How were you taught Evolution?

[bhsmte]

Oh look....it's now 28 to ZERO who state that the teaching of evolution is devoid of any atheism...!

The conspiracy continues!

 

[justlookinla]

No, that´s not I am asking.
Let´s take it slow so I´m sure I am not losing you, or at least notice at which exact point I am losing you.

The question was:
do you understand the difference between these two statements:

A gynecologist solely treats women.
and
A gynecologist claims that there are solely women/that solely women need medical treatment.
?

I´m not asking which statement is correct or incorrect, but what the difference in their meanings is.

Put it into a creationist question form. Stick with the issue at hand.

An example would be...is humanity solely the creation of naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago or is humanity the creation of solely naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago?

See the difference?

 

[justlookinla]

Apparently. I tried both repeatedly before accepting he's simply not interested in anything that contradicts his preconceptions.

Apparently you haven't.

 

[justlookinla]

So, if you cannot choose to believe something you think is not true, how does an atheist get over the hurdle and believe that Christ is the Son of God? It seems that they need something (evidence) to show that Christ exists and can save them.
After they believe, then they can choose to follow.

Actually, it's the Spirit that draws them to Christ. They choose to respond to the Spirit by acceptance or rejection.

 

[justlookinla]

Direct answer please. Are you disputing that the definition of Darwinism you pasted from wikipedia is taught in Christian schools? Yes or no?

Yes.

If the answer is yes, you are unequivocally calling the various Christina-educated posters liars and should at least provide some evidence. If no, then your position is refuted by the following:

Boy, you atheistic creationists are fond of the 'yer a liar' response when you can't pawn your atheistic swill on others.

The fact is, nobody who's attended a Christian school has commented on what the school teaches regarding how humanity was created. The fact is, Christianity does not attribute the creation of humanity to solely, totally, completely to naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago.

1.We know from various people here that Christian schools are teaching the posted definition of Darwinism.

Not true.

2.Christian schools are obviously not teaching atheistic creationism

True

3.Therefore, the posted definition of Darwinism is not atheistic creationism.

Not true.

 

[AmorFati]

Many Catholic private schools teach evolution. As far back as 1950 Pope Pious XI I issued an encyclical saying that evolution does not contradict the Christian faith and can be accepted by Christians so long as the still hold that God created the human soul.

This is what good old wikipedia has on the subject:

"Catholic schools in the United States and other countries teach evolution as part of their science curriculum. They teach the fact that evolution occurs and the modern evolutionary synthesis, which is the scientific theory that explains why evolution occurs. This is the same evolution curriculum that secular schools teach. Bishop Francis X. DiLorenzo Richmond, chair of the Committee on Science and Human Values, wrote in a letter sent to all U.S. bishops in December 2004: "...Catholic schools should continue teaching evolution as a scientific theory backed by convincing evidence. At the same time, Catholic parents whose children are in public schools should ensure that their children are also receiving appropriate catechesis at home and in the parish on God as Creator. Students should be able to leave their biology classes, and their courses in religious instruction, with an integrated understanding of the means God chose to make us who we are."[5]"

 

[MuchWiser]

I agree, either a Christian believes God made everything or they don't they either believe or they don't, as I see it it's really simple.
Perhaps some people want a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

 

[bhsmte]

I agree, either a Christian believes God made everything or they don't they either believe or they don't, as I see it it's really simple.
Perhaps some people want a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

It really comes down to whether a believer is willing to reject reality in regards to their faith beliefs.

Some believers need to reject reality, because it can't be reconciled with their fundamentalist beliefs. Others, can't convince themselves that rejecting reality is a good idea and they recognize their faith beliefs have to be adjusted along the way.

 

[justlookinla]

Many Catholic private schools teach evolution.

Point out a Roman Catholic school which teaches that humanity is the result of solely, completely, totally naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago.

As far back as 1950 Pope Pious XI I issued an encyclical saying that evolution does not contradict the Christian faith and can be accepted by Christians so long as the still hold that God created the human soul.

This is what good old wikipedia has on the subject:

"Catholic schools in the United States and other countries teach evolution as part of their science curriculum. They teach the fact that evolution occurs and the modern evolutionary synthesis, which is the scientific theory that explains why evolution occurs. This is the same evolution curriculum that secular schools teach. Bishop Francis X. DiLorenzo Richmond, chair of the Committee on Science and Human Values, wrote in a letter sent to all U.S. bishops in December 2004: "...Catholic schools should continue teaching evolution as a scientific theory backed by convincing evidence. At the same time, Catholic parents whose children are in public schools should ensure that their children are also receiving appropriate catechesis at home and in the parish on God as Creator. Students should be able to leave their biology classes, and their courses in religious instruction, with an integrated understanding of the means God chose to make us who we are."[5]"

From Catholic.com......

"Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.

Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.

While the Church permits belief in either special creation or developmental creation on certain questions, it in no circumstances permits belief in atheistic evolution. "​

From Wikipedia....the part you chose not to include.......

"The Catholic Church holds no official position on the theory of creation or evolution, leaving the specifics of either theistic evolution or literal creationism to the individual within certain parameters established by the Church. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, any believer may accept either literal or special creation within the period of an actual six day, twenty-four hour period, or they may accept the belief that the earth evolved over time under the guidance of God. Catholicism holds that God initiated and continued the process of his evolutionary creation, that Adam and Eve were real people (the Church rejects polygenism) and affirms that all humans, whether specially created or evolved, have and have always had specially created souls for each individual."​

 

[justlookinla]

It really comes down to whether a believer is willing to reject reality in regards to their faith beliefs.

Actually, atheistic creationism isn't reality, it's a faith-based belief system.

Some believers need to reject reality, because it can't be reconciled with their fundamentalist beliefs. Others, can't convince themselves that rejecting reality is a good idea and they recognize their faith beliefs have to be adjusted along the way.

This comment is a great example of the anti-theist bias built into atheistic creationism.

 

[Delphiki]

Put it into a creationist question form. Stick with the issue at hand.

An example would be...is humanity solely the creation of naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago or is humanity the creation of solely naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago?

See the difference?

If that were true, then why didn't you vote "With an explicit denial of God's involvement"?

 

[AmorFati]

The Catholic Church does consider the world to be guided by divine providence so I would assume the schools would teach that.

Many of them also teach the science of evolution too. The same curricula used in public schools in that regard. They might also weave the science into a religious and philosophical worldview of divine providence but that doesn't mean the don't teach the same science. Public schools obviously aren't allowed to bring in the religious gloss and philosophical interpretation but the actual science isn't any different.

 

[justlookinla]

The Catholic Church does consider the world to be guided by divine providence so I would assume the schools would teach that.

Many of them also teach the science of evolution too. The same curricula used in public schools in that regard. They might also weave the science into a religious and philosophical worldview of divine providence but that doesn't mean the don't teach the same science. Public schools obviously aren't allowed to bring in the religious gloss and philosophical interpretation but the actual science isn't any different.

Are you suggesting that Catholic schools teach the worldview that humanity is created solely, completely, totally by naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago?

 

[AmorFati]

They teach the process of evolution. Including humans and apes sharing a common ancestor. They simply hold god responsible for creating everything and making it work according to the processes discovered by science. They also add the philosophical/religious theory that God specially created the human soul even though the body evolved. This later teaching isn't science it's religion so you don't see it taught in public schools.

 

[bhsmte]

The Catholic Church does consider the world to be guided by divine providence so I would assume the schools would teach that.

Many of them also teach the science of evolution too. The same curricula used in public schools in that regard. They might also weave the science into a religious and philosophical worldview of divine providence but that doesn't mean the don't teach the same science. Public schools obviously aren't allowed to bring in the religious gloss and philosophical interpretation but the actual science isn't any different.

Here is the bottom line:

There are things we can support with objective evidence and there are things that can not be supported with objective evidence. Science teaches, what can be supported with objective evidence and that is what science is, no surprise there, right?

When it comes to one's belief that a God has influence over whatever, each person is free to interject God wherever they wish in their own lives, but don't expect anything to be included in science without the objective evidence to support it.

If a believer wants to credit God for using evolution, then knock yourself out. If a believer wants to credit God because their favorite team won the big game, then knock yourself out. If a believer wants to credit God because they were able to lose that 50 pounds they needed to lose, then knock yourself out.................

 

[justlookinla]

If that were true, then why didn't you vote "With an explicit denial of God's involvement"?

Because there's no "explicit denial of God's involvement". That's the problem, the questions were leading and misleading.

Public schools do not overly, openly state that God is, or isn't, involved in the creation of humanity. The atheist agenda demands that schools teach the worldview that all of life, including humanity, is the result of solely, completely, totally naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago. The deceitful statement then can be made that God isn't mentioned, pro or con. The truth is, a creationist viewpoint entirely devoid of any impetus other than a solely naturalistic impetus is presented as fact. You are a creation of only, solely, completely naturalistic impetuses and to pass the course, you have to at least pretend to agree with that particular creationist worldview. No, we haven't mentioned God, so our inherently atheistic creationist view isn't religious and therefore permitted.

But it is a creationist viewpoint which is inherently atheistic. Humanity didn't exist, now humanity exists. How? The only permitted answer, the only creationist viewpoint allowed in our public schools is only, completely, totally, solely naturalistic processes created humanity.

Deceitful atheistic creationism.

 

[justlookinla]

They teach the process of evolution. Including humans and apes sharing a common ancestor. They simply hold god responsible for creating everything and making it work according to the processes discovered by science. They also add the philosophical/religious theory that God specially created the human soul even though the body evolved. This later teaching isn't science it's religion so you don't see it taught in public schools.

The issue is who/what created humanity. No Christian school teaches humanity was created, using Darwinism as the basis, as taught in our public schools. For anyone to suggest that Christian schools teach creationism in the same manner as public schools simply isn't true.

 

[justlookinla]

Here is the bottom line:

There are things we can support with objective evidence and there are things that can not be supported with objective evidence. Science teaches, what can be supported with objective evidence and that is what science is, no surprise there, right?

When it comes to one's belief that a God has influence over whatever, each person is free to interject God wherever they wish in their own lives, but don't expect anything to be included in science without the objective evidence to support it.

If a believer wants to credit God for using evolution, then knock yourself out. If a believer wants to credit God because their favorite team won the big game, then knock yourself out. If a believer wants to credit God because they were able to lose that 50 pounds they needed to lose, then knock yourself out.................

If an atheist believes they are a creation of a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless (other than procreation) and directionless natural mechanism, then knock yourself out.

Just don't demand your atheistic creationist worldview be taught in science class.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I agree, either a Christian believes God made everything or they don't they either believe or they don't, as I see it it's really simple.
Perhaps some people want a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Why make it so black and white?

 

[PsychoSarah]

If an atheist believes they are a creation of a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless (other than procreation) and directionless natural mechanism, then knock yourself out.

Just don't demand your atheistic creationist worldview be taught in science class.

Clearly that isn't being taught, so you have nothing to complain about. Just look at the results of the poll no one was taught evolution thus way, and 2 were taught it with god mentioned as being a part of it.

Stop hanging onto this, you have been shown wrong.