Hummingbirds Disprove Creationism

[Dale]

A few facts and a conclusion:

Hummingbirds live in the Americas but not in the Old World of Europe, Africa or Asia.
There are hundreds of hummingbird species in South America but only 15 to 17 in North America.
Conclusion: It looks like hummingbirds evolved in South America.


The Creationist view:

According to Creationists, there were only two hummingbirds on earth when Noah and the Ark landed on Mt. Ararat, or the Ararat range. This happened a few thousand years ago.

If all the hummingbird species in the world are descended from two birds a few thousand years ago, we would expect the greatest number of species to be near the point of origin. Given that hummingbirds aren't evenly distributed throughout the world, we would expect the greatest number of species to be within one or two thousand miles of where they started. Perhaps it isn't surprising that these small birds haven't been able to colonize the entire world. Any creationist would expect to find the greatest variety of these birds near the Ararat range.


Question for the Creationists:
How did hummingbirds get to the Americas without passing through Asia?

 

[Dale]

“Hummingbirds live only in the Western Hemisphere, mostly in the tropical regions.”

World Book, 2005:
“The almost 340 species of hummingbirds are entirely restricted to the New World, where they can be found from Tierra Del Fuego to southern Alaska and from below sea level deserts to steamy tropical forests up to 16,000 feet in the Andes of South America.”


Link:
https://nationalzoo.si.edu/scbi/migratorybirds/webcam/hummingbirds.cfm



Quote

• Hummingbirds are only found naturally in the Americas.
  

• Hummingbirds are found as far north as Alaska.
  

• Hummingbirds are found as far south as Chile.
  

• Hummingbirds are the second largest family of birds in the Western Hemisphere.
  

• There are more than 300 types or species of hummingbirds.
  

• Most of the types or species of hummingbirds are found in South America.
  

• The county of Ecuador has the largest number of types or species of hummingbirds.
  

• There are more than fifty (50) types or species of hummingbirds that breed in Mexico.
  

• There are more than fifteen (15) types or species of hummingbirds that breed in the United States.
  

• There are more than three (3) types or species of hummingbirds that breed in Canada.

End Quote


Link:
http://www.worldofhummingbirds.com/facts.php


<< Range:
North, Central, and South America

Habitat:
Wide variety of habitats, from sea level up to 16,500 feet (5,000 meters) >>

Link:
http://animals.sandiegozoo.org/animals/hummingbird



“Birds are very important pollinators of wildflowers throughout the world. In the continental United States, hummingbirds are key in wildflower pollination. In other areas, honeycreepers (Hawaii) and honeyeaters (Australia) are important pollinators. In addition, brush-tongued parrots (New Guinea) and sunbirds (Old World tropics) serve as tropical pollen vectors.”

Link:
http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/pollinators/animals/birds.shtml



“There are well over three hundred species of hummingbirds, all native to the Americas. The vast majority, not surprisingly, are found in the tropics, where flowers abound year-round. Only a handful of species reach the United States; southern Arizona hosts more than a dozen of those.”

Link:
http://www.desertmuseum.org/books/nhsd_hummingbirds.php

 

[jacks]

Simple, they road on the back of dinosaurs.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

False:

Conclusion: It looks like hummingbirds evolved in South America.

False:

According to Creationists, there were only two hummingbirds on earth when Noah and the Ark landed on Mt. Ararat, or the Ararat range.

False:

If all the hummingbird species in the world are descended from two birds a few thousand years ago, we would expect the greatest number of species to be near the point of origin.

False:

Given that hummingbirds aren't evenly distributed throughout the world, we would expect the greatest number of species to be within one or two thousand miles of where they started.

False:

Any creationist would expect to find the greatest variety of these birds near the Ararat range.

Nothing.

 

[Rhapsody]

Do we know that the earliest hummingbirds were hummingbirds exactly as we know them?

Could the tendency of birds to migrate make things simpler? Or more complicated?

The Earliest hummingbird fossils as far as I know, have been found in Germany.

 

[crossnote]

False:
False:

False:

False:

False:


Nothing.

Seems like some never got further than false Sunday School images of just two by two...then stake their eternity on that misinfo...

Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate, and seven pairs of the birds of the heavens also, male and female, to keep their offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
(Gen 7:2-3)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Seems like some never got further than false Sunday School images of just two by two...then stake their eternity on that misinfo...

Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate, and seven pairs of the birds of the heavens also, male and female, to keep their offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
(Gen 7:2-3)

HAHAHAHA JOYOUS HEARTY GENTLE GREAT PEACE IN YHWH !

THANK YOU BROTHER, yes --- I didn't even think of any "facts" to try to counter the false. They aren't needed and no argument will be accepted by the false.

Like trying to prove there's no yellow elephants in Anchorage , Alaska - trying to "prove" all the false is false is an endless task, and no one is persuaded unless the FATHER grants it FROM HEAVEN. (and HE won't violate their free will to persuade them).

BUT it was and is A BIG SMILE AND GIANT BUTTERFLY OF JOY , your post....

I figured since we already know what is TRUE, and JESUS tells us what is false (HE is the SHEPHERD and our teacher) ,
that
spurious false -nesses like the op are already recognized as false simply due to the origin of it all, and the motives of it all, and the nature of it all.
(notice in other threads, the false is accepted quite readily ... MAYBE even (hopefully not so readily) by SHEEP who have been hurt so bad, it is not against them at all (no condemnation, no, not even a little), as there may be many 'reasons' YHWH allows them to believe something for a while or even all their life.... as needed for their survival, protection , healing, or even for no reason at all! YES, even for no reason at all, just to show HIS MERCY and HIS SOVEREIGNTY and that each and every one of us is saved only by SHEER GRACE ! and cannot hold a severe judgment against anyone else.

Rambling on again........ SHALOM TO ALL IN CHRIST JESUS!

Eventually everyone in HIM will know the TRUTH PERFECTLY.

 

[crossnote]

THANK YOU BROTHER, yes --- I didn't even think of any "facts" to try to counter the false. They aren't needed and no argument will be accepted by the false.

Well we can deposit what truth we do have and the rest might have to wait until...
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
(1Co 13:12)

 

[I Witness]

Did someone say extinction?

All humanity originated from one man. Yet they all look so different.

Tall, short, fat, slim, black, white, orange, red, blue, green, yellow.

All canines originated from one canine.
Yet they all look so different!

From one man the people's spread across the earth!

From one canine the canines spread across the earth.

But did someone say extinction? If a species becomes extinct in one region for whatever reason does that mean it will not thrive in another?

And this extinction somehow disproves creation?

 

[Armoured]

A few facts and a conclusion:

Hummingbirds live in the Americas but not in the Old World of Europe, Africa or Asia.
There are hundreds of hummingbird species in South America but only 15 to 17 in North America.
Conclusion: It looks like hummingbirds evolved in South America.


The Creationist view:

According to Creationists, there were only two hummingbirds on earth when Noah and the Ark landed on Mt. Ararat, or the Ararat range. This happened a few thousand years ago.

If all the hummingbird species in the world are descended from two birds a few thousand years ago, we would expect the greatest number of species to be near the point of origin. Given that hummingbirds aren't evenly distributed throughout the world, we would expect the greatest number of species to be within one or two thousand miles of where they started. Perhaps it isn't surprising that these small birds haven't been able to colonize the entire world. Any creationist would expect to find the greatest variety of these birds near the Ararat range.


Question for the Creationists:
How did hummingbirds get to the Americas without passing through Asia?

See also: how did penguins get to Antarctica? How did the entire Australian biota get there, without leaving any fossils or descendants along the route?

 

[Armoured]

The Earliest hummingbird fossils as far as I know, have been found in Germany.

Citation?

Do we know that the earliest hummingbirds were hummingbirds exactly as we know them?

If only there was a concise term to refer to a species' descendants gradually changing over time...

 

[ScottA]

• Osvaldo Nunez , Design & Trend
• Apr, 04, 2014, 10:27 PM

"Scientists have discovered that the hummingbird diversified into at least 338 species in just 22 million years.

"Lead by researchers from the University of California, Berkeley, the study showed that hummingbirds sit high above a family tree, and it detailed the creature's migration from Europe, Asia, and North America before settling in South America."

 

[I Witness]

22 000 000 000 count that. Lol.

 

[ScottA]

22 000 000 000 count that. Lol.

Time is an illusion.

 

[I Witness]

You said it. Billions of years for creation is an illusion.

 

[Armoured]

You said it. Billions of years for creation is an illusion.

Why? Because you say so?

 

[ScottA]

Why? Because you say so?

No, it was Einstein who said that time is an illusion.

 

[Armoured]

No, it was Einstein who said that time is an illusion.

Not the way you seem to mean. But anyhoo.

 

[ScottA]

Not the way you seem to mean. But anyhoo.

As time pertains to the topic of evolution...what I mean defines it perfectly:

We live in a world that was "created." Time was "created." Time was created within a realm where there is no time - and there still isn't...because it was [duh!] "created" - made up. It is not real...it is made up. Hence, Einsteins conclusion: "Time is an illusion, however a convincing one."

Combine some very simply biblical truths, such as: "The word of God", "everything comes in parables", "as it is written" and it doesn't take Einstein to see that there is no timeline to history...but rather a story line.

So, then, the really tough question for the really smart people...is: Does evolution [actually] exist within a short story book of fiction, even if the really smart characters in the book do a bunch of testing as say it does, and some of the other characters in the book believe it?

Be smart. Smarter.

 

[Dale]

• Osvaldo Nunez , Design & Trend
• Apr, 04, 2014, 10:27 PM

"Scientists have discovered that the hummingbird diversified into at least 338 species in just 22 million years.

"Lead by researchers from the University of California, Berkeley, the study showed that hummingbirds sit high above a family tree, and it detailed the creature's migration from Europe, Asia, and North America before settling in South America."

I didn't find your quote from the Osvaldo Nunez link.
I have no idea who you are quoting.
I'm not sure this is a good source for science news.

In my experience creationists do not identify a Biblical kind with a biological species.
They have suggested that a Biblical kind can be identified with a taxonomic family.

Hummingbirds compose the taxonomic family Trochilidae.
If you're going to go further up the ladder than that, we're not talking about the same creature.