How to prove God exists.

[zippy2006]

I have no qualms ending a conversation with a polemical poster who is not even able to follow and rightly interpret dialogues. Try harder next time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have no qualms ending a conversation with a polemical poster who is not even able to follow and rightly interpret dialogues. Try harder next time.

Aww, all that you can try to do is to use terms inappropriately which indicates a lack of understanding on your part.

Why did you not try to refute the claim that you rely on circular reasoning? Is it because you know that you can't?

 

[zippy2006]

Why did you not try to refute the claim that you rely on circular reasoning?

It is because when I asked you to substantiate the precise circular reasoning in question, you were either unable or unwilling to do so. Apparently you don't even know what sort of circular reasoning I rely on, much less myself.

 

[HitchSlap]

Your reply began with, "Most religions have rather worthless defensive verses such as this one..." Granted, you probably don't understand what is meant by polemics, for "I made no polemics" is not even grammatically correct.



Did you even read what I was responding to in his post? He claimed that knowledge of God's existence precludes religious faith. His point about circularity, made in a later post, was self-admittedly not made in the first post ("My main point in this thread, which I didn't get to put into my first post...").

Let's sort out your ambiguous rhetoric for once:



What is the point?



What do I do to support my faith?



What circular reasoning? Provide the syllogism.



Skeptics are not unbiased by definition. Good evidence convinces the unbiased, not the skeptics.



Lol

It is because when I asked you to substantiate the precise circular reasoning in question, you were either unable or unwilling to do so. Apparently you don't even know what sort of circular reasoning I rely on, much less myself.

 

[zippy2006]

Cute pictures Hitch. The fancy colors and shapes are a sure way to capture and hold atheists' attention for at least a few seconds.

 

[HitchSlap]

Cute pictures Hitch. The fancy colors and shapes are a sure way to capture and hold atheists' attention for at least a few seconds.

Sure, no prob. If there's a step or two that you need clarified, don't hesitate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is because when I asked you to substantiate the precise circular reasoning in question, you were either unable or unwilling to do so. Apparently you don't even know what sort of circular reasoning I rely on, much less myself.

You made an improper request. I explained your error. Why did you not ask properly?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Zippy, I assume you believe in the Christian God since you label yourself Catholic. Religions are faith based, they are not evidence based. And your own posts more than imply at your own circular reasoning.

But I could be wrong. You may be the first Christian ever that did not use circular reasoning. But for me to properly answer your questions I need to know what you believe and why. Can you tell me that without writing a book?

 

[zippy2006]

Zippy, I assume you believe in the Christian God since you label yourself Catholic. Religions are faith based, they are not evidence based. And your own posts more than imply at your own circular reasoning.

But I could be wrong. You may be the first Christian ever that did not use circular reasoning. But for me to properly answer your questions I need to know what you believe and why. Can you tell me that without writing a book?

So you don't know if I depend on circular reasoning or not, then, contrary to your previous assertions? Or do my posts imply it? Where is it implied? Or do you drop that charge as well?

A basic problem I have with your methodology is this: you say things without supporting them. You say all sorts of things, but do not substantiate them. This bit about circular reasoning is just one example of many.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you don't know if I depend on circular reasoning or not, then, contrary to your previous assertions? Or do my posts imply it? Where is it implied? Or do you drop that charge as well?

It was a reasonable conclusion based upon thousands of others before you. I have yet to meet a Christian that does not use circular reasoning. Once again, you could show that I was wrong. But until you do I will go with what the past has shown to be the case.

By the way I did not drop any "charge". And your reticence on the basis of your beliefs does support my "charges".

 

[zippy2006]

It was a reasonable conclusion based upon thousands of others before you. I have yet to meet a Christian that does not use circular reasoning. Once again, you could show that I was wrong. But until you do I will go with what the past has shown to be the case.

That's alright, I'm not convinced that a conversation with someone who jumps to so many conclusions without any evidence will go anywhere anyway. I would, on the other hand, be open to such an exchange with more rigorous atheists such as Frumious or Freodin.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's alright, I'm not convinced that a conversation with someone who jumps to so many conclusions without any evidence will go anywhere anyway. I would, on the other hand, be open to such an exchange with more rigorous atheists such as Frumious or Freodin.

I did not jump to any conclusions. You sure do make quite a few false allegations. But then when you have nothing .....

But let's go back a bit. You tried to use a weak defensive verse from Romans. Then I properly called you out for that error. That verse strongly implied that youhad evidence. It is apparent that you have none and you keep supporting my claim of circular reasoning by your inaction.

Unlike you I can reason.

 

[Loudmouth]

Okay. Dear Loudmouth, I get you, you seek evidence from people who know God exists.

Please bear with me, have you ever at all done any search for evidence, instead of asking people who know God exists?

Asking people for evidence is that search.

Are you saying that not one person who believes in a deity has any actual evidence that any deities exist?

You see, when I talk with atheists, I find them to be into putting up all kinds and manners of hide and seek safety, by which they will not at all agree with me, even on so simple a thing as that babies come from their parents, instead they will say that babies come from reproduction - that is the awful kind of a mindset that dwells on all kinds and manners of linguistic foolery.

From our discussion, you are the only one who seems to be dodging the conversation. I have to repeat the same thing over and over and over before you will even acknowledge it.

And why do I care to examine how atheists think? Because they are intelligent and have higher IQ than me, so it is to my profit that I find out how they think.

I really don't think there is a correlation between IQ and theistic beliefs.

Okay, back to my request to you, please tell me, have you ever sought evidence by yourself at all, instead of asking evidence from people who know God exists?

For the fifth or sixth or seventh time . . . Yes, I have sought evidence. I have gone to people who claim to believe that God exists, but I have yet to find a single one that can offer any reasonable evidence. It would appear that you may be joining that list.

 

[Pachomius]

Dear Zone, you say:

Try to keep it short. If you drop the insults your posts will be half as long and have twice as much punch. Of course I should give you a friendly warning:

Two times zero is still zero.

Is that your word salad of telling me that you will employ physical violence on my person?

Please clarify your word salad, for I am quite keen on your word salad warning.

While you are thinking over your word salad warning, please also apply your heart and mind, to contribute your take on my No. 1 request to all atheists, What exactly is your attitude toward God: He exists or not, or you have doubts?

For if you have doubts, then stop conducting yourselves in words and in acts like militant atheists.

And don't neglect to think as to reply to my No. 2 request to atheists, How have you taught yourselves as to identify yourselves with the label of atheist?


Dear readers, let us also sit back and with bated breath await the reply of Zone to this post of mine, to witness what other warnings he is going to hurl on me, like physical violence on my person?

Watch out, dear atheist Zone, that warning of physical violence is a crime in any society, even when made in the internet.

I would propose that you disabuse completely your heart and mine from any word salad of issuing warnings at all, in a message forum - just use the word advice instead of warning.

By the use of the word zero, are you hinting that you will make me extinct, i.e. zero?

Please clarify your word salad.

An amazing amount of word salad for one that claimed he was going to avoid it.

Try to keep it short. If you drop the insults your posts will be half as long and have twice as much punch. Of course I should give you a friendly warning:

Two times zero is still zero.

 

[bhsmte]

Hilarious stuff!

 

[Pachomius]

Okay, dear Gene2, you are certain there is no God, that is your explicit declaration to my No. 1 request to you, and it is because you have found no evidence, that is your reply to my No. 2 request to you.

For recall of readers:
No. 1 request is that atheists declare themselves exactly what is their take on God exists or not.
No. 2 request is that they declare how they have taught themselves as to identify themselves with the label of atheist.

Okay, as I have asked Loudmouth, so I address this question to you, Have you yourself ever taken the task to search by yourself for evidence in re God exists or not?


Now, dear readers here, let us sit back and witness how Gene2 reply to my question, Have you yourself ever by yourself searched for evidence at all, in particular where and how and what kind of evidence, in re God exists or not; and what is the description of God on which you if ever yourself have searched by yourself for evidence: as it is irrational and un-intelligent from your part to search for God without a no nonsense description of God.


Dear readers here, I like to hint to you to examine atheists on how they think if at all: Do they think with precision, or always in aid of hide and seek, seek to hide ever deeper and darker from the issue itself of God exists or not.

Dear atheists, abstain from issuing warnings whatsoever on me, use the word advice instead.

To reiterate:

I'm an atheist as I have not accepted the claims of others concerning their belief in existence of deities.

I hold this position as I have not been presented with any evidence that convinces me there is any validity to these claims.



Sure, evidence is factual information that can be used to support a claim or conclusion. This factual information needs to be accepted/undisputed/unchallenged by both sides, otherwise their arguments and counter arguments fall apart as there's no agreement on terms.



If I decide to continue, be warned that my engaging with you is provisional. I will withdraw for the conversation if:
You continue to insult and snipe at other posters on the forum in particular and non-believers in general
You continue to use circuitous language - be concise, make your argument and responses and only those.
You continue to address the board in general, rather the posters individually.

Also, I will not accept deductive logical syllogisms as evidence.

Those are my terms.

 

[Michael]

It was a reasonable conclusion based upon thousands of others before you. I have yet to meet a Christian that does not use circular reasoning.

FYI, I've yet to see you demonstrate any type of circular reasoning being used in the Empirical Theory of God thread that I started.

You might conceivably demonstrate some type of bias in terms of the interpretation of evidence, but that would be true of everyone.

 

[Freodin]

Ok, now we have fixation on certain terms without any showing of understanding.

A bot after all? It would need to be a highly specialized bot.

This really gets interesting... a kind of opposite Turing test. How unintelligent does a human being have to act to be mistaken for a computer program?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dear Zone, you say:


Is that your word salad of telling me that you will employ physical violence on my person?

Please, at least try to be honest.

Please clarify your word salad, for I am quite keen on your word salad warning.

Again, if you can't be honest there is no point in speaking with you. We know that your English skills are not that poor. If you want answers to questions you need to ask them politely and properly. Attacking others is not polite. Assuming that you know an answer when you do not is not proper.

While you are thinking over your word salad warning, please also apply your heart and mind, to contribute your take on my No. 1 request to all atheists, What exactly is your attitude toward God: He exists or not, or you have doubts?

I see that you are still being dishonest.

For if you have doubts, then stop conducting yourselves in words and in acts like militant atheists.

How have I done that? It seems that you are a "militant Christian".

And don't neglect to think as to reply to my No. 2 request to atheists, How have you taught yourselves as to identify yourselves with the label of atheist?

Sorry, but you get no proper answers until you ask proper questions. You started off this post badly so you will only get corrections for the most part.

Dear readers, let us also sit back and with bated breath await the reply of Zone to this post of mine, to witness what other warnings he is going to hurl on me, like physical violence on my person?

This sort of nonsense is why no one takes you seriously. I am not a Christian. I don't make false threats. I don't think that I have ever threatened anyone here since it would be rather pointless. It is rather difficult to reach through the screen and attack other posters.

Watch out, dear atheist Zone, that warning of physical violence is a crime in any society, even when made in the internet.

And who ever brought up physical violence except for you? It appears that you are projecting your sins upon others.

I would propose that you disabuse completely your heart and mine from any word salad of issuing warnings at all, in a message forum - just use the word advice instead of warning.

Then try to be honest. Don't use word salad. You are only impressing yourself.

By the use of the word zero, are you hinting that you will make me extinct, i.e. zero?

Wow! Amazingly poor reading comprehension on your part. If you want to pretend that you are more intelligent than others you need to learn how not to tip your hand. So far you have provided nothing. Twice nothing is still nothing. There was no threat there. A bit of paranoia on your part perhaps? Remember, I can't reach through the screen and attack you, even if I want to. Of course it would not be worth the bother.

Please clarify your word salad.

Again you are the one that uses word salad. You spew long worthless posts that no one reads. Again, if a person wants to fool people into thinking that he or she is bright that person should not give others the evidence that tells them this is not so.

 

[Pachomius]

Okay, Loudmouth, and Oh ye atheists here, Don't be into hiding and seeking, seeking to hide deeper and darker, from the issue itself, God exists or not, in particular at this point to reply to my request to you all, as follows:

Have you all yourselves ever by yourselves undertaken the task to search for evidence of God existing or not?

No hiding and seeking to hide ever more deeper and darker.

If you yourselves for yourselves and by yourselves never ever taken the task of searching for evidence of God existing or not, then all the time you have been into all kinds of word salads, i.e. into hiding and seeking to hide deeper and darker, from the issue itself of God existing or not.


So, dear readers here, when atheists here still do not come up with an account of how they themselves ever at all and by themselves for their own sake as to arrive at certainty, SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE - whatsoever word salads they dish out, they are still into hiding and seeking to hide ever deeper and darker.

Dear readers, don't get yourselves distracted by their word salads, when they have never ever done themselves by themselves searched for evidence of God existing or not.

What about myself, have I ever searched for evidence of God existing or not?

Yes, I had, and I have arrived at certainty that God exists, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause and operator cause of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.