gospel across the globe, through preachers and teachers, and visits the elect with the message of salvation. Through that message he quickens them and changes their hearts, effectively bringing them to salvation.

As far as the question about "why preach to the non-elect because it's all pointless?", tell me, do you know who the elect and non-elect are?

If we don't know who they are, then how do we apply the principle of your objection to our practiced evangelism?

Fair enough. You make good points sir. The suggestion that a person is a tool used by God to quicken makes sense. Thanks! :)
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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I never experienced the need to plead with others in regards to their salvation, even though I was friends with many non believers. Perhaps because in truth I didn't really believe it all anyways, so subconsciously I didn't feel any urgency.

I hope you won't mind me commenting, and please forgive me if I get carried away or emotional.

I've not experienced an overwhelming need to plead with others either, and perhaps less so a Calvinist. I am thankful street witnessing is not a requirement to be saved, or the proof of being saved. If salvation were based on my performance, I would be fearful and worried that I may be on the highway to hell. Thanks be to Christ, my redeemer, my substitution, my justification. In my case, I've not had many people I can truly call a friend (and when I was younger, I attended public school, it's all my folks could afford), though I have had many acquaintances, and broken short term friendships. When you have so few friends, when you socialize so little, you tend to loose skill and confidence in socializing. I think I've almost always had some reservation, maybe mixed with a dash of sinful fear of man, of how someone might respond, of the sheer awkwardness of it. In addition the jobs I've had, they were not social jobs by any means, quite the contrary. There are other poor excuses, such as how American society is today (versus past societies), by that I mean, how disconnected so many of us are, of how busy so many of us are, of how little we even know about the people living next door, that we would even socialize with neighbors on each others porch, much less have one another over for dinner. There just seems to be a MAJOR problems with modern society (sin, yeah, but I mean more specific sin), and the whole concept of "community" is vanishing. I've seen it in Churches, from denomination splinters, to splits, to no attendance of younger people, to empty pews. Not a whole lot in my life has conditioned me to be or do the work of an evangelist, and I'm not so sure that everyone calling themselves a Christian should be or is cut out to be an evangelist. Funny how Churches are so willing to send OTHER people overseas to evangelize, and give support in any manner except their LIVES. It's easy to send others to an early grave, but we've got the American dream to fulfill and take care of, got a wife and kid to look out for now bro.

Perhaps it's with persecution that evangelism...really heats up, I do not know. I'm not really a people person, and enjoy simply being home, even alone, God knows I spent enough time alone to learn how to...tolerate, even enjoy my own company for the most part, most of the time. I used to have longings for friendships, especially close friendships, where we could have meaningful discussion and enjoy one another's company, but honestly I do not even have time anymore. My social priorities are my wife and son, and I really have to work at it. My calling for now, is to take care of my son to the best of my ability, that's my primary concern for now, most everything else will have to take the backseat.
 
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twin1954

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I hope you won't mind me commenting, and please forgive me if I get carried away or emotional.

I've not experienced an overwhelming need to plead with others either, and perhaps less so a Calvinist. I am thankful street witnessing is not a requirement to be saved, or the proof of being saved. If salvation were based on my performance, I would be fearful and worried that I may be on the highway to hell. Thanks be to Christ, my redeemer, my substitution, my justification. In my case, I've not had many people I can truly call a friend (and when I was younger, I attended public school, it's all my folks could afford), though I have had many acquaintances, and broken short term friendships. When you have so few friends, when you socialize so little, you tend to loose skill and confidence in socializing. I think I've almost always had some reservation, maybe mixed with a dash of sinful fear of man, of how someone might respond, of the sheer awkwardness of it. In addition the jobs I've had, they were not social jobs by any means, quite the contrary. There are other poor excuses, such as how American society is today (versus past societies), by that I mean, how disconnected so many of us are, of how busy so many of us are, of how little we even know about the people living next door, that we would even socialize with neighbors on each others porch, much less have one another over for dinner. There just seems to be a MAJOR problems with modern society (sin, yeah, but I mean more specific sin), and the whole concept of "community" is vanishing. I've seen it in Churches, from denomination splinters, to splits, to no attendance of younger people, to empty pews. Not a whole lot in my life has conditioned me to be or do the work of an evangelist, and I'm not so sure that everyone calling themselves a Christian should be or is cut out to be an evangelist. Funny how Churches are so willing to send OTHER people overseas to evangelize, and give support in any manner except their LIVES. It's easy to send others to an early grave, but we've got the American dream to fulfill and take care of, got a wife and kid to look out for now bro.

Perhaps it's with persecution that evangelism...really heats up, I do not know. I'm not really a people person, and enjoy simply being home, even alone, God knows I spent enough time alone to learn how to...tolerate, even enjoy my own company for the most part, most of the time. I used to have longings for friendships, especially close friendships, where we could have meaningful discussion and enjoy one another's company, but honestly I do not even have time anymore. My social priorities are my wife and son, and I really have to work at it. My calling for now, is to take care of my son to the best of my ability, that's my primary concern for now, most everything else will have to take the backseat.
Read Rom. 10:13-15 over several times and ponder it.

Preachers are sent. Men are called and gifted of God to preach His Gospel and sent. Not everyone is called but everyone is to do whatever God puts in their hands to do to see that the Gospel is preached. If all that you can do is pray for the preacher then to it fervently.
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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Read Rom. 10:13-15 over several times and ponder it.

Preachers are sent. Men are called and gifted of God to preach His Gospel and sent. Not everyone is called but everyone is to do whatever God puts in their hands to do to see that the Gospel is preached. If all that you can do is pray for the preacher then to it fervently.

Thank you brother for the encouragement, much needed. Somehow God will work things out, to His glory, whether I understand or not.
 
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