• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How would you define my beliefs?

Ultima4257

Regular Member
Aug 15, 2005
415
28
In my house, somewhere in the world
✟34,106.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Hello,

I would like to say to everyone here that I have come to the realization that I am no longer a christian. I am unsure though what I am considered since I still do believe in the God of christianity, I just refuse to follow Him. So what would I be considered as? Pagan or something else?
 

Ultima4257

Regular Member
Aug 15, 2005
415
28
In my house, somewhere in the world
✟34,106.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
You know what, now that I have had a chance to reflect on this I don't think it really matters. I guess I am just an average guy who doesn't know what to believe.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ultima4257

Regular Member
Aug 15, 2005
415
28
In my house, somewhere in the world
✟34,106.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
What made you turn pagan? I admit Im sorry to hear this.

Different things. The concept of eternal punishment is a major one and different things I have read in the bible. I still believe in Him and the gospel message though and if He wants to correct me on my beliefs I welcome it. I just cannot continue to follow Him in my present state. Thank you for caring. :)
 
Upvote 0

Johnnz

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2004
14,082
1,003
84
New Zealand
✟119,551.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Probably some intelligent, well presented teaching would give you a better grasp on what belief entails and how satisfying it really is. You may need to transition from a baby faith to an adult one in terms of understanding (that is not meant to be negative in any way, just what you have been fed with).

Feel free to PM me if you want some suggestions.

John
NZ
 
Upvote 0

Ultima4257

Regular Member
Aug 15, 2005
415
28
In my house, somewhere in the world
✟34,106.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Probably some intelligent, well presented teaching would give you a better grasp on what belief entails and how satisfying it really is. You may need to transition from a baby faith to an adult one in terms of understanding (that is not meant to be negative in any way, just what you have been fed with).

Feel free to PM me if you want some suggestions.

John
NZ

I sent you a PM. Thank you for your help.
 
Upvote 0

Ultima4257

Regular Member
Aug 15, 2005
415
28
In my house, somewhere in the world
✟34,106.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Is it possible you just need to be exposed to better teaching?

Perhaps. However, I find it hard that any teaching would change my mind regarding that topic. If you can refer me to something though, I will check it out.
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes I do see this as a problem.

Good! So now we know you are not a reprobate. God has NOT given up on you, nor turned you over to satan. (Thought that might be a good thing to know?)

Perhaps. However, I find it hard that any teaching would change my mind regarding that topic. If you can refer me to something though, I will check it out.


Ok, DISCLAIMER: I received not only a vision, but a physical experience in/with hell. Nearly 30 years later, I have become agnostic about it. I am NOT teaching anything about it, one way or the other!

I can, with the help of many here on CF, look back on that experience and see that God was indeed trying to show me some things I was missing. (You can read the thread if you want) All this is entirely distinct from the rest of this post

_________________________________________________________________

As it so happens, there were (I think) 5 different theological schools in Christianity's earliest days. Only 3 of them taught eternal hell, and I'm not sure how many, if any, of those taught it was conscious eternal torment. So we see that there has NEVER been any monolithic stance on this!?!

Tough to explain in our lifetime, isn't it? The only thing that makes sense to me, is that what Jesus taught on the subject, was exactly what the Jews of His day considered hell to be. Do we see Him defining it as anything else? No we do not.

Jews of His day held that it was a refining process, that no one would need to spend more than a year in. And that's for the vilest of ALL. Now where Christian doctrine parts ways with that, is that "all judgment has been given to the Son." He could, if He chose, sentence anyone to that long, or longer.

I think this is exquisite, because He is the One who procured our redemption! If anyone would say it doesn't apply to us, shouldn't He alone have that right?
 
Upvote 0

Ronald

Exhortations
Site Supporter
Jul 30, 2004
4,620
981
southern
✟111,578.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Perhaps. However, I find it hard that any teaching would change my mind regarding that topic. If you can refer me to something though, I will check it out.

Traditional teaching of eternal Hell is a turn off to me as well. I wrote two chapters in my book addressing the nature of Hell. I purposedly named it "Hell ... If I Know!" I am not a SDA who also do not believe in eternal Hell but a finale destruction in the Lake of Fire. They believe in soul sleep which I don't believe in. Nevertheless, they are respected as a Christian church. The soul who does not put his faith in Christ enters into Hades -- which is not Hell as many are confused about. In Rev. 20:14, death and hades and thrown into the lake of fire (hell / gehenna) with all who do not believe in Christ and are destroyed.
Destroy means to put an end to. You cannot destroy something for eternity. That would be and indestructable destruction or deathless death which are contradictions. Tradition has assigned an eternal state to these words that should not be.
All former things created will pass away. Only those in Christ, Who is eternal will live eternally. He inhabits eternity! So, it is a state of being rather than a time line measured. Time is a physical dimension and is measured by the rotation of the earth and the sun, etc.
Eternity is an English word from the word aeon or aeonios which means an age or ages, lifetime(s), generation(s), the world, an epoch of time, etc. When it is used to describe God, heaven or our salvation, it means eternal. But when it describes temporal things that will someday pass away, it does not mean eternal and should translate as age or ages. If you read Youngs Literal Translation, you will find he translates the words more correctly. Hades is temporal and so it will pass away. Death itself will pass away. Tears, pain and suffering will pass away. These are all former things. (see Rev. 21:4)
Many people are on the fense because of this concept of eternal hell. Why would God sustain billions of souls suffering in pain and torment forever? Is that something that would glorify Him? Some die young and so eternal damnation is justifiable for a sinning for a decade or so? I don't think God has shown us that kind of justice throughout scripture. We see justice and it is fair and for a time. No where in scripture do we see unfair justice. It is equally proportionate to the crimes committed ... but has and end to it. In our justice system, things aren't perfect but we do see fair justice. Back then, an eye for an eye, or even being enslaved for 400 years is understandable but eternal punishment does not stand on the pillars of justice that we've seen in the Bible or in life anywhere. Besides, Jesus came and the tone change: Forgiveness and mercy where the qualities that he wanted us to demonstrate. Love your enemies and forgive them ... and then what ... God will condemn them to hell later forever? I have a problem with that.

The point is, you don't have to believe in eternal hell to believe in Jesus who offers eternal life! It's not a required essential. If I am wrong, I'll still get in and He'll correct me. Just put your faith in Christ to save your soul from destruction -- whether it's eternal or not!
 
Upvote 0

briareos

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2011
4,254
267
Fort Bragg, NC
✟6,085.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Hello,

I would like to say to everyone here that I have come to the realization that I am no longer a christian. I am unsure though what I am considered since I still do believe in the God of christianity, I just refuse to follow Him. So what would I be considered as? Pagan or something else?

Pagan isn't a word that defines everything that is spiritual but isn't Christian. I am not sure there is a label for what you have decided or considered about yourself, not that you need a "label" at all, not sure why everyone thinks they need a name or label... I think it just means they are afraid to walk alone, afraid to have to consider for their self, afraid to have to trust their own feelings or beliefs, afraid to not have some structure to cling to, some source of assurance when in reality I am not sure there is any anyway.

You believe what you believe and that should mean you believe it is the right thing to be... if you are exercising integrity and honor in those things or ideas.

If you lack the structure follow your heart, make the best decisions you can, consider the best you can and trust that you did was right... don't be afraid just because you have no one to trust but yourself. If you cannot do that and you can only trust in others... then you should never be sure of anything because you lack the ability to know or be confident in anything and you are just riding other peoples ideas.
 
Upvote 0

briareos

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2011
4,254
267
Fort Bragg, NC
✟6,085.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
So consider that there are things in the bible that many many people disagree on... there is no absolutely clear answer... YOU have to make a choice, judge yourself, decide what YOU believe for YOUR OWN reasons and trust in yourself and your reasons even though you have no proof, no one else to ease all your fears and worries and assure you that you can't be wrong... but you have to do it anyway...

Why is that so hard for people?
 
Upvote 0

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Site Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,822
3,122
Australia
Visit site
✟898,990.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi,

The fact is that Hell is real, the bible makes it very clear. The fact that you still believe in God should motivate you to avoid hell. God offers you salvation for free, and you can avoid it. The fact that you today can be free from damnation means that others also have that same offer. Don't get upset with God, just accept his mercy and love toward you today.

I look at all the good things God has done for me and it motivates me to follow God. I look to the fact that that mercy that was shown me will be shown others, and if people are to stupid to receive that mercy the punishment they receive will be justified. God is no respecter of persons, the same love he has shown me he will show others, otherwise he is not a just God.

If you do have any doubts about God read my website it contains stories of God doing miracles in my life Know God Personally
 
Upvote 0

thesunisout

growing in grace
Site Supporter
Mar 24, 2011
4,761
1,399
He lifts me up
✟205,051.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hello,

I would like to say to everyone here that I have come to the realization that I am no longer a christian. I am unsure though what I am considered since I still do believe in the God of christianity, I just refuse to follow Him. So what would I be considered as? Pagan or something else?

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

The greatness and wisdom of God is too large and too deep to fit into the smallness of our minds. This is why scripture tells us to lean not on our own understanding and trust in God with all of our heart. We cannot always understand why God might do something, but what we do understand is that we need to trust Him first. When we have placed our trust in Him, then we can ask God to lead us to the answers if that is His will.

What you're doing essentially is holding God hostage, saying that unless He explains Himself to you that you are going to withhold your love from Him. God isn't going to play your game; He has already proven His love for you beyond any reasonable doubt. That's why you still believe in Him, because you cannot deny His existence. He isn't going to be tested or held hostage by you. He is going to let you fully experience the consequences of your rebellion. It takes a very stubborn person to turn his back on the living God, and to that measure you will be disciplined. God cannot be mocked; you reap what you sow.

What you need to do is repent of your rebellion, rededicate yourself to Him, and then you can ask Him to help you understand these things. He loves you and wants you to come back. When you have given these things up to God, put them away and let God lead you in His own time and purpose. Trust Him first, and then you will receive understanding. To deny Him and rebel against Him is going to lead you into delusion. Once you step outside of the Lords protection, there is another who will be your lord. Satan has already been deceiving you; that's how you ended up here. Soon the wool will be completely pulled over your eyes, but you will think you are right. This isn't going to turn out well for you so turn back while there is still time. I will pray for you. God bless.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0