Humanism

[Eudaimonist]

I think I have pushed enough and I can draw conclusion now: Humanism is humanism. There is no difference in the core idea between this humanism and that humanism. It is the same as that the Methodist and the Baptist are both Christians. For a humanist, he does not care if a Christian is a Methodist or a Baptist. And as a Christian, I don't think any kind of humanism has any difference.

Yes, that's right.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[brightlights]

If so, Christian ethics is seriously flawed.

Perhaps a brief defense of Christianity's claim would be appropriate:

From a western, individualistic perspective it's certainly possible to be self-focused without negatively affecting anyone else. The problem with this perspective is that it is wrong. You are not simply an individual that can be understood by itself. You can only function and be understood in relation to others. You are a part of the human community.

Everything that you have has been given to you. Nothing that you have is yours by rights nor did you earn it. You did not give yourself life -- that came from your parents. You were given an education. You were taught to read. You've been given the mental and emotional faculties that enable you to learn and develop. You've been given the ability to perform whatever tasks enable you to generate income. You can't think of a single thing that you possess that came from yourself and wasn't given to you by nature or by someone else.

Furthermore, you've been given quite a bit more than most people in history and across the planet have been given. It's not fair that you would be given more than another human being. You have a choice about what you're going to do with what you've been given. If you choose to use the wealth that's been given to you to focus on and benefit yourself you are perpetuating injustice in the world. Therefore, your self-focus is always at the expense of others.

So to put it in propositional form:

1. Everything that you have has been given to you
2. You are equally valuable with all other people
3. You've been given much more than most people
4. This is an injustice
5. Because this is unjust you have a responsibility to use your resources to benefit others
6. Therefore to use your resources to benefit the self is at the expense of others

Where do you take issue?

 

[Eudaimonist]

You are not simply an individual that can be understood by itself. You can only function and be understood in relation to others.

While I agree with you that a human individual cannot be fully understood except as a social being, a human individual cannot be fully understood without understanding individuals have individual lives, and are not merely cogs in the machine of society.

Everything that you have has been given to you.

It's bad enough when Obama makes such gaffs...

What you are saying here is simply not true. Every human individual is a creator of values. We don't merely inherit -- we transform. We don't merely sit in class -- we study. It's true that we benefit in various ways from others, but we create as individuals, with our own individual minds, initiative, effort, choice, creativity, talent, dedication, risk, drive, and with our own individual well-being at stake.

Nothing that you have is yours by rights nor did you earn it.

Complete nonsense, as you will see.

You did not give yourself life -- that came from your parents.

But I do create my character, and in so doing create my destiny.

You were given an education.

No, I put effort into studying, and I also happen to read outside of anything I had studied in school.

You were taught to read.

And I improved my reading skills by reading entirely on my own.

You've been given the mental and emotional faculties that enable you to learn and develop.

And I've made good use of those faculties through my own choice and effort, earning my development.

You've been given the ability to perform whatever tasks enable you to generate income.

And my experiences owning and programming my Apple 2+ home computer in high school on my own drive and initiative prepared me so well for college that I was able to skip three introductory level programming courses.

I was given a computer. I gave myself skill in computer programming.

You can't think of a single thing that you possess that came from yourself and wasn't given to you by nature or by someone else.

I can think of plenty of things!

Furthermore, you've been given quite a bit more than most people in history and across the planet have been given. It's not fair that you would be given more than another human being.

What does fairness have to do with anything?

You have a choice about what you're going to do with what you've been given. If you choose to use the wealth that's been given to you to focus on and benefit yourself you are perpetuating injustice in the world. Therefore, your self-focus is always at the expense of others.

There is no injustice there. I don't steal anything from anyone else because I was given something. I do not owe anything to anyone else simply because they claim to have been given less.

Also, there is an incredible vagueness here about who owes who what. Maybe I did owe my parents for buying me that Apple 2+ computer. They bought it for me to further my education. I paid them in full, because I took full advantage of that opportunity. Indeed, I exceeded their expectations, so I paid them for their investment in me plus interest. And they paid Apple for their product in money. I don't owe you or anyone else even one red cent because I happened to have been given a computer. It has all been paid for.

It would only be the case that a self-focus is at the expense of others if I owed it to others not to have a self-focus. You have done nothing to show this.

So to put it in propositional form:

1. Everything that you have has been given to you
2. You are equally valuable with all other people
3. You've been given much more than most people
4. This is an injustice
5. Because this is unjust you have a responsibility to use your resources to benefit others
6. Therefore to use your resources to benefit the self is at the expense of others

Where do you take issue?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

I consider this argument to be a very black evil -- it is rotten to the core -- but I will not hold Christianity accountable. It strikes me as arising from some collectivist doctrine. At least in Christianity people are saved or not as individuals.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I would just like to say that humanism is based on one's anthropology (i.e. ones view of the nature of humankind). So I suppose mistakes in the latter can lead to mistakes in the former.

 

[brightlights]

What you are saying here is simply not true. Every human individual is a creator of values.

I'm not sure what this means.

But I do create my character, and in so doing create my destiny.

Your character has mostly been created by your parents, your biology, your circumstances, and those who've influenced you for good or ill.

No, I put effort into studying, and I also happen to read outside of anything I had studied in school.

How did you come to the belief that reading and studying is important?

And I improved my reading skills by reading entirely on my own.

This is a gross overstatement. How could you have improved these reading skills without reading the works of other people? Also the biology that you possess that gives you the potential for these reading skills has come to you as a gift. You didn't make it.

And I've made good use of those faculties through my own choice and effort, earning my development.

You certainly have cultivated the raw material that's been given to you, but to take credit for your development in the way that you're doing is either ignorance or denial.

I was given a computer. I gave myself skill in computer programming.

How can you give yourself something you don't have?

There is no injustice there. I don't steal anything from anyone else because I was given something. I do not owe anything to anyone else simply because they claim to have been given less.

Does a King born into wealth and power have any responsibility because of his good fortune?

Also, there is an incredible vagueness here about who owes who what. Maybe I did owe my parents for buying me that Apple 2+ computer. They bought it for me to further my education. I paid them in full, because I took full advantage of that opportunity. Indeed, I exceeded their expectations, so I paid them for their investment in me plus interest. And they paid Apple for their product in money. I don't owe you or anyone else even one red cent because I happened to have been given a computer. It has all been paid for.

Because you are computer savvy you have an amazing ability to succeed in this world. You are computer savvy because you worked hard at learning how to use computers. You worked hard at learning how to use computers because you were born in a socio-economic situation that gave you this opportunity. This was entirely outside of your control. Most people on the planet have not been given this opportunity. You enjoy the benefits of fortuitous situations outside of your control and others suffer from unfortunate situations outside of their control. There's no good reason why you should benefit and others suffer in this way. But because you have been born in a fortuitous situation you've been given an immense amount of power. You can either use that power to advance yourself and perpetuate injustice or you can use that power to seek justice at the expense of self. Your choice.

I consider this argument to be a very black evil -- it is rotten to the core -- but I will not hold Christianity accountable. It strikes me as arising from some collectivist doctrine. At least in Christianity people are saved or not as individuals.

By all means hold Christianity accountable. It holds a more collectivist view of the world than the west does. Just know that it's not my opinions that you hate, but Christian theology as a whole. Nietzsche understood this and it's why he found Judeo-Christian theology abhorrant.

Christian theology tends to focus more on the fact that God is saving a people, not just individual persons.

 

[Eudaimonist]

17 Year-Old Invents Less Invasive Test For Breast Cancer | Giant Freakin Robot

Brittany, completely self taught, created an artificial neural network that can learn from experiences and mistakes. She then taught it to classify problems far better than humans by giving the artificial intelligence a stream of data from fine needle aspirates, which is the least invasive form of biopsy. The program is so sensitive that it can detect malignancies 99.1 percent of the time, and with more data coming in, the success rate continues to increase. She hopes that someday her program will be used in hospitals, and plans to fine-tune it until it is ready.

You have to give Brittany props for patience and determination: she ran 7.6 million trials, and spent 600 hours coding. In addition, she began teaching herself programming in seventh grade, when she became interested in artificial intelligence. She plans to pursue that passion, and to combine it with cancer research as well as becoming a pediatric oncologist.


eudaimonia,

Mark