How to prove God exists.

Gene2memE · Jan 11, 2017

Pachomius said:
Dear Loudmouth, I like to have a sustained exchange with you.

You see, you want evidence for God existing, that is a legitimate demand.

Now, you say that my concept of God, namely, that God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning, is to you a belief.

Okay, that is very good from your part, about my concept of God is a belief.

Is that all right with you that we will call that concept above of God as a belief concept?

So, let us go together into the objective realm of reality which is the universe and man and everything that has a beginning; all these things are outside our mind and outside of belief concepts in our mind.

We will look for evidence in all these things, which evidence will validate the belief concept, namely, of the concept of God, as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning, that the belief concept is true, is a fact, is according to logic, and supported in the history of ideas.

And wherefore God exists.

Is that all right with you?

You've presented the Kalam Cosmological Argument.

As an atheist, I find this fails to be convincing a convincing argument for the existence of God following reasons:
1. It is an exercise in sophistry. It merely defines God into existence as a necessary cause, without providing any evidence of such a being;
2. It is a case of special pleading - all things in reality have a beginning, except God
3. I find both premises of the Kalam to be undemonstrated at best, and flat out wrong in most interpretations
4. A logical proof is only evidence that a logically coherent argument can be made using certain premises. Argument by syllogism is irrelevant without any confirming evidence
5. The universe may be eternal - we know that space-time started, but we don't know positively that a contraction/expansion 'Big Wobble' can be ruled out
6. Accepting the Kalam can only lead to the belief in a creator, a generalised, non-interventionist, non-manifesting deity. Which is indistinguishable from no God at all.

Those are my initial objections. I have others, if you want

Zurückschlagen · Jan 11, 2017

I can prove that he exists. I can't prove what his/it motives are and why we are here, alive.

Just google "Helix Nebula" or "Pillars of Creation" and you will understand.

The Helix Nebula or The Eye of God looks almost 100% identical to our eye's iris.

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
I can prove that he exists. I can't prove what his/it motives are and why we are here, alive.

Just google "Helix Nebula" or "Pillars of Creation" and you will understand.

The Helix Nebula or The Eye of God looks almost 100% identical to our eye's iris.

You seem to have no clue as to what proof is.

Zurückschlagen · Jan 11, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
You seem to have no clue as to what proof is.

I actually have a clue, that you don't have a clue

Do you know what's that? Thats' your hair follicle. It's called Flagellum Motor. And it's an engine. AN ENGINE. A rotary type mechanism which has a specific purpose.

So you are telling me that cosmic dust MADE THAT, BY MISTAKE?

You need to read more about biology I guess.

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
I actually have a clue, that you don't have a clue

Do you know what's that? Thats' your hair follicle. It's called Flagellum Motor. And it's an engine. AN ENGINE. A rotary type mechanism which has a specific purpose.

So you are telling me that cosmic dust MADE THAT, BY MISTAKE?

You still have no clue. Why do you think that life evolved by "mistake" ?

Only those that do not understand evolution make that error.

Zurückschlagen · Jan 11, 2017

Why monkeys don't evolve now? Why nothing evolves now?
This is not X-men you know. Mutants does not exist.

And even if stuff evolved, how did this evolved into a perfect mechanism? You saw the photo. You're speechless right now because you can't explain to me how something would evolve with a perfect symmetry.

Zurückschlagen · Jan 11, 2017

You know very good that German cars are engineered to precision with machines. It takes lots of time, lots of people and machines to make something fit perfect and work as intended. You can't just evolve a BMW. LOL.

It would be cool for me to watch you how you evolve an Audi, Yu-Gi-Oh.

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
You know very good that German cars are engineered to precision with machines. It takes lots of time, lots of people and machines to make something fit perfect and work as intended. You can't just evolve a BMW. LOL.

It would be cool for me to watch you how you evolve an Audi, Yu-Gi-Oh.

Cars don't self reproduce. They can't evolve. And you still have only demonstrated that you do not understand biology at all. Or any of the sciences for that matter.

For example, the evolution of the flagellum is fairly well understood.

Zurückschlagen · Jan 11, 2017

OK then, enlighten me about biology (no irony or sarcasm here).

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
Why monkeys don't evolve now? Why nothing evolves now?
This is not X-men you know. Mutants does not exist.

And even if stuff evolved, how did this evolved into a perfect mechanism? You saw the photo. You're speechless right now because you can't explain to me how something would evolve with a perfect symmetry.

I am speechless because I have never seen such an utter lack of knowledge.

Everything is still evolving. You have over 50 mutations in the DNA that your parents gave you.

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
OK then, enlighten me about biology (no irony or sarcasm here).

That would be a task that I could not do through the limited means of this forum. You need to take some real courses on it. I could link some basic videos. How much general science education do you have?

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
I actually have a clue, that you don't have a clue

Do you know what's that? Thats' your hair follicle. It's called Flagellum Motor. And it's an engine. AN ENGINE. A rotary type mechanism which has a specific purpose.

So you are telling me that cosmic dust MADE THAT, BY MISTAKE?

You need to read more about biology I guess.

By the way, this is old news. You should try to stay up to date. In face here is an amateur video that is ten years old that explains how this structure evolved. If the video is not good enough you can go to YouTube and in the information bar there is a link to a MUCH more in depth article that the video was based upon. And if that is not good enough you can follow the links in the articles to over 200 peer reviewed articles that it was based upon:

Zurückschlagen · Jan 11, 2017

I'm actually a scientist and I have a PhD degree for Molecular biology. Just kidding. Post me a link, I will watch it. I'm curious.

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
I'm actually a scientist and I have a PhD degree for Molecular biology. Just kidding. Post me a link, I will watch it. I'm curious.

Why the poe act? That does not seem to be the way that a mature adult would act here.

AV1611VET · Jan 11, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
That does not seem to be the way that a mature adult would act here.

Speaking of mature adults, do you believe the Bible depicts Adam & Eve as created with maturity?

Subduction Zone · Jan 11, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Speaking of mature adults, do you believe the Bible depicts Adam & Eve as created with maturity?

Not now, Hitch.

AV1611VET · Jan 11, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
That does not seem to be the way that a mature adult would act here.

Subduction Zone said:
Not now, Hitch.

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

quatona · Jan 11, 2017

Radrook said:
You yourself is evidence that an ID exists.

Do you expect us to return this compliment?

quatona · Jan 11, 2017

Zurückschlagen said:
You know very good that German cars are engineered to precision with machines. It takes lots of time, lots of people and machines to make something fit perfect and work as intended. You can't just evolve a BMW. LOL.

It would be cool for me to watch you how you evolve an Audi, Yu-Gi-Oh.

And we know that exactly because they are different from nature.

SkyWriting · Jan 11, 2017

Pachomius said:
Dear readers of this thread, first I want to thank you for coming over.

Next I want to thank the founders, owners, operators of these forums, because I have never been in any way curtailed in my exposition of my thoughts here; otherwise everywhere I went I got eventually sooner than later banned, for writing on my thinking and they did not like it.

Now, the present thread is an experiment, and dear readers you will get to know the objective of this thread, as you read my thinking on my exposition on how to prove God exists.

Here goes.

First and before anything else, people who care to prove God exists, or for people who care to disprove or to deny God exists even without proving, because they just want to insist that God does not exist, or they want to maintain their right to not admit that God exists...

First and before anything else, all peoples have got to harbor in their mind or brain the information of the concept of God, otherwise they are not acting rationally and in fact they are acting un-intelligently.

So, dear posters here, and dear readers here who don't post: please, do speak out instead of being all the time passively reading, and not contributing your own thoughts on the issue God exists (or not).

At this point, I will invite posters here to give their comments, on my statement that first and foremost, peoples who want to prove or disprove or deny God exists even without proving anything at all, please give your comments in reaction to my statement about people not having at all any information on the concept of God Which God is to be proven to exist or to not exist, that they are conducting themselves irrationally and even un-intelligently.

So dear readers of this thread, let us sit back and await posters here to present their comments, on my statement that:

First and foremost you have got to have information on the concept of God, in order to be relevant to the proof or disproof of God existing, otherwise you are conducting yourselves irrationally or in particular un-intelligently.

Again, dear readers here, let us all sit back and await posters here to present their comments or words, to the effect of reacting to my statement immediately preceding this ending paragraph of my post here.

[ A similar thread from me is started in another internet forum. ]

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How to prove God exists.

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"God"? What do you mean??

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