Husband is 'Prophet, Priest & King'? It's Not In There!

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am the head of my home!

and I make a decree...

Whatever my wife says... shall be done!

 

[ThatHillisonFire]

Releasing Prophetic Intuition in Apostolic Governance - Receiving the Wisdom of Solomon

How we develop and release Prophetic Intuiton in Apostolic Governance - which is in effect asking to receive the Wisdom of Solomon - which is the birthright and inheritance of all Spirit- Filled Believers.

Firstly where does prophetic intuition reside in a Spirit - Filled believer?

I hold that that the Human Spirit has three attributions - Conscience (Witness, Moral Energy, "Understanding" - the ability to engage and speak to the rightness and wrongness "in things in themselves" as opposed to normative abstraction); Intuition (Intuiting, Spiritual Discernment, "knowing", "knowledge") and Communion (Hebrew: Yada - Heart or Noetic Knowledge, "Wisdom" - knowing gained through relating - relationship - the being "in and with" one another as ultimately expressed in our hypostatic union with the perichoretic community of the Trinity) - this is Proverbs 2:1- 6, Proverbs 4: 23, Proverbs 20: 5 and 1 John 4:13.

So intuiton is a property of the human spirit - which becomes prophetically alive when we are filled with the Holy Spirit -

So, How do we activate and increase in Prophetic Intuition?

1. By meditating on and praying in scripture into our lives -

Proverbs 2:1-5
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 My daughter, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you,


2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding,

3 and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding,

4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure,

5 THEN you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Colossians 2:2,3 - [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.[/font][/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pray these verses into your spirit - imagine you are eating them - consuming them and absorbing them - start saying "Lord Jesus please release your wisdom, knowledge, understanding and discernment in and through my ministry to your service and for your glory and BELIEVE THAT HE WHO HAS STARTED A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL TAKE IT FORWARD TO COMPLETION.

Now I declare that You will be will given the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that she may know that Jesus is the LORD , the God of Israel, who summons her by name - Isaiah 45:3 - even before she was conceived - Psalm 139: 15


I also want you to pray this Heart Prayer regularly - either in parts or as a whole -


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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Heart Prayer (Based on Ephesians 1: 17 -19): [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Father, my all consuming passion, my burning desire is that I receive more of the fullness and release of the Holy Spirit in my life, the Spirit of wisdom, insight, knowledge (yarda - Hebrew for relational knowledge - knowledge gained through intimacy), understanding and discernment and that you draw me further in and further up, from shadow to substance, that you draw me deeper into our love relationship, which is your opening of your self to me and my submission to you.

Lord Jesus Christ, less of me and more of you, cover me with your grace, rock of ages cleft for me, let me hide myself in you and experience you manifesting more of yourself in me. Please draw me further and deeper into the reality of your presence and into the transformation of your likeness so that my love may be complete! Through your presence Holy Spirit in my spirit, I commit myself to be governed, taught and led by You as You are the Spirit of increasing and unfolding Revelation, who is at work in my life, changing me from glory to glory.

Holy Spirit, I welcome you, I call to you, I am reaching out for you, I am on fire for your fullness and release in my life, sweep through me Breath of God like a mighty rushing wind, I want to be caught up in your slipstream - please remove any influences, obstacles, hindrances, strongholds, barricades, barriers, thoughts, mindsets, worldviews, beliefs, attitudes, intentions, motivations, behaviours that may resist you Holy Spirit from consuming everything, filling me totally and dwelling in me, from flowing in, through, around, over, under and out through my life - let your fire fall right now and purify me, sanctify me.

Please grant this to me by your shed blood Lord Jesus that I may be supernaturally equipped, enabled and released to know you beyond mere rational abstract informational knowledge - open my heart, your word is truth, pour your self into me and enter in as I enter in to you, as I am with you and in you in the Jordan in the presence of the Trinity. I want you to grab hold of me Lord Jesus Christ and pull, so that I may know you in an ever deeper relational way as my closest friend, just as I am known by you and deeply loved by you. Holy Spirit be my counsellor, be my comforter, be my paraclete - throw your mantle of fire around my shoulders, this eternal weight of glory, let it be all consuming, but not consumed - do not let it fall to the ground.

Now I ask Father that in your loving tenderness, you open the lens of my heart and through the Lord Jesus say let there be light as the Holy Spirit fills my "inner man", my inner being, my spirit with your love, your word, your presence and your increasing revelation as I draw closer and closer to you. Quicken your word in me, Lord Jesus, you are the word become flesh at work in me, help me to grow more like you.

Fill my heart with your loving kindness, your glorious presence, Lord Jesus, let your glory pass by through me, so that I can know the hope, the testimony, the witness and promise of your goodness, power, humility and strength - your calling, purpose and destiny in my life. Thank you for the increasing joy of your presence as you sing and call to us - grace me now, as I shout back grace, grace to you the cornerstone - I want to be plunged into your mighty river flowing through me.

I declare that I will have an ever deepening relationship and receive the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in your face as I see you face to face - Lord, I am the jar of clay in your hands, the treasure is within - this wellspring, this fount of wisdom, insight, understanding and discernment - well up, fill me and overflow - pour your self through me, Holy Spirit and pour me out in your service, make me a living well of revival.

I also pray that the light of your word, Lord Jesus will flood my whole being - my "inner man" and my "outer man" - so that I may know and experience the surpassing greatness of your power towards me. Lord give me a powerful inner life and make me a believing believer. I call this forth in my life, as your servant and witness and I declare I will follow the Lamb all the days of my life and win for the Lamb the rewards of his suffering, for the honour, glory and greatness of your name, in the earthly and heavenly places, as it is all being summed up in you Lord Jesus Christ and you will fill everything."

Amen.[/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now on the issue of the important role of Women in Apostolic Governance -
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]On Apostolic Ministry today - :

Kenosis - including releasing ministries, transferring mantles, church planting, working in miracles, signs and wonders, releasing the potential of others.

Doctrine - including the defense, promotion, teaching, proclamation, preaching, upholding, inculcation and living out of the Apostolic Doctrine which is the Gospel.

Governance - including setting things in order, governance - but in this mercy triumphs over judgement - this is not ideological or pharisaical.

Sufferings - including the witness, the Apostolic Sufferings, the travails, enduring all things in the fruit of the Spirit for the sake of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Fathering and Mothering - we are called to be Fathers and Mothers and to work with the Youth - AS EQUALS- in bringing them to maturity in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Authority - By the blood shed at the Cross and the work of the Resurrection we are all vested with the full authority of the Lord Jesus Christ through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit - it is the abuse of this authority which places you in danger of being excluded from the Kingdom or your works coming to nothing.'
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Now - we move into Apostolic Governance by standing on our Inheritance - I am going - by Faith to release the Apostolic Mandate given to Women through the Power of the Seed (Jesus) into your Life - Right Now! - so that it starts to grow up in You and manifest in your Ministry - with Wisdom, Maturity and Authority in Christ -[/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jesus identified with us at the Fall through being the incorruptible Seed in Eve. Out of Eve came a righteous line -sent out through Abel initially - until the Devil murdered him through Cain - for as Jesus said in:[/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John 8:44 He was a murderer from the beginning
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and then through Seth down to Mary, Luke 3:23 - 38.

Now the incorruptible seed present in Eve and the righteous line out of Eve and what C.S. Lewis calls the "Daughters of Eve" is at work in all christian women.

They have an unique apostolic authority to be life bearers, life proclaimers and life releasers - (male apostolic authority at the Fall was expressed by 'going outside the camp' through Adam leaving Eden and through Moses going outside the camp to the tabernacle -

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hebrews 13:13 [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach -[/font][/font]

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]but that is for another thread) - when a christian woman speaks into your life in Christ she is testifying and calling to the 'incorruptible seed' at work in you through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit - who is transforming you from an acorn into an oak of righteousness - 'Deep is calling to Deep' - Psalm 42:7 and something will be released in you - you will receive an anointing that comes through the ministry of Women of God - christian women - because what was a seed in Eve and birthed through Mary is Life in Abundance - His life in us and our lives in Him - Christian Woman are life bearers and wherever they go they speak life into things - even dead works in the Church - because they are living witnesses to the incorruptible seed in Eve and at work in them.

We need to recognise that the priesthood is changing and that we are all prophets, priests, kings and queens.

In the Old Testament we see that there were three offices among the people of Israel: Prophets, Priests and Kings. They were all called by God. Samuel was called to be a prophet, Aaron called to be a priest, David called to be a king...

These three offices of prophet, priest, and king foreshadowed — the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Apostolic in this context is the authority to proclaim, declare and release life - in effect releasing ministries and living out of the Power of the Seed who is Jesus expressed through the Holy Spirit in us.

It was James Brown who sang "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]this is a man's world but it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman."[/font][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...and Esther was called to be a Queen.

IN THE NAME OF HIM WHO HOLDS HEAVEN AND EARTH IN HIS HAND AND WHO WILL RAISE THE DEAD AGAIN - RECEIVE YOUR ESTHER MANDATE! AMEN.

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now I bless You - Increase in everything you are and do - [/font]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Genesis 24:60 (KJV) And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions (On us - the righteous line from Eve through Jesus - 'What have we become? Micpar (Hebrew). Large. Innumerable') and let thy seed (the righteous line sent out from Eve) possess the gate (a symbol of governance and government) of those which hate them (the world, the flesh and the devil).
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[/font][/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Amen.[/font][/font]
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[lesliej]

Dear FireOfGod,
Do not ever apologize for asking for scripture references. Religious tradition is very strong (and we all have our own!) & our opinions are valued (and again, we all have our own!)...but the Word of God reigns supreme. In fact, the Bible says that to seek out scripture references means that you are more "noble" than the rest! (Acts 17:11)

Now as to the two references which our dear brother, Questioning Christian, gave you,

He has made us kings and priests unto our God - Revelation 1:6

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar
people - I Peter 2:9 ; royal=kings; priesthood=priests

Neither of these scriptures apply to men only, but to all Christians, regardless of race, gender or nationality. Just check it out for yourself.

And, Oscarr, I loved your comment:

I am the head of my home!

and I make a decree...

Whatever my wife says... shall be done!

You sound just like Jesus! (See yesterday's post, #6 on this thread I believe, regarding Ephesians 5 and how Christ empowered His Church!)

 

[FireOfGod]

Dear FireOfGod,
Do not ever apologize for asking for scripture references. Religious tradition is very strong (and we all have our own!) & our opinions are valued (and again, we all have our own!)...but the Word of God reigns supreme. In fact, the Bible says that to seek out scripture references means that you are more "noble" than the rest! (Acts 17:11)

Now as to the two references which our dear brother, Questioning Christian, gave you,



Neither of these scriptures apply to men only, but to all Christians, regardless of race, gender or nationality. Just check it out for yourself.

And, Oscarr, I loved your comment:



You sound just like Jesus! (See yesterday's post, #6 on this thread I believe, regarding Ephesians 5 and how Christ empowered His Church!)

Haha, thank you. I apprectiate your kindess and comments. However, I wasn't apologizing for asking for scripture. I was apologizing because I didn't mean to get him hyped up thinking I wanted a Bible battle. Which he probably, understanably, thought.

 

[dignitized]

I am deeply concerned about the hold that this "Prophet, Priest & King" teaching has on the Church today, and especially the charismatic/spirit-filled movement.

might I suggest a copy of P Bunny Wilson's book - Liberated through Submission.

 

[kooolfriend]

Releasing Prophetic Intuition in Apostolic Governance - Receiving the Wisdom of Solomon

How we develop and release Prophetic Intuiton in Apostolic Governance - which is in effect asking to receive the Wisdom of Solomon - which is the birthright and inheritance of all Spirit- Filled Believers.

Firstly where does prophetic intuition reside in a Spirit - Filled believer?

I hold that that the Human Spirit has three attributions - Conscience (Witness, Moral Energy, "Understanding" - the ability to engage and speak to the rightness and wrongness "in things in themselves" as opposed to normative abstraction); Intuition (Intuiting, Spiritual Discernment, "knowing", "knowledge") and Communion (Hebrew: Yada - Heart or Noetic Knowledge, "Wisdom" - knowing gained through relating - relationship - the being "in and with" one another as ultimately expressed in our hypostatic union with the perichoretic community of the Trinity) - this is Proverbs 2:1- 6, Proverbs 4: 23, Proverbs 20: 5 and 1 John 4:13.

So intuiton is a property of the human spirit - which becomes prophetically alive when we are filled with the Holy Spirit -

So, How do we activate and increase in Prophetic Intuition?

1. By meditating on and praying in scripture into our lives -





[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pray these verses into your spirit - imagine you are eating them - consuming them and absorbing them - start saying "Lord Jesus please release your wisdom, knowledge, understanding and discernment in and through my ministry to your service and for your glory and BELIEVE THAT HE WHO HAS STARTED A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL TAKE IT FORWARD TO COMPLETION.

Now I declare that You will be will given the treasures of darkness, riches stored in secret places, so that she may know that Jesus is the LORD , the God of Israel, who summons her by name - Isaiah 45:3 - even before she was conceived - Psalm 139: 15


I also want you to pray this Heart Prayer regularly - either in parts or as a whole -


[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now on the issue of the important role of Women in Apostolic Governance -
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Now - we move into Apostolic Governance by standing on our Inheritance - I am going - by Faith to release the Apostolic Mandate given to Women through the Power of the Seed (Jesus) into your Life - Right Now! - so that it starts to grow up in You and manifest in your Ministry - with Wisdom, Maturity and Authority in Christ -[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jesus identified with us at the Fall through being the incorruptible Seed in Eve. Out of Eve came a righteous line -sent out through Abel initially - until the Devil murdered him through Cain - for as Jesus said in:[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and then through Seth down to Mary, Luke 3:23 - 38.

Now the incorruptible seed present in Eve and the righteous line out of Eve and what C.S. Lewis calls the "Daughters of Eve" is at work in all christian women.

They have an unique apostolic authority to be life bearers, life proclaimers and life releasers - (male apostolic authority at the Fall was expressed by 'going outside the camp' through Adam leaving Eden and through Moses going outside the camp to the tabernacle -

[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]but that is for another thread) - when a christian woman speaks into your life in Christ she is testifying and calling to the 'incorruptible seed' at work in you through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit - who is transforming you from an acorn into an oak of righteousness - 'Deep is calling to Deep' - Psalm 42:7 and something will be released in you - you will receive an anointing that comes through the ministry of Women of God - christian women - because what was a seed in Eve and birthed through Mary is Life in Abundance - His life in us and our lives in Him - Christian Woman are life bearers and wherever they go they speak life into things - even dead works in the Church - because they are living witnesses to the incorruptible seed in Eve and at work in them.

We need to recognise that the priesthood is changing and that we are all prophets, priests, kings and queens.

In the Old Testament we see that there were three offices among the people of Israel: Prophets, Priests and Kings. They were all called by God. Samuel was called to be a prophet, Aaron called to be a priest, David called to be a king...

These three offices of prophet, priest, and king foreshadowed — the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Apostolic in this context is the authority to proclaim, declare and release life - in effect releasing ministries and living out of the Power of the Seed who is Jesus expressed through the Holy Spirit in us.

It was James Brown who sang "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]this is a man's world but it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman."[/font][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...and Esther was called to be a Queen.

IN THE NAME OF HIM WHO HOLDS HEAVEN AND EARTH IN HIS HAND AND WHO WILL RAISE THE DEAD AGAIN - RECEIVE YOUR ESTHER MANDATE! AMEN.

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now I bless You - Increase in everything you are and do - [/font]
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[/font][/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Amen.[/font][/font]
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It’s really anointed and powerful what you are saying.
Now, I am understanding things that I have searched for a long time.
And am agreeing and receiving all that you’ve prayed!
Thanks.

 

[ThatHillisonFire]

Kooolfriend

Use the Heart Prayer - it is purposed to open and quicken us in the prophetic. We can speak again - You are going to be directly discipled by the Holy Spirit and by the way, the way you read Scripture is going to have increasing depth and definition - MORE LIFE! You may start to experience some perceptual shift - like being able see deeper into the colour spectrum, as in beginning to be able to see infrared and ultravoilet - it is all part of the realignment - there will come that moment and it is an epiphany, when you will see the substance in sunlight and the Communion of Love expressed as the Eternal uncreated Light shining out of creation, even in its present travails and groanings.

 

[enoch son]

Talking about dumb doctrine this one takes the cake. Sense the frist true apostle to porcliam the risen Christ was Mary Magdalene why the men hid!

 

[lesliej]

To Br. Max, thank you very much for your suggestion of that book. And without a doubt, the author of this book is a wonderful, godly, sincere saint…but you can be sincere and still be sincerely wrong. Might I suggest a few books as well?

Why Not Women? by Loren Cunningham (founder of YWAM) & David Hamilton

10 Lies The Church Tells Women by J. Lee Grady (best-selling author and editor of Charisma magazine)

Does God Really Prefer Men? An Open Letter To The Church In America by Leslie Johnson (me!) and my wonderful husband, Gary Johnson

The first two books have been around a few years and do a wonderful job of addressing controversial scripture. And after 20 years in Christian ministry, my husband and I felt so passionate about the subject of biblical gender equality that the Lord moved upon us to write Does God Really Prefer Men?. It just came out the summer and has over 250 references, the vast majority being scripture. All of these books can be found at Amazon, BooksAMillion & Barnes&Nobles. And, no. If you had not brought up books, I never would have mentioned my own.

 

[dignitized]

Talking about dumb doctrine this one takes the cake. Sense the frist true apostle to porcliam the risen Christ was Mary Magdalene why the men hid!

Mary Madeline was the first evangelist - the first to tell of the risen Christ, but she was not an apostle but a disciple.

 

[Simon_Templar]

So what do you think the next portion of scripture will be that you'll throw out due to a "move of the Holy Spirit"?

 

[dpatrick]

So what do you think the next portion of scripture will be that you'll throw out due to a "move of the Holy Spirit"?

To Simon_T: What ON EARTH are you referring to?

 

[dpatrick]

And, unless we forget, all of this inequality was a result of the fall anyway. Before the fall, Eve stood sid-by-side with her husband. In Genesis 1:28 we plainly see that God gave "them" dominion over the garden and told "them" to reign and rule. And then Adam fell. And God said that he could now expect a life of sweat, toil and frustration and Eve was told that Adam would rule over her. How the mighty had fallen! But Christ became a curse so that every curse could be broken! (Galatians 3:13)

I'd like to share that I have an awesome relationship with my wife, and I attribute it primarily to finally following the Lord's leading according to the scripture "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. When I seek equality (which not only implies equal status but equal treatment, mine as well as hers -- get it?), things fall apart. When I seek equal rights, things get all out of whack. But when I seek a lifestyle of laying down my life for her, things fall into place - POWERFULLY.

In fact, let me tell a short story if no one minds. Before I married, I was very much in love with my future wife and wished to marry her, but there were circumstances that caused me to question whether I should proceed with the relationship or not. I was seeking the Lord daily. Then one day, the Lord put on my heart to stop what I was doing and to pray. Reluctantly I went to my room, and no sooner had I gotten down on my knees, the Lord said to me, "Do you love me enough to give her up?" A terrible pause, and then I said, "Yes Lord," and I broke, weeping and weeping. But after a moment, the Lord said, "Then love her with the same sacrifice." That has stuck with me ever since.

All of this to say, as much as I believe we are co-heirs in Christ and equal in anointing and ministry, I would not be inclined to believe that the relationship between a husband and wife is "all because of the fall." I would be persuaded to agree with Paul, who said that "This is a profound mystery" of Divine design, even reflective of Christ and His relationship with the church.

 

[kooolfriend]

Kooolfriend

Use the Heart Prayer - it is purposed to open and quicken us in the prophetic. We can speak again - You are going to be directly discipled by the Holy Spirit and by the way, the way you read Scripture is going to have increasing depth and definition - MORE LIFE! You may start to experience some perceptual shift - like being able see deeper into the colour spectrum, as in beginning to be able to see infrared and ultravoilet - it is all part of the realignment - there will come that moment and it is an epiphany, when you will see the substance in sunlight and the Communion of Love expressed as the Eternal uncreated Light shining out of creation, even in its present travails and groanings.

Yes, I am praying the heart prayer more than regularly as often as I can, and each time I pray it, am grasping something more.
The Holy Spirit is actively working in me.

Can you tell me more about the meaning of epiphany?

 

[merryheart]

Mary Madeline was the first evangelist - the first to tell of the risen Christ, but she was not an apostle but a disciple.

Apostle means "sent one" or "messenger" Why is it so difficult to imagine Mary Magdaline being rightly called the messenger of God?

 

[dignitized]

Apostle means "sent one" or "messenger" Why is it so difficult to imagine Mary Magdaline being rightly called the messenger of God?

Call her a messanger if you like - but she was not one of the 12. There were only 12 Apostles until after Pentecost and even then - all the additional apostles were - *gasp* - men.

 

[lesliej]

Call her a messanger if you like - but she was not one of the 12. There were only 12 Apostles until after Pentecost and even then - all the additional apostles were - *gasp* - men.

I'm sorry, Brother, but you're mistaken. Of course the 12 disciples were called to be "witnesses" to the 12 tribes of Israel first, and then go into all the world. And then after pentecost there were many apostles, just as you mentioned. And I, too, thought that all the recorded apostles were men until just a few years ago. But in Romans 16:7, Paul clearly referred to the woman Junia as being "outstanding among the apostles." Now there are many fine resources to prove this, but Dr. Kenneth E. Bailey is one of my favorites. The Rev. Dr. Kenneth E. Bailey has spent 40 years as a Presbyterian professor of New Testament in Egypt, Lebanon, Jerusalem and Cyprus and this is what he has to say on this subject: "with Chrysostom, the Early Church Fathers, Arabic & Syriac Christianity, and the Authorized Version [Bible] translators, we can affirm with full confidence that Junia (feminine) was an apostle." Now I'm just a newbie and can't post a link, but if you'll go to Christians for Biblical Equality and click on their 'Free Articles' tab, you will find many great resources! And you can also find Dr. Bailey's "Theology Matters" Newsletter that addresses the subject of Junia the apostle and Phoebe the deacon and much, much more!

 

[dignitized]

I'm sorry, Brother, but you're mistaken. Of course the 12 disciples were called to be "witnesses" to the 12 tribes of Israel first, and then go into all the world. And then after pentecost there were many apostles, just as you mentioned. And I, too, thought that all the recorded apostles were men until just a few years ago. But in Romans 16:7, Paul clearly referred to the woman Junia as being "outstanding among the apostles." Now there are many fine resources to prove this, but Dr. Kenneth E. Bailey is one of my favorites. The Rev. Dr. Kenneth E. Bailey has spent 40 years as a Presbyterian professor of New Testament in Egypt, Lebanon, Jerusalem and Cyprus and this is what he has to say on this subject: "with Chrysostom, the Early Church Fathers, Arabic & Syriac Christianity, and the Authorized Version [Bible] translators, we can affirm with full confidence that Junia (feminine) was an apostle." Now I'm just a newbie and can't post a link, but if you'll go to Christians for Biblical Equality and click on their 'Free Articles' tab, you will find many great resources! And you can also find Dr. Bailey's "Theology Matters" Newsletter that addresses the subject of Junia the apostle and Phoebe the deacon and much, much more!

There were only 12 APOSTLES - there were lots and lots of DISCIPLES. As for Junia - there is just as much a chance that Junia is a MAN - as there is that Junia is a woman - MORE SO considering that Peter's name is a feminine version.

 

[dpatrick]

There were only 12 Apostles until after Pentecost . . .

Max, this may be easy, but what is your support for this, specifically the word "apostle"?

 

[Simon_Templar]

a few responses...

Was Junia a woman? The answer is.. unknown. In the greek the word is actually Junian which is the accusative case and unlike most other noun instances in greek can be either feminine or masculine. If it is feminine it would be Junia, if it is masculine it would be Junias.
The evidence for wether this is a woman or a man is pretty much split, and has been since the beginning. In the early church there are sources who refer to this person as a woman, Junia, and there are sources who refer to it as a man junias...
The most notable source for the woman interpetation is John Chrysostom, who writes that Junia must have been a great woman to be numbered among the apostles, but especially great to be considered great among the apostles.. it is notable that even given this John Chrysostom did not believe in ordaining women (which we'll come back to later).
John is about the earliest source to refrence junia as a woman, and he is about 300 years after the fact. It is very likely that most of the other early sources that regard junia as a woman took their cue from John Chrysostom. It is evident from John's comment though, that he new nothing of this Junia person other than the refrence in Romans 16.
The modern commentators, influenced by feminism, have rabidly attacked the idea that this name could be Junias, a man, stating catagoricly that this was an invention of the 12th century chauvanistic church, and saying the early church writers agreed unanimously that it was Junia a woman.
However, this is simply false, and the modern comments to this effect are either made from ignorance or deliberate falsehood. In one instance a 'scholar' named Genz who has written on the topic even alleged that Origen wrote of Junia as a woman, when in fact the exact opposite is true. Origen wrote the name Junias (1000 years before the Junias change supposedly took place)
The only early church writer who claims any historical knowledge of the person in question Junia/Junias is Epiphanius (lived just before, or contemporary with Chrysostom). Epiphanius wrote the name Junias, considered him to be a man, and stated that he eventually became the bishop of Apameia in Syria.

SO, the earliest church writers on the topic are split. There is strong evidence that Junias was a man but enough contrary evidence to cast doubt.

So what about the rest of the passage?
What does the verse mean when it says Junia/Junias was a prominant apostle among apostles... or does it mean that junia/junias was prominant (or well known) by the apostles? In other words is it saying that Junia/junias was an apostle, or merely that this person was well known by the apostles....

Again the evidence is unlcear.. the greek construction of the sentence can actually mean either one and is actually used both ways, both in scripture and in non biblical greek literature... thus the verse could reasonably interpeted either way, on simply gramatical terms.

Lastly... and most conclusively.. looking at the adjective involved "prominant"... Junia was prominant among the apostles... This adjective in greek is used only a couple of times in the NT and is used a few times in the OT septuagint translation. In one case (NT) it is used negatively and means "notorious"... in every other instance where the adjective in question is used together with the term "among" a group of people.. it means that the person is more well known than the other members of the group, or that the person's fame or preminance is notable above the rest of the group.

Thus.. if Paul here is using the word Apostle in the technical sense of the office of apostles that he and the other 12 claimed.. then he is literaly saying that Junia/junias is more well known, more famous, more eminant than himself, Peter, James, John etc.

This is fairly conclusive textual evidence that the usage of "apostle" here should be read as "messanger" not apostle in the authoritative sense, wether junias a man, or junia, this person who is never mentioned again in scripture and is almost unknown to history outside of scripture was obviously not more well known or more preeminant than the rest of the 12 apostles.