How to Spank a Child Biblically?

akmom said:

Why does everyone always say, "I spanked my kids and they grew up to be perfect little angels, so it works." Maybe they did, or maybe you're delusional. Maybe they grew up with good values despite spanking, and not because of it. I get complimented on my four children's behavior all the time, and I DON'T spank them. It's such an absurdly subjective measure of parental success.

Luckily, it is/was a very common form of discipline, so we have a good sample size with which to study its effects on lifelong behavior and tease out other factors. And that professional research tends to discredit spanking as effective compared to other forms of discipline.

I mean real peer-reviewed research journals, not popular literature like "Destiny Magazine" or a daily newspaper, that caters to its readers.

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On a forum on parenting and on a thread where someone is asking on biblical spanking why wouldn't someone speak if spanking has worked for their family? Spanking has worked for my family and I have gotten compliments from teachers and other parents. As you have said you have got compliments as well and you don't spank but as you also said maybe they grew up with good values despite the measures you used too, you don't know.

Let's remember that the anti-spanking group usually pushes its agendas on the pro-spanking group as we can see in this thread in post #2 when the OP merely asked on biblical spanking.

Attacking the source and not the content is revealing. The content shows studies and research in this area from Calvin College psychology professor Marjorie Gunnoe and other references from:

Roberts MW & Powers SW. Adjusting chair timeout enforcement procedures for oppositional children. Behavioral Therapy.

Bean AW & Roberts MW. The effect of timeout release contingencies on changes in child noncompliance. J Abn Child Psych

Day DE & Roberts MW. An analysis of the physical punishment component of a parent training program. J Abn Child Psychol.

christine40 said:

"a rod" "the rod" are in the Bible in different places and DO have different meanings

there are Biblical scholars who know the difference
I have read the explanation of the difference in meaning but unable to locate links at moment




but this is interesting:

Christians have no moral rationale for spanking their children

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From the article that you gave is very biased and wrong, here are some from the article (the underlined is from the article):

1. "The NFL star hit his four-year-old son with a "switch," creating welts on the child's legs, scrotum, and buttocks"... This is abuse not spanking.

2. "many belt-swinging believers" and "Christian who is hell-bent on hitting your kids"... Is pure emotionalism and not truthful as many spanking parents do not swing a belt or even use a belt, nor are they "hell-bent on hitting" their kids.

3. "the Hebrew word translated "rod" refers to a shepherd's rod, which "was used to guide the sheep, not to beat them."".... This is simply not true as we can see in Proverbs 23:13 shows the "rod" was not about guiding but discipline .

4. "There are numerous commands against physical violence"... true but nothing against spanking as what the article is about.

5. "Jesus was a defender of children, offered a withering warning about harming them, and taught that violence only creates more violence."... This is pure emotionalism as Jesus never taught that "spanking creates more violence or that violence creates more violence. This is something that was added not something that is taught tho scripture.

6. "Many social scientists have explored the effects of spanking on children, and the majority of their results are overwhelming negative."... Wrong as there are many studies and researchers in favor of spanking as I have already provided.

Few more since I had some time.

7. Christians.... to a Proverbs passage they clearly don't understand, or by ignoring the entire New Testament and Jesus' teachings.... This is a dangerous worldview of elitism that we have seen in groups like westboro baptist Church and A True Church. Many cults have also used this worldview and philosophy to justify about everything. When a person claims understand scripture and others do not understand the true meaning be cautious. Not to mention that many biblical scholars disagree on the articles position on spanking.

8. abuse steepens when parents hit in an emotional moment.... parents will often tell you that they usually spank compassionately and rarely. But don't believe them..... According to this article parents will abuse their children and if they do not abuse them do not believe them. So according to this article the fact that I never abuse my children and the fact I lovingly provide for them does not matter according to this article do not believe me. This article you provided hinges on ridiculousness.

9. Instead, many New Testament passages discourage hitting a child for any reason.... Yet with this claim the article does not give one scripture on not spanking your child except turn the other cheek which is not at all relevant to spanking.

10. And it's not as if religious parents can point to the Bible for justification.... Right there is no biblical support let's see here Proverbs 23:13-14, Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 22:15, Hebrews 12:11, and Hebrews 12:6

11. Both Ephesians 6and Colossians 3 include commands for parents to not provoke their children..... Provoke and discipline are two different actions. Provoking can be favoritism, discouragement or putting them down all the time, using love as a tool against them, failing to let children grow up and failing to sacrifice for them. Which is fully separate from discipline that is from love that promotes success in life and boundaries.

12. for the damage you've done to the pink-faced child who thinks you hung the moon...It's your fault..... More emotionalism and sensationalism that is void of factuality. This article is full of misinformation as pointed out and emotional hooks to get readers to buy in to this false story that spanking is evil and parents who do so are abusive.

I could go on and on, on this article but I think I made my point that this is heavily biased and leads to assertions of using words to suggest spanking are abuse when that is not the case.

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christine40 said:

your first link didn't work
another link of yours seemed to be a flawed study as it was using spanking coupled with time-out

the reference links in it were all outdated from early 80's and even back to 1975

researchers now know spanking doesn't work plus linked to mental disorders re my link
Study links spanking to later mental disorders

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First link worked just fine try again. The study from the first link is 2010. The other links are from studies that are recent as well and some of the references are old but the recent studies show the effectiveness of spanking.

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Logic Over Emotionalism said:

Here are a couple of studies that favor spanking:

Spanking makes kids perform better in school, helps them become more successful: study - NY Daily News

Evidence Favoring the Use of Disciplinary Spanking « GoodParent.org

Here is what the Bible says on this subject:

Proverbs 13:24: Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

Proverbs 23:13-14 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.

Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

Hebrews 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

We have to remember that "the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." As we are reminded in Hebrews 12:6.

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You can give me 1000 scriptures to hit a child, but I will give one reason not to ever hit a child unless you truly must.

Love.

Unless you ever have been abused or tormented as a child like me, then you can argue this fact.

Danielwright2311 said:

You can give me 1000 scriptures to hit a child, but I will give one reason not to ever hit a child unless you truly must.

Love.

Unless you ever have been abused or tormented as a child like me, then you can argue this fact.

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You make blind assumptions. Do you doubt I love my child less that I spank my child? Or do you doubt God's love as a Father for many of his people who went through worse then a spanking?

christine40 said:

attended parenting classes required for adopting and have continued attending parenting workshops/classes after becoming a parent
(in the community, at more than one church, as well as on-line workshops with parenting experts as well as experts in adoption and trauma)

not one speaker, church speaker, nor parenting expert ever recommended spanking, not one

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I have also attended parenting classes for adoption as this is something we are looking in to for the future. I was also apart of a Christian internship in Lindale TX for a couple of years where I learned from many Christian scholars most were for spanking and a few spoke against it so I got to hear both sides of the subject. But just cause I attended this internship, my education, putting on massive Christian events with these speakers, or my parenting classes I took do not make me an expert in this field as nor does it make you one.

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christine40 said:

you must have started your home study/met with SW then since parenting classes is part of the HS

good luck
p.s. the SW will ask what your discipline method will be, at least ours did

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No just a class that we paid for while in Idaho for learning to be adoptive parents (which you can do easily enough after signing some paperwork). David Hasz who works as the EVP of Bethany Global University who adopted children told me of the blessing of raising kids who have no homes. Which we are not going to do for still a few years we just wanted to get some knowledge on what it takes if we do decide to go down this path. If we do so, we will go through a Christian adoption service like Bethany christian services which seemed to be ok with biblical discipline. Honestly if you read in to the adoption agency that you wish to go through you can raise the child in a spanking or non-spanking household depending who you go through.

christine40 said:

no person "hits" another person out of love
sorry, don't buy it

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What do you do with this verse, since God IS love?

Hebrews 12:6
For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives.

“Scourge” is similar to a cat o nine tails, a whip meant to strip flesh from the bone.

Logic Over Emotionalism said:

Honestly if you read in to the adoption agency that you wish to go through you can raise the child in a spanking or non-spanking household depending who you go through.

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if you choose to adopt and then continue to use spanking in your repertoire, there will be neg. consequences

no adopted child comes with a clean slate

to use spanking to stop a behavior momentarily
(which is all spanking does) will not help an adopted child to change any learned behaviors, learn an alternative appropriate behavior, feel connected to you, or learn to feel safe in a new environment

Logic Over Emotionalism said:

so the people in the Bible are just imaginary? Why are you on a Christian site I wonder.

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because I’m a Christian. That’s how I worship. I’m historically literate enough to understand that all religious beliefs are just that, beliefs. Or am I gonna get the no true Scotsman argument from you

Logic Over Emotionalism said:

This is simply not true as we can see in Proverbs 23:13 shows the "rod" was not about guiding but discipline .

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Discipline IS about guidance. That's the purpose of discipline. As opposed to punishment, which is more about justice than correction. I'm not trying to be nitpicky. I just found it perplexing that you are trying to distinguish between guidance and discipline, like they are two different goals. They are not. How is a shepherd's rod and staff used? To guide, or punish?

Logic Over Emotionalism said:

true but nothing against spanking as what the article is about.

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The Bible doesn't criticize spanking, because it doesn't mention it at all! No description of striking a child's rear exists in the text.

Brightmoon said:

because I’m a Christian. That’s how I worship. I’m historically literate enough to understand that all religious beliefs are just that, beliefs. Or am I gonna get the no true Scotsman argument from you

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Didn't you say the same thing in post #81. I know you are a Christian. As I already responded if you want to have this discussion we can as archaeology has uncovered many biblical cities and people. But this thread is not about that. So if you wish make a thread and I will respond or pm me.

I forgot that I’d answered you . And I’m still not interested in creationist pseudoscience or bible based archeology because I’ve heard so much bad press about it. Given the pseudoscience nonsense I get from most soi disant bible believers it would be s complete waste of time

akmom said:

Discipline IS about guidance. That's the purpose of discipline. As opposed to punishment, which is more about justice than correction. I'm not trying to be nitpicky. I just found it perplexing that you are trying to distinguish between guidance and discipline, like they are two different goals. They are not. How is a shepherd's rod and staff used? To guide, or punish?



The Bible doesn't criticize spanking, because it doesn't mention it at all! No description of striking a child's rear exists in the text.

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I was responding to the article. Which the article that you cut off said "used to guide sheep not to beat them" the scripture I provided was about discipline which includes spanking. I could of worded it better as discipline is a part guidance.

For your next point: Proverbs 23:13-14 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.

Brightmoon said:

I forgot that I’d answered you . And I’m still not interested in creationist pseudoscience or bible based archeology because I’ve heard so much bad press about it. Given the pseudoscience nonsense I get from most soi disant bible believers it would be s complete waste of time

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If we did have that discussion the sources wouldn't be from Christian sites as I would want something that is unbiased as I always have done. To say the people of the Bible are merely beliefs is to say Julius Caesar or Pontius Pilate (or biblical cities like Jerusalem and Bethlehem that still exist) are just beliefs even tho we have evidence that they existed.

christine40 said:

Christians have no moral rationale for spanking their children

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I gave a detailed review of a few problems with this article in post #105 and added more to it today.

christine40 said:

if you choose to adopt and then continue to use spanking in your repertoire, there will be neg. consequences

no adopted child comes with a clean slate

to use spanking to stop a behavior momentarily
(which is all spanking does) will not help an adopted child to change any learned behaviors, learn an alternative appropriate behavior, feel connected to you, or learn to feel safe in a new environment

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This hinges on age and trust between you and the child. By age five our oldest Michael we don't spank anymore as he is disciplined and displays responsibility as well as making good choices. Spanking is never our first response as you may believe. We do time outs, chores (all kids have chores by age 2), and taking away privileges before spanking becomes a possibility. When spankings do happen we sit down and talk about it so we can have a healthy dialogue so we can answer why they got spanked. As for adopted children it depends on trust and age. Studies have shown that it becomes less effective as children get older.