How would you prove the Universe is old?

[Sanguis]

Not because of God...but sin.

God warned them not to eat it.

As has been said before, they had absolutely no idea what the consequences would be. God didn't show them, there's no possible way they could've known the suffering it'd cause.

On the other hand, why put the tree there in the first place, when you're omnipotent and know that they'll take a bit of a nibble?

Why punish the rest of humanity, and all other animal life on the planet, just because of the curiosity (That you had the power to satisfy without them having to find out for themselves.) of two people?

Why would an omnipotent, omnipresent, all-loving entity ever create a world in which the creations he allegedly loved so much have to suffer so badly?

This doesn't even scratch the surface of the vast amounts of illogical nonsense contained in Genesis.

 

[AV1611VET]

On the other hand, why put the tree there in the first place, when you're omnipotent and know that they'll take a bit of a nibble?

Where should He have put the tree?

 

[Sanguis]

Where should He have put the tree?

Behind a 50' high, 20" thick concrete fence, if he knew they were going to eat from it.

Or better still, why would an omnipotent, all-loving God need it in the first place?

 

[CoderHead]

Where should He have put the tree?

He should never have created it in the first place! The tree had absolutely no good use whatsoever, did it? Any contact the humans had with the tree would result in their demise, and that of all mankind, as well as the need for God to murder His son. What sense does it make to have even created the tree, let alone place it in the middle of the garden?

Wow. Seriously.

 

[laconicstudent]

Hi, AV1611VET! Thank you for your welcome of me into this forum; I appreciate it!

No, I can't think of any thing older; I just meant that I believe it to be only 6,000 years old, as compared to believing it to be billions of years old (as many people believe). No, there is definitely nothing older than that! LOL Well, except God, of course; who never had a beginning!

I love your user name, by the way!

And the Göbekli Tepe temple in Turkey apparently...

Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

 

[Sanguis]

And the Göbekli Tepe temple in Turkey apparently...

Huh? What is the "Gobekli Temple" in Turkey, and what does it have to do with any thing I wrote?

Laconic provided you with a link...


If you can't be bothered to read it, then don't ask questions about things that are answered in the link.

 

[laconicstudent]

And the Göbekli Tepe temple in Turkey apparently...

Huh? What is the "Gobekli Temple" in Turkey, and what does it have to do with any thing I wrote?

Clearly, you missed the link. Here it is again. Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

"Soils and soil sediments at Göbekli Tepe, southeastern Turkey: A preliminary report" Konstantin Pustovoytov. Institut für Bodenkunde und Standortslehre. Stuttgart, Germany. Geoarchaeology. Volume 21, Issue 7. September 6, 2006. Pages 699 - 719.

AbstractA pedological investigation at Göbekli Tepe, a Pre-Pottery Neolithic (PPN) site in the northern Fertile Crescent (southeastern Turkey), was undertaken to gain a better understanding of its chronology and paleoenvironments. A catena at the southern slope of the central mound suggests that complex pedosedimentary processes took place at the surface of the mound after the abandonment of the site. Soil formation resulted in a markedly dark Ah horizon and a Bk horizon with secondary carbonate accumulations; both hold promise as sources of chronological and paleoecological information. Three fossil Ah horizons from the PPN period were found within the fill. One of them provided a 14C age of 8880 ± 60 yr B.P. (on humic acids) that may approximate the time of abandonment. 14C dating of the oldest microlamina of pedogenic carbonate gave two new dates: 7450 ± 80 yr B.P. for a PPNB context and 6405 ± 70 yr B.P. for a post-PPNB context. These dates have to be considered as well-estimated minimum ages of the contexts.

This in response to:

No, I can't think of any thing older; I just meant that I believe it to be only 6,000 years old, as compared to believing it to be billions of years old (as many people believe). No, there is definitely nothing older than that!

Now you can think of something older then 6,000 years, and this is even a human-built structure.

 

[AV1611VET]

Behind a 50' high, 20" thick concrete fence, if he knew they were going to eat from it.

Then what would happen when technology advanced sufficiently enough that they could scale that fence and eat of it?

Or better still, why would an omnipotent, all-loving God need it in the first place?

He should never have created it in the first place! The tree had absolutely no good use whatsoever, did it? Any contact the humans had with the tree would result in their demise, and that of all mankind, as well as the need for God to murder His son. What sense does it make to have even created the tree, let alone place it in the middle of the garden?

Wow. Seriously.

You want something to "Wow. Seriously."?

Wow. Seriously. this: 34.

 

[Sanguis]

Then what would happen when technology advanced sufficiently enough that they could scale that fence and eat of it?http://www.christianforums.com/t7243488-4/#post47250911

It wouldn't.

Why would they have any need for better technology?

 

[Split Rock]

I don't think reducing Adam and Eve to ignoramuses is the way to go here.

God certainly didn't treat them as such.

1. Adam was Perfect
2. To be Perfect in God's eyes is to be "Child-like" (According to you)
3. Adam did not have the knowledge of Good and Evil
4. Adam did not even know he was naked
5. Conclusion: Adam was child-like
6. Conclusion: God gave all of his dominion of earth to a child, then punished him and all his descendants because he acted like a child.

 

[Split Rock]

Then what would happen when technology advanced sufficiently enough that they could scale that fence and eat of it?

You are not seriously suggesting that God could not have kept the Angel-Food Tree away from Adam... are you?

 

[Sanguis]

You are not seriously suggesting that God could not have kept the Angel-Food Tree away from Adam... are you?

Yeah, he can keep a massive, balsa wood ark afloat, filled with 2 of every "kind" of animal, but he can't keep two people away from a tree - that has no reason for being there in the first place.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. Adam was Perfect
2. To be Perfect in God's eyes is to be "Child-like" (According to you)
3. Adam did not have the knowledge of Good and Evil
4. Adam did not even know he was naked
5. Conclusion: Adam was child-like
6. Conclusion: God gave all of his dominion of earth to a child, then punished him and all his descendants because he acted like a child.

Suit yourself, Split Rock; but I contend that the punishment they received says your point #3 is assuming too much.

Adam and Eve walked with God for about a year before the Fall, and I can only assume they knew it was wrong.

That means that for a year, they didn't even touch that fruit, until the dragon lied to Eve.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are not seriously suggesting that God could not have kept the Angel-Food Tree away from Adam... are you?

I didn't say, Adam.

What about his great-great-great-great-great-great grandson or granddaughter?

Someone would have eventually eaten of it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, he can keep a massive, balsa wood ark afloat, filled with 2 of every "kind" of animal, but he can't keep two people away from a tree - that has no reason for being there in the first place.

Sanguis, let me ask you a straightforward question.

Are you incapable of looking at this scenario without seeing anything other than what you want to see?

I'm getting the feeling, and forgive me please if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the feeling that you can't see beyond your own preconceived ideas here.

If God would have kept two people away from a tree, what would have happened when eventually there were two billion people?

 

[Sanguis]

Sanguis, let me ask you a straightforward question.

Are you incapable of looking at this scenario without seeing anything other than what you want to see?

I'm getting the feeling, and forgive me please if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the feeling that you can't see beyond your own preconceived ideas here.

You are wrong. I'm always open to learning new things, even if what I learn is contradictory to what I previously thought.

However, I see no reason why I should accept your ideas, they're simply absurd, ridiculous and don't have a shred of anything except a bronze age story book to back them up.

If God would have kept two people away from a tree, what would have happened when eventually there were two billion people?

Then he can keep two billion people away from the tree.

He's omnipotent, right?

For someone with that much power, keeping two billion people away from the tree wouldn't be any harder than keeping two people away from the tree, or any easier than keeping 200bn people away.

Edit: Not that it matters, I mean... he couldn't even keep two people away from it...

 

[AV1611VET]

For someone with that much power, keeping two billion people away from the tree wouldn't be any harder than keeping two people away from the tree, or any easier than keeping 200bn people away.

I don't have time to address this right now, but try (emphasis on try) to understand how making Adam (not any of his offspring) the federal head of a sinful human race was the best way to go.

And I'll address this later.

 

[Wedjat]

So God purposefully created a sinful race?

 

[Split Rock]

Suit yourself, Split Rock; but I contend that the punishment they received says your point #3 is assuming too much.

How so? It was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, was it not? Did Adam gain the knowledge of how to play soccer by eating its fruit??

Adam and Eve walked with God for about a year before the Fall, and I can only assume they knew it was wrong.

That means that for a year, they didn't even touch that fruit, until the dragon lied to Eve.

Wherever did you get the idea that they were in the Garden for a year before eating the forbidden fruit??

I didn't say, Adam.

What about his great-great-great-great-great-great grandson or granddaughter?

Someone would have eventually eaten of it.

Not if God didn't want them to. Besides, He could have put the tree someplace far away... like Neptune. It would have been a good palce for the tree. Any angels who came by and were diverted from earth by all that frozen water, could have gotten a bite to eat before going back to the stars.

 

[Split Rock]

double post