How would you handle......

[StogusMaximus]

What would you do if you had a "troublemaker" in your church?

At my old church we had a member that was disruptive during sermons, and bible study. He made outrageous points. He would talk over the pastor.

He was also very dedicated to the church. He never missed a service. He was always the first to arrive and the last to leave.

Several times the pastor and the senior member of the church sat down with him and explained they appreciated his commitment and his enthusiasm, but he was being really disruptive. These talks never seem to accomplish anything.

We were a small church and had very few members and were constantly trying to get new members. We had several visit but never joined and part of the reason they decided not to join was because of this one member.

After lots of prayer and heartache the pastor and the senior member asked this person to leave the church. This really hurt the pastor, but everyone agreed it was for the good of the church.

Do you think these actions are correct? How would you handle the situation?

 

[JohnR7]

>>Several times the pastor and the senior member of the church sat down with him and explained

Several times is not enough, some people like me are slow learners. I remember once a boss was trying to explain to me how to fill out an invoice. He said this is the fifth time I have showed you and I will continue to show you tell you get it. He never had to show me again after that. But I know there are people who learn in one, two or three repeats, but for me, it can take as many as 5 or 7 times before I get it.

There are things the pastor in our church will repeat 100, 200 times. There are things in the Bible that are repeated 2 or 3,000 times & I still had people who will try to tell me it's not in the Bible at all. We are just slow of learning. Thank God He is patient with me. I would have given up on me a long time ago. I just do not have the patience God has, but I am getting there, line upon line, precept upon precept. A little bit here and a little bit there. Thanks, JohnR7

 

[StogusMaximus]

By several times I was refering to 7 or 10 times.

These "sit downs" with this person were not to get him to understand a topic or a procedure, they were to get him to behave.

Should he have been given 300 times to learn to behave?

Would it have been the right thing to do by keeping this member in the church and lose all the other members?

 

[StogusMaximus]

Hey John,

Is that your boy, or do you just look really young for your age?

That is quite a smile ...

 

[FOMWatts<><]

Running a member off is never fun and I personally do not think that this situation was handled correctly. A man like that is waiting to be humbled by
God and when he is he can be a great asset to a congregation, but we musn't put time limits on God. In my opinion a continual prayer would have been affective here, and continual meaning until he changed.
A similar situation happened to my dad, only he wasn't disruptive. My dad was a loyal member of a church down the road form our house. He decied to join the NAVY during times of the Vietnam Conflict, and the church turned their back on him. They told him he was no longer welcome at church. This scarred my dad horribly, and he didn't understand how a gorup that supposedly loved him dearly could stop due to service to our country. Well now my dad is still faithful to God, but is out of fellowship with the church. He strongly dislikes attending church becasue all he can see are images of those that stabbed him in the back before. Though he knows he is not perfect he dislikes the politics of the church.

Your church may have scarred this man much the same way my dad has been scarred. My advice for your church is to plead with the man to come back and express your apologies to him. No one should be turned away from a church, but instead possibly counciled by the elders or deacons of the church body. This is only my opinion!

FOMWatts<><

 

[StogusMaximus]

I was not an active participant in this process, so I do not have all the details of the situation. I am posting what I know.

This man was counciled by the elders and the pastor of the church. He was not asked to do anything that was beyond his power. He was not asked to do anything that was against his nature, he was simply asked to keep quite during the service, and then he could discuss whatever he wanted after the service.

He refused to do so and was asked to leave. This was not a light, simple decision by anybody. The pastor is probably the kindest most holy human I have ever met. I was a witness to the toll this decision took on him.

Another question.

The total membership of this chuch was 12 people including the pastor. If keeping a troublemaker in your church meant that the other members would leave, what would you do? If even a few of the members left, the church would disolve. What is the right thing to do?

Is it more important to keep the church alive and growing, or to have the church destroied by one person?

 

[zamar]

There must be order in the church. If this individual was a destraction and was keeping the church from growing, then he should have been shown the door.

It is one thing to be disruptive in a bible study but when it keeps people away,

"Out the door or through the window"

Z

 

[WhitBit]

Tough call...but I agree with FOMWatts. If Jesus has called us to forgive others infinitely and to love others unconditionally, and you feel strongly that your church was dedicated to God's will, then nothing was gained, only lost, by dismissing this guy.

God will bless any committment to His love beyond our imagination - perhaps, when the church dwindled down to three members, some serious change might have been brought about within the man...and THEN it might have grown by leaps and bounds And maybe not...but the point is that the church would have acted in love, in accordance with God's unconditional, unending love and understanding. Not something to be taken lightly

Of course, the church isn't responsible for the man's reluctance to become involved in any other church from here on out...but considering the preciousness of every soul to Jesus, I think the decision could've been made in a different direction.

 

[StogusMaximus]

What would have been the more appropriate solutions?

 

[RayNay714]

Hey, doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible that we are to go after the one lost sheep. My dad is a youth pastor and I know what it means to have disruptive people in youth. We have a small youth group that can run anywhere from 20-40 students, and we meet in a small chior room. Disrupptions occur all of the time, and even when the youth go in the sanctuary they are still loud and rude. What we do in youth is have one of the youth sponsors watch for disrupptions and if anyone acts up they are taken outside. They get three chances and after the third cahnce their parents are called, and if nothing else will help they will be taken into talk to pastor. My question is, how old is this man, and does he have any learning disabilities, or is he just rude, that can have a lot to do with it to... The best thing to do is pray and counseling is another thing, the only way I would think would be a reason to ask someone to leave the church is if they were teaching false doctrines or were a danger to the other members of the congregation.
RayNay

 

[StogusMaximus]

This was a man in his late twenties or early thirties. I believe the pastor had a discussion with his family and he did not have any mental disorders. It was my understanding that he was just a normal guy, with a disruptive attitude.

I am thankful that I did not have to make the decision to ask him to leave. I stuggled with the scripture you stated.

"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety­nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? " Luke 15:4

I don't know what the correct answer is.

 

[WhitBit]

I doubt many DO have the answers, Stogus ...and what's done is done...all I can think to say is to pray about the situation and maybe attempt to (or advise someone else) to somehow make amends with the man...God is not willing than anyone should perish - and I have an idea of how I would feel if my church gave me the boot for any reason.

 

[InspectorVol]

Without being there it is hard to say but it seems he just wanted to be contentious and the center of attention instead of conducting himself properly. If he would not change then he had no choice but to ask him to leave. He would have destoyed your congregation if left alone and that in my mind means he wasn't there for the lord but only for himself.

 

[Devoted Warrior]

re:
After lots of prayer and heartache the pastor and the senior member asked this person to leave the church. This really hurt the pastor, but everyone agreed it was for the good of the church.

Do you think these actions are correct? How would you handle the situation?


No, a 1,000x no. I feel it was the personal agenda of the pastor to rationalize and justify chasing away a person you said was faithful, the first to arrive and the last to leave. He was dedicated and never missed a service.

Actually it makes me feel totally sick. I believe he was pushed directly onto that long, slow, slippery slope toward Satan, and forgive me, but I believe there is NO excuse for that.

Offense and irritation and justification and rationalization are always the bait of Satan.

I am sorry I read this, for it just breaks my heart.

In Him,
nancy

 

[edjones]

If this one sheep was preventing the other sheep from being fed,
then yes, but a tough decision.

 

[kobebryantswissh]

how would you handle a son that wants and needs to get out of school? My son, derek, has never done well in school and needs to get out. I want to get him out too, but i'm not sure how to do it. Derek loves computers and web design. He is a computer genius! Please give me some advice.

 

[Mandy]

Even though this a hard thing that should be done prayerfully, I believe the right thing was done.

 

[StogusMaximus]

kobebryantswissh,

Do you mind going into the details on why he needs out of school?

 

[Martin]

StogusMaximus - on the basis of what you have described, I believe that your pastor and elders have acted correctly and in line with scripture.

The real issue is the spirit that is operating behind what is happening. Disruption tends to be a mark of enemy activity and if you truly do have a caring and loving pastor I'm confident that if it was anything else then it might have been handled differently.

Your pastor and elders are responsible for their care of the flock and I think they would have been delinquent in discharging that responsibility if they had done anything different.

Blessings....
Martin