How to study the supernatural?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

This is something that repeatedly pops up every time someone goes on a rant against science not doing what they want science to do:

SCIENCE ONLY STUDIES NATURE!

Of course science studies nature. It's what science does.

But if you want science to study the supernatural, that which is supposed to exist beyond and outside nature, you have to actually give it something to work with.

So I ask you: how exactly CAN science study the supernatural? What methods, what tests?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

"If God reached his had into this plane he would pull it out dripping in physics." ~Aron Ra

 

[AV1611VET]

So I ask you: how exactly CAN science study the supernatural? What methods, what tests?

It can start by acknowledging the supernatural exists.

 

[Aaron112]

“This is God’s Message, the God who made earth, made it livable and lasting, known everywhere as God:
‘Call to me and I will answer you.
I’ll tell you marvelous and wondrous things
that you could never figure out on your own.’"

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It can start by acknowledging the supernatural exists.

How?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

“This is God’s Message, the God who made earth, made it livable and lasting, known everywhere as God:
‘Call to me and I will answer you.
I’ll tell you marvelous and wondrous things
that you could never figure out on your own.’"

How exactly can science study the supernatural? What methods? What tests?

 

[AV1611VET]

How?

First thing an alcoholic needs to do for recovery is to admit he's an alcoholic.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

First thing an alcoholic needs to do for recovery is to admit he's an alcoholic.

Not even remotely the same thing.

To acknowledge that the supernatural exists, evidence of the supernatural is needed.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

This is something that repeatedly pops up every time someone goes on a rant against science not doing what they want science to do:

SCIENCE ONLY STUDIES NATURE!

Of course science studies nature. It's what science does.

But if you want science to study the supernatural—that which is supposed to exist beyond and outside nature—you have to actually give it something to work with.

So, I ask you: How exactly can science study the supernatural? What methods? What tests?

Here is a potentially controversial take: The only thing supernatural is God.

The only dichotomy between natural and supernatural in the Bible is the Creator-creature distinction. In other words, there is only God and everything he makes. And everything he makes is entirely natural, including things like angels. Just because we don't have a scientific understanding or explanation of how one thing works or what another thing is made of, that doesn't mean we never will. Our baryonic understanding of physics fails to account for 95 percent of the universe, which means that we have good reason to suspect there is a vast host of natural things we currently cannot directly observe, explore, understand, or explain. They are not supernatural, they're just non-baryonic.

Only God "exists beyond and outside nature"—necessarily, as its Creator.

Since our scientific understanding is in its infancy, it may be a long time before we have a unified theory that marries relativity and quantum mechanics in a way that will start to reveal that other 95 percent of the universe, and allow us to develop theories on the existence and nature of angels, for example.

By way of illustration, the television show His Dark Materials (HBO) had an interesting idea with its Dust. The setting of the story involves a multiverse, which primarily takes place in the universe of the protagonist, Lyra Belacqua, but also includes a character who lives in our universe, Mary Malone. In our universe, Malone was researching dark matter, which she called "Shadow particles" or "Shadows," a name given to the particle by her colleague, Oliver Payne (in references to Plato’s Allegory of the Cave). She communicated with Shadows through an interface with her scalar field detector, which confirmed for her that these particles are constituted by dark matter. In Belacqua’s universe, it is known religiously as "Dust" or scientifically as "Rusakov particles," named after their discoverer. (Prior to any knowledge about Dust, Boris Rusakov had discovered a field permeating the universe that enabled consciousness, which implied the existence of a related particle. Both were then named after him.)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Here is a potentially controversial take: The only thing supernatural is God.

The only dichotomy between natural and supernatural in the Bible is the Creator-creature distinction. In other words, there is only God and everything he makes. And everything he makes is entirely natural, including things like angels. Just because we don't have a scientific understanding or explanation of how one thing works or what another thing is made of, that doesn't mean we never will. Our baryonic understanding of physics fails to account for 95 percent of the universe, which means that we have good reason to suspect there is a vast host of natural things we currently cannot directly observe, explore, understand, or explain. They are not supernatural, they're just non-baryonic.

Only God "exists beyond and outside nature"—necessarily, as its Creator.

Since our scientific understanding is in its infancy, it may be a long time before we have a unified theory that marries relativity and quantum mechanics in a way that will start to reveal that other 95 percent of the universe, and allow us to develop theories on the existence and nature of angels, for example.

By way of illustration, the television show His Dark Materials (HBO) had an interesting idea with its Dust. The setting of the story involves a multiverse, which primarily takes place in the universe of the protagonist, Lyra Belacqua, but also includes a character who lives in our universe, Mary Malone. In our universe, Malone was researching dark matter, which she called "Shadow particles" or "Shadows," a name given to the particle by her colleague, Oliver Payne (in references to Plato’s Allegory of the Cave). She communicated with Shadows through an interface with her scalar field detector, which confirmed for her that these particles are constituted by dark matter. In Belacqua’s universe, it is known religiously as "Dust" or scientifically as "Rusakov particles," named after their discoverer. (Prior to any knowledge about Dust, Boris Rusakov had discovered a field permeating the universe that enabled consciousness, which implied the existence of a related particle. Both were then named after him.)

So do you know of a way to study and/or test the supernatural then?

 

[AV1611VET]

To acknowledge that the supernatural exists, evidence of the supernatural is needed.

Suit yourself.

FYI, in the '70s they tested supernatural claims.

So they must know something you don't.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Suit yourself.

FYI, in the '70s they tested supernatural claims.

So they must know something you don't.

And these tests of the supernatural claims were...?

I'm not being facetious here, I'm generally interested since I've never come across anything about them. If you can give me the name, I'll look for it myself if you want.

 

[AV1611VET]

And these tests of the supernatural claims were...?

Considered inconclusive.

I'm not being facetious here, I'm generally interested since I've never come across anything about them. If you can give me the name, I'll look for it myself if you want.

From AI Overview:

The only known instance of "ESP" (Extrasensory Perception) being tested in space was conducted by astronaut Edgar Mitchell during the Apollo 14 mission to the moon, where he privately performed a series of experiments involving attempting to guess random symbols while in space, though these experiments were not officially sanctioned by NASA and are widely considered not scientifically rigorous.

In addition:

Scientists conducted paranormal research in the 1970s, including experiments on clairvoyance, telepathy, and haunted houses:

QV also:

1. The 1972 Philip Experiment
2. UCLAs Parapsychology Lab
3. Project Alpha
4. Karlis Osis
5. Russell Targ

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Failures -- as they should have been.

So you say we should accept the supernatural.... but any tests of them will be failures? Mixed messages there, my friend.

From AI Overview:

The only known instance of "ESP" (Extrasensory Perception) being tested in space was conducted by astronaut Edgar Mitchell during the Apollo 14 mission to the moon, where he privately performed a series of experiments involving attempting to guess random symbols while in space, though these experiments were not officially sanctioned by NASA and are widely considered not scientifically rigorous.

In addition:

Scientists conducted paranormal research in the 1970s, including experiments on clairvoyance, telepathy, and haunted houses:

QV also:

1. The 1972 Philip Experiment
2. UCLAs Parapsychology Lab
3. Project Alpha
4. Karlis Osis
5. Russell Targ

It's interesting and telling that only supernatural you're focusing on is solely ghosts and the like. So allow me to elucidate:

Supernatural is anything and everything that isn't natural, a part of nature, up to and including the claim that we should include God in science.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you say we should accept the supernatural.... but any tests of them will be failures? Mixed messages there, my friend.

I edited my post.

It's interesting and telling that only supernatural you're focusing on is solely ghosts and the like.

I can only focus on what science focused on.

So allow me to elucidate:

Supernatural is anything and everything that isn't natural, a part of nature, up to and including the claim that we should include God in science.

And allow me to repeat myself:

The first step in studying the supernatural is to acknowledge the existence of the supernatural.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I edited my post.

No, I'm going to keep to the original where you said they were failures.

I can only focus on what science focused on.

Okay, fair enough.

And allow me to repeat myself:

The first step in studying the supernatural is to acknowledge the existence of the supernatural.

And to acknowledge that existence of the supernatural, we need evidence of the supernatural.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, I'm going to keep to the original where you said they were failures.

As long as it keeps you from understanding, I'm sure you're keeping your boss happy.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

As long as it keeps you from understanding, I'm sure you're keep your boss happy.

I just reported your comment. I don't care if it's against the rules to say so or not but that's not something I abide in any shape or form.

 

[AV1611VET]

I just reported your comment.

Knock yourself out.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

That is mostly what science does, study what it does not already know.
In other words, study what is beyond the natural knowledge.
As it does so it expands the natural realm of knowledge.