Discussion Hunger and thirst for righteousness!

[outsidethecamp]

I have fellowship with my wife. I don't think about the depth of it. If I really love my wife then I will enjoy being with her and share my life with its dream and ambitions, and will do all I can to make her life with me meaningful and enjoyable as well.

If I happened to say to my wife, "I am not sure I love you enough to have good, enjoyable fellowship with you", she would probably divorce me!

I think if we really love God, we would just enjoy living in His presence and in the light of His countenance, and not worry about whether it is deep enough After all, it is the role of The Holy Spirit within us to reveal the deep things of God to us to enable us to greatly appreciate who He is and what He is to us.

That is partially true. This brings up another point/question and I will let you decid if it should be in another thread.

Is righteousness a one time thing or is righteousness meant to be experienced by the believer?

Rom_6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

"Members" being our heart, soul, mind, will, hands, feet, etc. Spiritual and Physical members.

And are we to grow in righteousness and holiness?

1Pe_1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

If this is derailing the thread, kindly ignore my post.

 

[faroukfarouk]

That is partially true. This brings up another point/question and I will let you decid if it should be in another thread.

Is righteousness a one time thing or is righteousness meant to be experienced by the believer?

Rom_6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

"Members" being our heart, soul, mind, will, hands, feet, etc. Spiritual and Physical members.

And are we to grow in righteousness and holiness?

1Pe_1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

If this is derailing the thread, kindly ignore my post.

In this sense, righteousness is part of an understanding justification by faith.

 

[outsidethecamp]

In this sense, righteousness is part of an understanding justification by faith.

Yes, that is the one time righteousness I was referring to.

But is a Christian supposed to experience righteousness (I am not referring to salvation) in their life?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, that is the one time righteousness I was referring to.

But is a Christian supposed to experience righteousness (I am not referring to salvation) in their life?

Oh yes; there are the two aspects; the second is more akin to sanctification.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Oh yes; there are the two aspects; the second is more akin to sanctification.

Exactly.

1Pet_1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1Pet_1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

2Pet_3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

[faroukfarouk]

Exactly.

1Pet_1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1Pet_1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

2Pet_3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Traditionally there has been much confusion between justification and sanctification. The church of Rome tends to confuse the two. Biblical Protestants have tended to make a clear distinction between the two, however.

 

[Sadiegrl]

In my understanding, this thread is simply referring to the desire to know more of our Lord and as we do, we continue to realize how dependent we are on Him to satisfy us fully. No earthly thing can do this, our flesh still remains hungry for more of its own doom. But in this same way, the spirit desires more and more of Christ.

I am in this place in my walk with Christ and while I still experience all the frustrations and limitations of sin, I see my Savior even if only as glimpses, and am inspired to grow even closer.

After much Bible reading and studies, I've found out how important prayer is...I know this sounds silly probably as many people are prayer warriors from early on...but in exploring my own relationship with Christ, He's shown me how important it is for me to pray for others, intercession I suppose it's called, and how to grow in grace through such times of closeness. It's weird though how easily distractions happen once I start to pray. Now I don't mean the thought prayers I do throughout the day, but the time I try to go into a quiet room and spend time with God thanking Him and praying for others. Sooner or later something happens though to interrupt! As a mother of three, "Mommy!" is heard soooo often and I wonder if God minds that I interrupt our prayer time. All I know is that I thirst for more of Christ, He is the fountain of living water, the only thing I truly crave, the only one who can make my heart thump with affection as soon as I look to Him, and my mentor and friend. However! I'm definitely in need of more spiritual friends! That seems to be something else I thirst for...

 

[outsidethecamp]

It doesn't make sense for a believer to attempt to measure the level of "hunger" in another believer.

True.

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

 

[faroukfarouk]

In my understanding, this thread is simply referring to the desire to know more of our Lord and as we do, we continue to realize how dependent we are on Him to satisfy us fully. No earthly thing can do this, our flesh still remains hungry for more of its own doom. But in this same way, the spirit desires more and more of Christ.

I am in this place in my walk with Christ and while I still experience all the frustrations and limitations of sin, I see my Savior even if only as glimpses, and am inspired to grow even closer.

After much Bible reading and studies, I've found out how important prayer is...I know this sounds silly probably as many people are prayer warriors from early on...but in exploring my own relationship with Christ, He's shown me how important it is for me to pray for others, intercession I suppose it's called, and how to grow in grace through such times of closeness. It's weird though how easily distractions happen once I start to pray. Now I don't mean the thought prayers I do throughout the day, but the time I try to go into a quiet room and spend time with God thanking Him and praying for others. Sooner or later something happens though to interrupt! As a mother of three, "Mommy!" is heard soooo often and I wonder if God minds that I interrupt our prayer time. All I know is that I thirst for more of Christ, He is the fountain of living water, the only thing I truly crave, the only one who can make my heart thump with affection as soon as I look to Him, and my mentor and friend. However! I'm definitely in need of more spiritual friends! That seems to be something else I thirst for...

I love how both Philippians 4 and 1 Thessalonians 5 emphasize prayer in the believer's experience.

 

[Alithis]

If you are still hungering and thirsting for righteousness then you may not be saved yet, but are still a "seeker" after God. When a person is converted to Christ, his sin is laid on Jesus and God clothes the converted person with the righteousness of Christ. This means that the person is totally righteous before God. Note this Scripture:

"He who did not sin was made sin for us that we may become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21). At conversion there is an exchange of sin and righteousness. Jesus takes our sin, paying the price and taking the punishment of it, and we are gifted with His righteousness. Therefore, there is no further hungering for righteousness. The words of Jesus that He spoke to the unconverted Jews of His time that those who hunger for righteousness will be filled. is totally fulfilled and completed the moment a person receives Christ and is born again. Then there is no more hungering. Why continue to hunger when you are made completely righteous before God in Christ?

A converted Christian is filled with the godhead bodily. He is filled with the Spirit, God lives inside of Him. How much more of God do we need? Do you fit that profile, or are you still a "seeker" after God with Christian conversion still in your future? (just stirring the pot to encourage you to search the scriptures more closely about these issues).

hmmm..i wonder i don't think it quiet means that . Thats is to say i do not think it is so singular in essence ..
i hunger and thirst for righteousness.. and yet i know im saved .thats done
(as long as i remain IN him and he IN me .)
but i speak of the many precepts and perceptions of righteousness

i see governments making Godless laws .and i hunger for that to be rectified
i see people doing evil and causing victims to be harmed ..i hunger for that to be put right
I see pain hurt hunger disease all around me.. i hunger for that to be corrected
etc.

in all these ways im hungering for the righteousness of God ..if anything i hunger this more now that ,by faith , i am made the righteousness of God in Christ JEsus

 

[jiminpa]

What do you do in an attempt to satiate your hunger?

Spend time with Him, fellowship, worship, sometimes I just sit and hang out with God. I'm not all that good at all of that. I'm way too distractable.

 

[jiminpa]

hmmm..i wonder i don't think it quiet means that . Thats is to say i do not think it is so singular in essence ..
i hunger and thirst for righteousness.. and yet i know im saved .thats done
(as long as i remain IN him and he IN me
but i speak of the many precepts and perceptions of righteousness

i see governments making Godless laws .and i hunger for that to be rectified
i see people doing evil and causing victims to be harmed ..i hunger for that to be put right
I see pain hurt hunger disease all around me.. i hunger for that to be corrected
etc.

in all these ways im hungering for the righteousness of God ..if anything i hunger this more now that ,by faith , i am made the righteousness of God in Christ JEsus

Thank you Mike. You said it so much better than I have so far.

 

[jiminpa]

I have fellowship with my wife. I don't think about the depth of it. If I really love my wife then I will enjoy being with her and share my life with its dream and ambitions, and will do all I can to make her life with me meaningful and enjoyable as well.

If I happened to say to my wife, "I am not sure I love you enough to have good, enjoyable fellowship with you", she would probably divorce me!

I think if we really love God, we would just enjoy living in His presence and in the light of His countenance, and not worry about whether it is deep enough After all, it is the role of The Holy Spirit within us to reveal the deep things of God to us to enable us to greatly appreciate who He is and what He is to us.

Who's worried? I'm not trying to put measurable quanifications on it. I said something about that as a response to a question.

It's awesome that you are so close to your wife. I think as long as I see as through a glass dimly, I will not be able to be close enough to God to satisfy me completely. I have no intention of apologizing for that. Does that mean I don't love Him enough? I don't know, and that's not my point. I'm honest enough with God to tell Him that He is worthy of more than my finite little love. Does it mean that He doesn't accept my love. Nor does it mean that I God doen't love me enough? That is not possible. His love is infinite. I mean truly beyond our comprehension, infite.

This thread is not about any amount of condemnation. It is about hungering for more of God. If anyone here is satisfied with the love our flesh can bear I can't change that, and don't want to, but for those of us who want more, and when we are filled we desire more hunger to be filled more and on and on, until that day when we are face to face, let us encourage one another to press on and dig deeper, and love more and be loved more.

 

[Svt4Him]

Spend time with Him, fellowship, worship, sometimes I just sit and hang out with God. I'm not all that good at all of that. I'm way too distractable.

Totally agree, and also make decisions that are in the will of God. Basically get to know Him, study and search things out.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is partially true. This brings up another point/question and I will let you decide if it should be in another thread.

Don't worry about that. It is always good to stimulate good discussion.

Is righteousness a one time thing or is righteousness meant to be experienced by the believer?

The giving of the gift of Christ's righteousness at the point of conversion is a one-time event. We then start practicing righteousness because of the gift we have been given. It is a case of "already but not yet" because both are true.

Rom_6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

This a true instruction. We need to live worthily of the gift of righteousness that God has given to us in Christ.

"Members" being our heart, soul, mind, will, hands, feet, etc. Spiritual and Physical members.
And are we to grow in righteousness and holiness?

What people get confused over is that they don't understand the concept of "already but not yet". We are already made righteous in a one-time act. God gives the gift once and it is ours for all time. Now, we grow in holy conduct as our minds a transformed by the work of The Holy Spirit to become conformed to the nature of Christ.

1Pe_1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Note the bold bit. 'This is past tense. We have already purified our soul in obeying the truth of the Gospel and accepted Christ as Saviour. There from that instant we are totally pure. Seeing that we are pure as far as God is concerned, let's live like it. That's what Peter is saying. He is saying, "Let's start living up to who we are in Christ."

If this is derailing the thread, kindly ignore my post.

It isn't. It is still relevant to the discussion.

 

[JustHisKid]

hmmm..i wonder i don't think it quiet means that . Thats is to say i do not think it is so singular in essence ..
i hunger and thirst for righteousness.. and yet i know im saved .thats done
(as long as i remain IN him and he IN me .)
but i speak of the many precepts and perceptions of righteousness

i see governments making Godless laws .and i hunger for that to be rectified
i see people doing evil and causing victims to be harmed ..i hunger for that to be put right
I see pain hurt hunger disease all around me.. i hunger for that to be corrected
etc.

in all these ways im hungering for the righteousness of God ..if anything i hunger this more now that ,by faith , i am made the righteousness of God in Christ JEsus

The evil in this world does grieve my heart deeply and I yearn for God's judgement on this wicked planet.

.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Now, we grow in holy conduct as our minds a transformed by the work of The Holy Spirit to become conformed to the nature of Christ.

We have already

purified our soul in obeying the truth of the Gospel and accepted Christ as Saviour. There from that instant we are totally pure. Seeing that we are pure as far as God is concerned, let's live like it. That's what Peter is saying. He is saying, "Let's start living up to who we are in Christ."

Ok, just to keep things straight. You said we grow in holy conduct, but we have already purified our souls because the only truth that you think we needed to obey to accomplish that was to accept Christ. From that point we are totally pure.

Do you mean we "walk in holy conduct" because there is no growing to do since we already purified our souls?

 

[Alithis]

The evil in this world does grieve my heart deeply and I yearn for God's judgement on this wicked planet.

.

i know what you mean .. but iv learned not to desire his judgment upon the word but his mercy ... that hearts may be changes ..that many more might become his righteousness in Christ Jesus and by his mercy in the lord JEsus escape the judgment that is coming upon the inhabitants of the earth .

you see we cannot desire judgment and its consequence AND both love them at the same time .(god can - we cant )

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Ok, just to keep things straight. You said we grow in holy conduct, but we have already purified our souls because the only truth that you think we needed to obey to accomplish that was to accept Christ. From that point we are totally pure.

Do you mean we "walk in holy conduct" because there is no growing to do since we already purified our souls?

You are confusing Justification with Sanctification. Justification by faith is where we are completely cleansed and purified by having our sins nailed to cross of Christ and us receiving the righteousness of Christ. Progressive sanctification is us growing in grace and in the knowledge of God enabling us, through the power of the Holy Spirit to transform our conduct from that of the world, to conform to the nature of Christ.

 

[JustHisKid]

i know what you mean .. but iv learned not to desire his judgment upon the word but his mercy ... that hearts may be changes ..that many more might become his righteousness in Christ Jesus and by his mercy in the lord JEsus escape the judgment that is coming upon the inhabitants of the earth .

you see we cannot desire judgment and its consequence AND both love them at the same time .(god can - we cant )

I disagree. I can be kind and loving to people and still desire God's judgement on the wicked earth.