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Mal 3:10 -You really shouldn't though.
Many were there with Jesus and saw Him resurrected such as John. If you are talking about Mary, obviously the disciples were not there yet. Joseph was there, and an angel told him that Mary was pregnant also. John the Baptist's mom saw Mary when she was pregnant. Jesus always talked with the Father, who was there!Name one prophet or apostle who was there. Just one. That shouldn't be difficult if so many of them were there.
Jesus confirmed it.How do you know she wasn't impregnated by a man though?
He is easy to verify and put to the test. Obviously science is not in the business of verifying that God miraculously impregnated a virgin. Nor is it capable of denying it.What I'm trying to get at is you need a way to verify these ideas. I'm still not seeing how you can do that.
Lost me there. ( Although I assume you may be talking about some of my deductions on the scientific front)You've made some assertions (essentially your hypothesis), but still haven't explained how you can test it.
One way I tested it was to ask Jesus into my heart. He came. Tried, tested, and proven. Later I studied prophesy a little and sure enough, Scripture prophesy is tested and tried and true as ever true could be also.Sure, fine. But that's why I'm trying to understand how one can test ideas related to the supernatural. So far, you haven't even begun to explain how that works.
When people ask for evidence in a forum with science areas, generally it is science that they have in mind.I'm not asking about how science does things, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up.
Mary tested it! You can't. Jesus confirmed it was all true.Just focus on the example you presented: Mary was allegedly impregnated supernaturally. Explain how one can test that idea to verify that that event did occur as a result of supernatural intervention.
People perceive things in really different ways. (See here for an example based on 'blue').Michael said:FYI, I think you hit the nail on the head in this post.
As I said, the honest person admits when something cannot be known. Belief isn't the same as knowledge.No problem, let's verify that. All men can know if Jesus is God and whether He will come into our lives if asked. So you can know.
That's what was being discussed and the claim you made was in response to that, so let's stick to that topic. The disciples weren't there, so that's a good start.If you are talking about Mary, obviously the disciples were not there yet.
Chapter and verse please. My bible has Mary being on her own when Gabriel visited.Joseph was there
All irrelevant to the claim you made.and an angel told him that Mary was pregnant also. John the Baptist's mom saw Mary when she was pregnant. Jesus always talked with the Father, who was there!
Talk to dad; dad said, "The supernatural is testable and has been tested". He also says, "We can test God. People do it all the time. He asks us too!"You're not supposed to test God.
This is a misunderstanding of science. If there is physical evidence, it is within the scope of science, whatever the claimed origin, be it spiritual, supernatural or magical. Physical evidence is observable, measurable; it has effects on other physical systems, so it can be investigated....Mary found out that the angel that spoke to her was correct. She had physical evidence. Science would not have recognized the physical evidence. Why? Because science is selective. Nothing physical matters if it involved the spiritual, or was outside of a place modern science could test.
He was quoting - but that alone doesn't mean he endorsed the quote - if he'd said, "It is rightly said...", you'd have a point.You really shouldn't though.
Jesus confirmed it.
He is easy to verify and put to the test. Obviously science is not in the business of verifying that God miraculously impregnated a virgin. Nor is it capable of denying it.
Lost me there.
One way I tested it was to ask Jesus into my heart. He came. Tried, tested, and proven.
Later I studied prophesy a little and sure enough, Scripture prophesy is tested and tried and true as ever true could be also.
Mary tested it! You can't. Jesus confirmed it was all true.
Mal 3:10 -
Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
So we are asked to test Him by the Almighty Himself.
If God could not be known, Jesus would never have come to earth to make Himself known. Now if you are just talking about science, well, they had to get used to saying 'I don't know'! Even when they thought they knew along comes new info and boom, back to the drawing board to cook up a new fishbowl explanation.As I said, the honest person admits when something cannot be known. Belief isn't the same as knowledge.
OKThat's what was being discussed and the claim you made was in response to that, so let's stick to that topic. The disciples weren't there, so that's a good start.
Chapter and verse please. My bible has Mary being on her own when Gabriel visited.
She had God in her belly. Name the science that you claim could be used here for 'whatever origin'!?This is a misunderstanding of science. If there is physical evidence, it is within the scope of science, whatever the claimed origin, be it spiritual, supernatural or magical. Physical evidence is observable, measurable; it has effects on other physical systems, so it can be investigated.
So what was the physical evidence that Mary had?
By saying that Scripture was correct in the extreme. By fulfilling it and rising from being dead as a doornail. By being alive and well today and working in our lives when invited.How? Again, you keep asserting things but you keep leaving out the "how". I want to know the "how".
Looking at the thread title, it gets confusing. So God works in people. We are the test tubes.I'm not talking about science. I'm talking about how one tests things supernaturally. You don't need to keep bringing up science.
Sometimes people would not even know that some spirit had affected them or inspired them when it comes to spirits that are not of God. However, God makes Himself known when aked.What you have been presenting is an idea (or generalized ideas). I'm asking how the idea can be tested to verify they are a result of the supernatural. Especially in a manner that rules out competing explanations.
That was fulfilled prophesy known by many at the time who knew her. Even the Magi knew something was going on and traveled far to see it.For example, women can become pregnant via sexual intercourse. In the case of Mary, you are claiming she was impregnated supernaturally.
That was already confirmed by Mary and Joseph and Jesus and Elizabeth and etc. No need to have you confirm it. One way to confirm it is by seeing how Jesus works still and has worked and how the bible is true. Not sure where this idea comes from that little modern man should be required to put their stamp of approval on things that happened long long long before they existed? If we test God and the bible and prophesy and see it is all true, we then know the things we can't check are also true. Elementary.So my question is how do we confirm that such a pregnancy was the result of supernatural intervention and she didn't just have sex?
That is a bit like saying how does it feel to be soaked in water? How does it feel to love your mom? How does it feel to get shocked by electricity? How does it feel to have many prayers answered? Etc. God works in people. So each 'test-tube' needs to perform the tests.How does this test the supernatural?
Israel went into captivity 70 years and Jerusalem was destroyed. Or we see that the temple that took eighty years to build in Herod's day was completely destroyed, even having stones ripped apart looking for melted gold in cracks. So one day the big temple was here, the next..boom. No temple at all. EtcGive an example. How is prophesy tested in a manner that verifies the supernatural?
If we depended on only what you could test man would be in the dark. Get over the idea you can test anything supernatural on your own power, steam, and strength! The way we test it is by looking at the effects and reality of God in our lives when we do as He said and ask. No one is going to be climbing over the back walls, or sneaking around doing things their own way and get results.If we can't test this idea, then why even bring it up? It doesn't sound like a good example.
Jesus asked us to accept Him in our hearts. Then we would know if it was all true and He was of God. That is a test. We are told to test the spirits and what is said to see if they are of God or not. That is a test. Elijah tested what god or God was real by having fire come down from heaven. Israel tested God in times when they were weak and had more powerful enemies by obeying and having God wipe out their enemies! Noah tested God by spending years building the ark, and sure enough. all the animals came to the ark, called by God, and the world was flooded! Abraham tested God by offering his son, expecting that God would raise him from the dead. Putting God to the test is what believers do. Even in asking for eternal life, we test Him in many cases to see if He will do what He said.That was a specific situation. I'm talking about in general.
She had a baby in her belly. What was the physical evidence that it was a supernatural baby? i.e. how could it be physically distinguished from an ordinary human baby?She had God in her belly. Name the science that you claim could be used here for 'whatever origin'!?
Nice. You admit nobody was with Mary but still insist others were there.OK
Joseph was there, as in with Mary as a partner. He was not in the room when Gabriel appeared. He was though, as stated, informed by an angel later that the baby was from God. So yes, Joseph was there and very much a part of things.
The baby was born with no man involved. That is supernatural. The baby was announced by an angel from the throne of God. Rose from the dead. The baby healed multitudes in Israel. The baby rose the dead to life. The baby walked through walls and on water and flew up to heaven. The baby had another supernatural birth happen for His prophet to prepare His way. The baby fulfilled over 300 Scripture prophesies. Can you not start to detect some supernatural was involved here?She had a baby in her belly. What was the physical evidence that it was a supernatural baby? i.e. how could it be physically distinguished from an ordinary human baby?
Desperate post. Gabriel was with Mary. God was with Mary. Joseph was betrothed to her. Not sure if you wanted a spy camera in the bedroom, or you won't believe it? Oh, and an angel also told Elizabeth who was the mom of John the Baptist that Mary was carrying a baby from God!Nice. You admit nobody was with Mary but still insist others were there.
Guess what? You've been defeated again
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