How would a TE look forward?

[gluadys]

Think about this from another angle: Does angel have a physical form in heaven? Would we have a physical form in heaven? Could we recognize who is angel and who is human in Heaven? If yes, then we MUST have a form there.

Yes, but it is not physical, so it probably does not have anything you can imagine as a physical shape. Paul calls it a spiritual body.

 

[juvenissun]

Yes, but it is not physical, so it probably does not have anything you can imagine as a physical shape. Paul calls it a spiritual body.

Spiritual body is a "body". A body has an identity and is most likely described by geometry. If there were no geometry of a body, then there will be no boundary of that body. Then bodies will be mixed and difficult to identify.

So, if you think we (and angels) will be formless, I think it is not a logic concept. We, in heaven, will still be similar to us with the current shape.

------------

By the way, I saw the movie WALL.E (it is recommended by the Geological Society of America). It describes the future shape of human being as a potato (due to evolutional change, I guess). Quite interesting.

 

[juvenissun]

If the bible does speak of God's physical form, what does it tell us about it?
Psalm 17:8 hide me in the shadow of your wings...

Do you think you would recognise the invisible God by his shape?

Good question. God is invisible anywhere. But Jesus is visible. Whom would we see in the Heaven? Would it not be the physically visible Jesus?

 

[Assyrian]

But don't forget this is because he went and took on our form.

Phil 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

 

[Joykins]

I've read some things to indicate that the early Christians thought Jesus's post-resurrection body was the kind of body that resurrected Christians would have. It's an interesting thought.

 

[juvenissun]

But don't forget this is because he went and took on our form.

Phil 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

This brings up my another thought:

Jesus took our form because He wants to be one of us on earth. Now His mission is over and the form of human to God should be a thing of the past. Why do many Christians still think we will see Jesus as a human form in Heaven (It seems that this is said at several places in the Scripture)? Why would God still want to take a human form in the Heaven? The only reason I can think of is that the human form is the preferred form of God. It is an excellent form. (can't resist this: So, the form of ape is NOT good enough).

 

[gluadys]

Spiritual body is a "body". A body has an identity and is most likely described by geometry.

A physical body can be described by geometry. I don't think we can make that assumption about a spiritual body. It has no "geo" (i.e. earth, dust, the stuff the physical body is made of) to measure.

If there were no geometry of a body, then there will be no boundary of that body. Then bodies will be mixed and difficult to identify.

You think shape is the only way to identify different spirits? How about tone of voice, temperature, vibratory frequency, aura, magnetic resonance? (Actually all of those are physical too, but if we have so many ways other than shape to identify physical entities, there are surely as many or more analogous ways to identify spirits without relying on their geometry.)

 

[gluadys]

This brings up my another thought:

Jesus took our form because He wants to be one of us on earth. Now His mission is over and the form of human to God should be a thing of the past. Why do many Christians still think we will see Jesus as a human form in Heaven (It seems that this is said at several places in the Scripture)? Why would God still want to take a human form in the Heaven? The only reason I can think of is that the human form is the preferred form of God. It is an excellent form. (can't resist this: So, the form of ape is NOT good enough).

I am no expert in Eastern Orthodox thought, but their take on this as I understand it is interesting. They hold that Jesus (divinity) became human so that humanity could be divinized (united with God.) And they go further. God's ultimate purpose is not just to unite humanity with God, but all of creation. This is the "glory" to which creation aspires as described by Paul in Romans.

From the Anglican tradition, John Polkinghorne adds another insight. Asked about the concept of panentheism, he said it was his opinion that this did not describe the current relation of God and creation, but the relation which would come to be in the eschaton.

This would suggest that the existence of Christ's risen human body in the Trinity is not a matter of preference for the human form, since eventually all created forms (including the ape form) will have their place in the glorified and redeemed creation in union with their Creator. It is rather, as scripture says, a "first fruits" of what will be.

 

[Assyrian]

This brings up my another thought:

Jesus took our form because He wants to be one of us on earth. Now His mission is over and the form of human to God should be a thing of the past. Why do many Christians still think we will see Jesus as a human form in Heaven (It seems that this is said at several places in the Scripture)? Why would God still want to take a human form in the Heaven? The only reason I can think of is that the human form is the preferred form of God. It is an excellent form. (can't resist this: So, the form of ape is NOT good enough).

You mean except for the bit about us being apes?

But your argument about human form being God's preferred form is really just surmising the reason for Jesus appearing in human form. Maybe the reason Jesus appears in human form is because it is a figurative vision, maybe the reason is that he became man, died as a man and rose again with a resurrected transformed human body. Maybe it is because he is communicating with human beings and he appears in squid form to the Tenticallians of Tau Ceti Prime. Claiming it is really because human is God's preferred form, does not stack up against Phil 2 saying Jesus exchanged the form of God for human form.

1John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. We don't know what we will be like yet, no one has seen Jesus as he really is either, not even John. Which is a bit of a problem for arguments based on thinking you know what Jesus will be like in eternity.

 

[juvenissun]

A physical body can be described by geometry. I don't think we can make that assumption about a spiritual body. It has no "geo" (i.e. earth, dust, the stuff the physical body is made of) to measure.



You think shape is the only way to identify different spirits? How about tone of voice, temperature, vibratory frequency, aura, magnetic resonance? (Actually all of those are physical too, but if we have so many ways other than shape to identify physical entities, there are surely as many or more analogous ways to identify spirits without relying on their geometry.)

Very interesting idea. Your argument is accepted. Thanks.

But (sorry)... Whatever the property is, even it is diffusive, there should be a "boundary" of that property. Then we can describe what the boundary looks like.

 

[juvenissun]

1John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. We don't know what we will be like yet, no one has seen Jesus as he really is either, not even John. Which is a bit of a problem for arguments based on thinking you know what Jesus will be like in eternity.

OK, thanks, Assyrian and Glaudys. I am full on this thread.