How would you argue your point to me given the following criteria?

[RealDeal]

Although I'd prefer to have this in GA so I could debate it, I don't have enough posts yet. But I would be interested in hearing your answers.

I'm an atheist, and take a keen interest in how believers respond the atheists' questions. One thing that always strikes me is how Christians use the bible to support their answers, or a quote from it as their answer itself. In my view, this is pointless, because I don't see the bible as fact, but rather a collection of stories and origin myths.

My question is, what points would you use against me and any other atheist in an effort to convince us that your point of view is correct, assuming that we consider the bible to be a human creation and just a collection of stories with no divine implications (and you can't change our minds about this)? The way I see it, this means you can't argue creation over evolution.

I can see an argument for the origin of the universe and/or of life in there, so if possible I'd like to hear other points as well.

P.S In case you didn't see it, I don't recommend using the bible as a source of debate points to use against an atheist

 

[Key]

What points would I use?

Well, the Value of life, the power of love, and deliverance of faith, and eternal Hope.

But I would not argue my point or stand. Heaven and Salvation and the Love of Christ, are free things, to be appreciated and accepted willingly, not something that should (or can) ever be forced upon another. You need to make the decision of your own accord.

God Bless

Key

 

[Dondi]

In the first place, you assume that all Christians are strict creationists. While there are those who take this view, other Christians have no problem with evolution, but see it as the method God brings life into this planet.

Number two, you hold that the bible is just a collection of stories and myths. Just because something is classified a myth doesn't necessarliy imply that there isn't some truth or validity to it.

Number three, The bible isn't the only thing that convinces us. We hold that God's truth is contained in the scriptures, but the real testamony is in our hearts and lives. We find the reality of God in our daily walk with Him and how He has changed our lives for the better. Many of us were delivered from lives of downward spirals that might have eventually destroyed us had not we sought God for intervention. Many of us were delivered from addictions that were eating us alive.

Many can testify to the change in the relationships with our friends and family and how God being in the center of our marriages and relationships with our children has made a dramatic difference.

We've learned how to love others, where we haven't been lovable, learned how to forgive each other, care for each other, pray for each other, tend to one another's needs, instead of our own selfish desires.

Well, you say, there are secular organizations and self-help courses to aid people in accomplishing all these things. Why would I need God?

Goody for them. If they can help people to be better and more loving and less selfish, then that's what God wants anyhow.

But there is a deeper dynamic in having a relationship with God that fundamentally different. We are bound by God's love, which I never before encountered before I came to Him. It is powerful and real. And out of that, there was hope and peace and joyfulness in myself that I lacked before, that I never found in myself. The love God has given me...I fail to convey in human words, but once you've experienced it, it is more than you could have imagined.

OK, maybe I'm delusional to you. That's alright. If it is a delusion, then it is a wonderful delusion, for is much more preferable than the crappy life I was living in before. And if I die and just become worm food, then it doesn't matter that it was a delusion, would it?

But then the bible gives hope of another life, even better than this one, which is why I'll bank on the "delusion". The other bank is empty.

 

[tapero]

Well, you say, there are secular organizations and self-help courses to aid people in accomplishing all these things. Why would I need God?

Goody for them. If they can help people to be better and more loving and less selfish, then that's what God wants anyhow.

Hi Dondi, Not to take apart what you wrote, but your second paragraph is not true, unless you were speaking of Christians.

 

[jasper123]

Although I'd prefer to have this in GA so I could debate it, I don't have enough posts yet. But I would be interested in hearing your answers.

I'm an atheist, and take a keen interest in how believers respond the atheists' questions. One thing that always strikes me is how Christians use the bible to support their answers, or a quote from it as their answer itself. In my view, this is pointless, because I don't see the bible as fact, but rather a collection of stories and origin myths.

My question is, what points would you use against me and any other atheist in an effort to convince us that your point of view is correct, assuming that we consider the bible to be a human creation and just a collection of stories with no divine implications (and you can't change our minds about this)? The way I see it, this means you can't argue creation over evolution.

I can see an argument for the origin of the universe and/or of life in there, so if possible I'd like to hear other points as well.

P.S In case you didn't see it, I don't recommend using the bible as a source of debate points to use against an atheist

cogito ergo sum is a good way, how do explaine the
cause of your presence? Just go from there all it
takes is reason
Ron

 

[Hackett]

In an effort to convince someone who does not believe in God and that He is real without using scripture I offer the following:

If you have ever known a person who was self-abosrbed, totally unconcerned about anyone but themselves, rebellious, hateful and bitter to suddenly have a TOTAL change of heart you would most surely take notice. I did/do know such a person.

The transformation was amazing both inwardly and outwardly. The reasoning for this change?

An athiest might say ' Oh it was simply a guilty concious.'

I say by the evidence (over time) that this person was truly changed speaks to more than a guilty concious. I see it (especially after witnessing the dramatic change in life style, attitude, and even in personality) as much more than a guilty concious. I see it as evidence of the saving work of God through the Holy Spirit and by the blood of Christ.

What evidence do I have? The results of the change and all the people that change has impacted over time.

The manner in which they conduct their daily life. The manner in which they treat others. The manner in which they conduct their business with others...... are they now perfect? By no means... they are however, a new creature in Christ.

 

[Dondi]

Hi Dondi, Not to take apart what you wrote, but your second paragraph is not true, unless you were speaking of Christians.

Why, whatever do you mean, tapero?

 

[Zeena]

Although I'd prefer to have this in GA so I could debate it, I don't have enough posts yet. But I would be interested in hearing your answers.

I'm an atheist, and take a keen interest in how believers respond the atheists' questions. One thing that always strikes me is how Christians use the bible to support their answers, or a quote from it as their answer itself. In my view, this is pointless, because I don't see the bible as fact, but rather a collection of stories and origin myths.

My question is, what points would you use against me and any other atheist in an effort to convince us that your point of view is correct, assuming that we consider the bible to be a human creation and just a collection of stories with no divine implications (and you can't change our minds about this)? The way I see it, this means you can't argue creation over evolution.

I can see an argument for the origin of the universe and/or of life in there, so if possible I'd like to hear other points as well.

P.S In case you didn't see it, I don't recommend using the bible as a source of debate points to use against an atheist

Reasearch the "Fifth Element" as it pertains to consciousness

 

[tapero]

Why, whatever do you mean, tapero?

Well, the world believes that if they are 'good' they will get to heaven. We know that's not true. God is calling people to salvation first. Being clean on the outside is nice, but without faith in Christ, they will perish. I hope that explains it.
Tapero

 

[Dondi]

Well, the world believes that if they are 'good' they will get to heaven. We know that's not true. God is calling people to salvation first. Being clean on the outside is nice, but without faith in Christ, they will perish. I hope that explains it.
Tapero

Love must be from the heart.

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." - Romans 13:8-10

Of course, when people realize just how much they fail at this perhaps they will realize that what is impossible for them is possible with God.

 

[tapero]

Love must be from the heart.

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." - Romans 13:8-10

Of course, when people realize just how much they fail at this perhaps they will realize that what is impossible for them is possible with God.

Oh, because of the 10 commandments for instance you are saying that God prefers man to be good. I guess with the first commandment, since they are not believers, that the goodness will do them no good. Won't harm them, but does not lead to eternal life.

There are plenty of good people out there, but as he spoke of the pharisees, they were good in appearance on the outside, but God knew their hearts were evil.

I don't think God wants the world to behave. That's why I quesitoned your quote. He wants us to believe in Jesus death, and resurrection. The world will behave during the millenial reign though, but I'm just saying that God's desire is to change the man from the inside out, not the outside in, which Im sure you would agree on.
Blessings, tapero

 

[Dondi]

Correctomundo!

 

[tapero]

Correctomundo!

Phew!

 

[hlaltimus]

Although I'd prefer to have this in GA so I could debate it, I don't have enough posts yet. But I would be interested in hearing your answers.

I'm an atheist, and take a keen interest in how believers respond the atheists' questions. One thing that always strikes me is how Christians use the bible to support their answers, or a quote from it as their answer itself. In my view, this is pointless, because I don't see the bible as fact, but rather a collection of stories and origin myths.

My question is, what points would you use against me and any other atheist in an effort to convince us that your point of view is correct, assuming that we consider the bible to be a human creation and just a collection of stories with no divine implications (and you can't change our minds about this)? The way I see it, this means you can't argue creation over evolution.

I can see an argument for the origin of the universe and/or of life in there, so if possible I'd like to hear other points as well.

P.S In case you didn't see it, I don't recommend using the bible as a source of debate points to use against an atheist

Well, if you narrow down to that kind of a criteria...How about:
"Dying Testimonies of Saved and Unsaved" by S. B. Shaw, first printed in 1898
Read this one, (and there is a copy of it on the internet,) if you have the nerve. If you believe that an athiest stands up everywhere just as well as a Christian does, you had better exclude the deathroom.