Hybrid Christians

[Vanderhaust]

This is a branch from another thread that I wanted to focus on. There were many commets referring to Christians who were in effect not quite Christians. What I am referring to is what I call Hybrid Christians. These include people that claim to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ while at the same time reget the claim that Jesus is the one and true Messiah that came to earth, died for ours sins and then three days later came back life and assended into heaven. Some of these hybrid Christians include; agnostic Christians, Christian Hindus, Christian Buddhists, etc... It doesn't matter which you pick they all stem from Christianity and most of them claim to still be Christians. Which brings me to my point; my claim is that you can't believe and not believe at the same time. In other words, who out there can make the claim (and defend it) that they are a Christian, but do not believe Jesus is the one true Messiah who died for our sins and was resurected three days after his death?

 

[SanFrank]

I think you could include baha'i as a christian sect that respects but is not bound to believing in the atonement of Christ, as you posted. Going by this quote:
"Three core principles establish a basis for Bahá'í teachings and doctrine: the unity of god, unity of religion, and the unity of humankind. From these postulates stems the belief that god periodically reveals his will through divine messengers, whose purpose is to transform the character of humankind and develop, within those who respond, moral and spiritual qualities."

There has been an exponential growth in self-proclaimed messengers in the last 100 years. Their messages are so divergent from Christ's and from eachothers, I could not begin to find a common thread. Some are incredibly contrary to Christ's teachings, like that of Miranda; but he claims to be another messenger.
José Luis de Jesús - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean to show by this the need for a defining line that separates the teachings of Christ himself from everyone else that claimed to come in His footsteps. The Lord was clear that He himself would return the same way that he left. Mankind should simply wait for His return. We've been waiting since 33AD but that's besides the point.

 

[joey_downunder]

Have you met many of these self-proclaimed christians? How do they manage to balance the contradictory beliefs?

 

[smaneck]

Isn't it contrary to list rules to question whether someone is really a Christian?

 

[WannaBchristian]

Isn't it contrary to list rules to question whether someone is really a Christian?

?
U should ask a christian.

 

[Arthra]

Frank wrote above:

I think you could include baha'i as a christian sect that respects but is not bound to believing in the atonement of Christ, as you posted. Going by this quote:

"Three core principles establish a basis for Bahá'í teachings and doctrine: the unity of god, unity of religion, and the unity of humankind. From these postulates stems the belief that god periodically reveals his will through divine messengers, whose purpose is to transform the character of humankind and develop, within those who respond, moral and spiritual qualities."

.............................................

My reply:

It's interesting that Frank has not cited the source for his quote above. I would suspect it's from a wikipedia article about the Baha'i Faith..

Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the quote is fairly accurate in itself about the Baha'i Faith...notice that he doesn't capitalize God. The original article does. Baha'is out of respect to the Almighty always capitalize God.

Anyway had he read further in the wikipedia article he cited he would have read the following:

Bahá'ís, however, assert that their religion is a distinct tradition with its own scriptures, teachings, laws, and history.[12][19] While the religion was initially seen as a sect of Islam, most religious specialists now see it as an independent religion, with its religious background in Shi'a Islam being seen as analogous to the Jewish context in which Christianity was established.[20]

Baha'i Faith is an independent world religion that had it's origins in Iran/Iraq about a hundred sixty eight years ago.. It has never claimed to be "Christian" nor does it have ministers or churches. While it does recognize the Bible as inspired it also recognizes the Qur'an, the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah as authentic repositories of the Word of God.

As to the atonement of Christ the following can be found in the Baha'i Writings:

"As to the souls who are born into this world radiant entities and who through excessive difficulty are deprived of great benefits and thus leave the world -- they are worthy of all sympathy, for in reality this is worthy of regret. It is for this purpose (that is, it is with regard to this wisdom) that the great Manifestations (of God) unveil themselves in this world, bear every difficulty and ordeal -- to make these ready souls dawnings of light and confer upon them eternal life. This is the real atonement that His holiness Christ made-He sacrificed Himself for the life of the world."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v3, p. 542

 

[DCJazz]

This is a branch from another thread that I wanted to focus on. There were many commets referring to Christians who were in effect not quite Christians. What I am referring to is what I call Hybrid Christians. These include people that claim to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ while at the same time reget the claim that Jesus is the one and true Messiah that came to earth, died for ours sins and then three days later came back life and assended into heaven. Some of these hybrid Christians include; agnostic Christians, Christian Hindus, Christian Buddhists, etc... It doesn't matter which you pick they all stem from Christianity and most of them claim to still be Christians. Which brings me to my point; my claim is that you can't believe and not believe at the same time. In other words, who out there can make the claim (and defend it) that they are a Christian, but do not believe Jesus is the one true Messiah who died for our sins and was resurected three days after his death?

I can simplify it. You are either Christian, or you are not, no matter what you claim.

After all, assuming animals can talk... if a duck claims to be a dog, but walks, talks, and looks like a duck... he's not a dog, is he?

So it is with anyone saying they are Christian, but in the same breath deny Christ. There is no such thing as a 'hybrid' Christian.

 

[Booko]

I think you could include baha'i as a christian sect

No, SanFrank, you can't.

For the simple reason that Baha'is do not claim to be Christians, hybrid or otherwise.

Unless, of course, you will agree that you are a "hybrid Jew."

If this were about 50 A.D. someone might be able to reasonably make such a claim about you, but by now, nah.

 

[Booko]

Have you met many of these self-proclaimed christians? How do they manage to balance the contradictory beliefs?

I've met a few people online who said they were Christian Wicca, but that was back in 2007-2008 and I've seen no one since, and of the 3 people who carried that label within a few years they switched to just saying they were Wiccan.

I can't say I understand how the two are all that compatible either, but I guess at least 3 people thought it was possible. *shrug*

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Have you met many of these self-proclaimed christians? How do they manage to balance the contradictory beliefs?

Nearly all Christians take things out of the Bible that they like and leave the rest. But this is understandable given that obeying everything in the Bible is impossible. As Ned Flanders once said, "I’ve done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"

In fact, that Ned Flanders quote is going to become my new signature.

 

[ProScribe]

If you're a genuine Christian you can still study & explore other religions.

 

[Vanderhaust]

If the Baha'i faith doesn't present themselves as following Christ and just happen to have similar views then that is not what this thread is about and they would be excluded.

The other thing I want to point out is I wasn't making a blanket statement on how the different denominations disagree on the meaning of certain passages, such as; speaking in tongues, women speaking in church, whether or not a priest should marry, etc.. Theses are minor points and as a whole don't really make a big difference when it comes to Christianity. What I am talking about is the core beliefs, and yes every faith has them or else what is the point of that religion? When it comes to Christianity the core beliefs are clear and are as follows;

1. Jesus is the Messiah
2. He died for our sins
3. He was resurrected

These are all literal and not metaphysical or metaphoric or anything else, because without these core beliefs Christianity would be nothing more than a philosophy and your faith would be in what? Your philosophy? If people believe that their belief is in the teachings and not the Christ, then what makes them any different than a new age spiritualist?
As you can see, I am not talking about rules of conduct.

Someone mentioned rules of Christianity and I wanted to clarify this point.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

This is a branch from another thread that I wanted to focus on. There were many commets referring to Christians who were in effect not quite Christians. What I am referring to is what I call Hybrid Christians. These include people that claim to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ while at the same time reget the claim that Jesus is the one and true Messiah that came to earth, died for ours sins and then three days later came back life and assended into heaven. Some of these hybrid Christians include; agnostic Christians, Christian Hindus, Christian Buddhists, etc... It doesn't matter which you pick they all stem from Christianity and most of them claim to still be Christians. Which brings me to my point; my claim is that you can't believe and not believe at the same time. In other words, who out there can make the claim (and defend it) that they are a Christian, but do not believe Jesus is the one true Messiah who died for our sins and was resurected three days after his death?

Are you working for the Inquisition?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

. Which brings me to my point; my claim is that you can't believe and not believe at the same time.

It is a principle in doxastic logic that says "do not beliebe both A and not-A" (i.e. do not hold contradictory beliefs). However not eveyone follows these rules, it is psychologically possible to be an inconsistent thinker. I am one, reciting "I believe in the Catholic Church" in the Apostles Creed during Mass, yet am not entirely convinced of every teaching, for example on civil gay marriages. If I were consistent I might be a freethinker and not belong to any church.

 

[SanFrank]

If the Baha'i faith doesn't present themselves as following Christ and just happen to have similar views then that is not what this thread is about and they would be excluded.

Just passing by... they do claim Christ was a messenger and follow Christ's teachings but deny reliance on His work of atonement... seems to fit your criteria in the OP.

 

[Booko]

Just passing by... they do claim Christ was a messenger and follow Christ's teachings but deny reliance on His work of atonement... seems to fit your criteria in the OP.

No, we do not follow Christ's teachings. We follow Baha'u'llah's teachings.

That is why we are Baha-is and not Christ-ians.

In the same way, you do not follow Torah teachings. You follow Christ's teachings.

Really, this is not such a difficult concept, unless perhaps you are choosing willful ignorance as an option.

 

[joey_downunder]

Nearly all Christians take things out of the Bible that they like and leave the rest. But this is understandable given that obeying everything in the Bible is impossible. As Ned Flanders once said, "I’ve done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"

Especially all the commandments about crops, donkeys and mixed fibres in clothing. 21st century big city folk on a limited budget and no time to iron have no hope of obeying that type of commandment.

 

[smaneck]

?
U should ask a christian.

I don't think you have to be a Christian to know the CF rules.

 

[smaneck]

While the quote is fairly accurate in itself about the Baha'i Faith...notice that he doesn't capitalize God. The original article does. Baha'is out of respect to the Almighty always capitalize God.

You may have noted that Frank is not into respect.

 

[smaneck]

So it is with anyone saying they are Christian, but in the same breath deny Christ. There is no such thing as a 'hybrid' Christian.

Me either, but then I've never known a Christian who denied Christ. Christians may disagree about a lot of things but none of them suggest that Jesus is not the Christ.