How will God handle the flock?

[skyhawke4u]

Hello my Christian Brothers and Sisters. I need your opinion if you don’t mind commenting on something that has been bothering me for some time now. It has to do with the church being divided into so many denominations and their flocks. Now this is my humble Christian opinion but I personally feel that it is not my place to judge anybody on how they worship or how they exercise their faith, nor do I feel like it’s my place to say which church is the true church or which Bible is the correct Bible. God’s our judge, not me. Now some of my Christian Brothers and Sisters have said it’s my (our) obligation to try and re-direct them (Mormons, JW’s, Budda, Scientology, Hinduism, Zen, Catholicism, etc…etc ) to the correct way of worship. I don’t know why but I feel uneasy hearing this….. So this sets the stage for my question I have for you. Here it goes. If the flock is mislead and the flock are good , God fearing people who do good deeds, loves their brothers, sisters, neighbors, and tries to live a humble and righteous life, will God show them mercy and go after the ones who started the cults and sects , or will he condemn them both? I tend to think our God is a fair and just God and may show mercy to the good hearted people even though they are mislead. Is that wrong of me to think that way? Perhaps he will go after the ones who started it for say monetary or political gain? What do you think? I just need to know how some of my Christian brethren think.

Thank you all and God Bless!

 

[fm107]

Acts 20:30
Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

The ones who started the "cults and "sects" will be judged more harshly than the followers of that way.

There are many scriptures which talk about the severity of the sin of the leaders of these "cults."

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Of course the followers are also answerable to God for their actions. It is after all their decision to join or not. However I emphasis that the biggest sinner is the leaders. I suppose it's just like how Satan is worse than the demons. The leader is always the one who is dealt with most harshly because they have the position of responsibility more so than others.

Of course some are more ignorant about true teachings and can be led away to false teachings. This too will be taken into consideration. As you say God is just and we must trust his judgement.

Luke 17:2
It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

As you see, the one who causes others to sin is the worst.

 

[heron]

During New Testaments times, there were branches of Judaism and even Christianity.

Look at how Jesus handled it. He challenged the Pharisees and Saducees over very specific topics. He preached in the temple, and gave His interpretation of scriptures, offering influence.

Jesus also told a story about the good Samaritan. Samaritans had been shunned by mainstream Jews.

"They adhered rigidly to the Torah, never admitted any of the prophetical teachings, never codified their canon law into a mishnah, and never developed their halakah to meet the necessities of altered conditions."

JewishEncyclopedia.com - SAMARITANS

The disciples also asked him about questionable believers who cast out demons and healed.

Jesus didn't teach, "Lets all get together" -- He stayed on task, and challenged people to scrutinize their faith. He pulled the emphasis away from group denomination, and toward the heart of the faith.

​

 

[Peripatetic]

Christian denominations are good in that they offer choices in worship style and congregational traditions. Denominations are not so good when we use them as a means to condemn fellow Christians and criticize our differences instead of appreciating them.

When it comes to people of other faiths, I don't think we know for sure. On one hand, John 14:6 says, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" On the other hand, Psalm 19:1-6 and Romans 1:19-20 tell us that God revealed himself to all people through his creation since the beginning of time, and that nobody has an excuse for not knowing Him. These passages are often used to explain how people in remote tribes can still come to know God even if they never see a Bible. What that tells me is that it is possible to know God (who is also Jesus) through slightly different means than formal Christian dogma. But only God knows whether that tribesman is worshiping Him as He is revealed or a false god that is of the world.

 

[DreamOutLoud]

Now some of my Christian Brothers and Sisters have said it’s my (our) obligation to try and re-direct them (Mormons, JW’s, Budda, Scientology, Hinduism, Zen, Catholicism, etc…etc ) to the correct way of worship.

It sounds as if Catholics aren't Christians

 

[fm107]

The Pharisees are a good example of blind guides:

Matthew 23:15-16
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
“Woe to you, blind guides!

Also we are told here that teachers are judged more strictly:

James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

Denominations are never a good thing.

Denominations = Divisions.

We are all apart of the same body, we are all one church.

Does God like to see a divided family? Of course he doesn't.

We all as Christians ought to be united but Satan has one victory over us time after time. Look at us, we are so divided and because we are divided, we are weaker. We become more prone to heresy creeping in the back door. Is a group of sheep stronger in more numbers against their predators or are they stronger with less numbers? Even nature tells us that denominations are an awful thing.

1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

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1 Corinthians 1:10-13
I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
Is Christ divided?

Can't we see that we have replaced "follow Apollos" & "Cephas" with denominations? We are "Baptist" and we are something else. No my friends, we are all followers of Christ and as such we should be united in all that we do, their should be no denominations and no divisions.

 

[chilehed]

C. S. Lewis said it pretty well in Chapter 15 of The Last Battle. In it, Emeth tells of his meeting with Aslan:

Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honor) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him. But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, "Son, thou art welcome." But I said, "Alas, Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash." He answered, "Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me." Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said "Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one"" The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, "It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites - I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For he and I are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore, if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child?" I said "Lord, thou knowest how much I understand." But I said also (for the truth constrained me), "Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days." "Beloved," said the Glorious One, "unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek."​

Also, pay no attention to those who lump Catholics in with non-Christians. Catholics are Christians, and have been around much longer than the children of the Reformation. And in fact, virtually all non-Catholic Christians would agree that the Nicene Creed is a true summary of Christian faith, and it's a creed that arose from a council of the Catholic Church.

 

[fm107]

Just to clarify.

Whether a person is saved or not all boils down to this:

- Do they have genuine faith and love for God and his son Jesus Christ? Have they repented of their sins and have a new outlook on life as a result of what Christ did? That is that they want to live righteously for God.

If the answer to the above is yes, the they are saved.

Following an erroneous teaching is a bad thing. However that doesn't stop you from being saved. As I said many are ignorant about the teachings of the bible.

However, there are destructive heresies out there as spoken of here:

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

How can those people possibly be saved if they deny the sovereign Lord?

 

[skyhawke4u]

“Do they have genuine faith and love for God and his son Jesus Christ? Have they repented of their sins and have a new outlook on life as a result of what Christ did? That is that they want to live righteously for God.”

Yes I agree 100% and here’s my point. Your above comment seems to be the common denominator in a lot of Christian belief systems, but again what about the flock? Let’s just use Mormons and JW’s for example…Even though they have their differences, what they do have in common is genuine faith and love for God, they believe in Jesus Christ, and they know that Jesus died on that cross and took our sins with him. Now granted there’s a lot of twists and turns in other areas such as; The Godhead, Trinity beliefs, Jehovah, Blood transfusions, etc……comparing these two religions can leave you stir crazy! Lol But…again I know several people within these ranks of religion and they are the kindness people I have ever met. I know scripture is harsh towards false prophets and teachers, and these people will be judged more harshly than the flock themselves. Who’s to say how Gods level of mercy will pan out. I know this is probably not right for me to say, but I personally feel that the true church is in your heart, and you will be judged by the goodness in your heart and not by what church you go to or which Bible you read from. Granted there’s a lot of evil people in this world and God will deal with them no doubt. But to take a JW or a Mormon and say “Your going to hell…This is a cult….” And put that person next to a pedophile that rapes and kills children and say “You’re an evil person and you’re going to hell…” Which of these two people are truly evil and deserve to go to hell? I do apologize, but I’m not the most articulate writer regarding quoting scripture but I hope I got my point across…God Bless!

 

[fm107]

skyhawke4u, this is a good conversation.


Ok, first of, who is more evil the rapists and murderers or those who follow erroneous teachings?

Well it doesn't really matter how you look at it, in general, if you don't believe in Christ and what he did, you’re going to Hell.

So we know straight away that if the rapists and murders have not accepted Christ then they are still in their sin.

On the other hand, you may have some believers who have accepted what Christ has done but follow wrong teachings. But these people are still saved.

So to answer your question, it comes down to who has accepted Christ. We are all evil by ourselves and deserve Hell, whether we be rapists or liars or whatever.

Romans 3:12
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

Is that an ok answer for you? What you done doesn’t really come into it. God is merciful to all, whether you are a mass murderer or a person who has told a couple of lies. We all deserve Hell but God offers everyone the same mercy:

Matthew 20:13-15
“But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

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Something else we should keep in mind is that we get people who have gone to church their whole life, the church follow all the correct biblical teachings and yet for one reason or another they have not accepted Christ. You see the pendulum swings both ways. You can go to a church and follow correct teaching but never be saved.

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I don't know much about Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons.

I have herd about some of their beliefs and you can quickly tell it is contradictory to scripture.

At the end of the day, I don't know enough about them to give any more of an opinion. But we can rest assured that Christ will take all things into account. Genuine believers in him who love him and obey him, will not see death, we know this from scripture.


Nice talking to you again skyhawke4u, may God bless you too.

 

[fm107]

Something else to keep in mind:

Galatians 1:6-10
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

[SharonL]

It all boils down to the point made earlier - Jesus is the way, the truth and the light - no one gets to the Father except through Jesus.

All the man made rules are not important to this fact - if this is your belief and Jesus is the Lord of your life - the labels are unimportant. Just saying I believe in Jesus does not cut it - the devil believes in Jesus - asking Jesus into your heart and repenting of your sins and living the life that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are leading you in is the important thing.

I would be careful in calling out other denominations as being wrong, you do not know what is in their hearts -yes some of the things you won't agree with, but again the heart is what matters. The man made rules are what makes it so hard to understand - look beyond that and you will find many hearts that are for Jesus.

 

[twob4me]

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[Crosssword]

According to the Bible those who don't believe in Jesus will be judged according to their works in the great white throne judgment, and I think they may be given another chance after the 1000 year reign of Christ. I'm not suggesting reincarnation, but if God would raise a soul a second or third time it is he right to do so.

However, I would like to emphasize it is a much riskier path. I don't see why anyone would despise the sacrifice Christ made for us though, even if they don't take up their cross and follow him. I also don't see why they should despise Christians for we are loving and gentle after all.

Also, Religion should not be used to enslave people. More wars have been fought over whose God is right then anything else. I think it's written in the new testament somewhere "let men worship what Gods they will."

Also, I had read the JW and Mormons were both founded by Luciferian masters, IE Freemasons. Their goal is to divide the faith as much as possible, and then finally unite the world under their own banner.