How to prove Christianity for those who never heard of it?

[2PhiloVoid]

Well, to be fair, it does seem to be how people choose their particular flavor of religion.

Sure. Some do. In my case, I'd rather call it "extensive and cumulative pondering."

 

[DogmaHunter]

It comes down to this;

Does truth exist? If it does, than the natural question follows. Can mankind know it?

All man are given a choice whether they want to know the truth. Those that choose to know, shall know. Those that don’t, are free to live in whatever fantasy they choose to live in. But both groups reap the consequences of their choices. For God has created man in His image. That which is free in God, is also free in man, the “ability to choose.” For every creature has to have a nature. As sentient beings there are only two choices, a good one and bad one. Choose wisely my friend, for your decision you make is an eternal one.

For life is the greatest gift, if some choose to misuse it. It’s not a reason not to give it.

Much love and prayers, Not me

You're just preaching.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Choice is yours my friend, please choose wisely for your decision has eternal consequences.

And there come the threats..............................................

 

[DogmaHunter]

What is so special about my religion? Well, for starters, it challenges us to "love our enemies." It also tells me not to physically daly around with other women who are not my wife. Does your worldview and moral framework include these admonitions?

I don't consider "loving your enemies" to be a moral proposition.
The others: sure.

It also tells you that infantacide is okay, if god commands it.
It also tells you to burn "witches", kill homosexuals and that slavery is okay.

However, how you think this gives credence to the wild claims about reality in your religion, is a mystery.

 

[Not me]

And there come the threats..............................................

Or warnings.

in Christ, Not me

 

[DogmaHunter]

Or warnings.

Pot8to, potato.

It's the same thing.

 

[Not me]

Pot8to, potato.

It's the same thing.

If you see a blind man walking torward a cliff. Would it not be evil, to not warn them?

Whether or not that person listens or not is up to them. But than, their blood is on them and not on you. You did all you could to help.

In Christ, Not me

 

[DogmaHunter]

If you see a blind man walking torward a cliff. Would it not be evil, to not warn them?

False analogy.
Cliffs demonstrably exist and falling of them has demonstrable consequence.

Also: consequence. Not punishment.

The results of falling of a cliff, is a matter of blind causality and physics.
That's not a threat.

Punishment: that IS a threat.

Whether or not that person listens or not is up to them. But than, their blood is on them and not on you. You did all you could to help.

The equivalent to the god threats, would be something like putting a gun to your head and saying "give me your wallet, don't make me kill you". And if you then refuse to give your wallet and get shot.... then you didn't just commit suicide.

 

[Not me]

False analogy.
Cliffs demonstrably exist and falling of them has demonstrable consequence.

Also: consequence. Not punishment.

The results of falling of a cliff, is a matter of blind causality and physics.
That's not a threat.

Punishment: that IS a threat.



The equivalent to the god threats, would be something like putting a gun to your head and saying "give me your wallet, don't make me kill you". And if you then refuse to give your wallet and get shot.... then you didn't just commit suicide.

Hell is a natural consequence of sin. When it is understood what Hell is this will become plain;

When all is said and done, all that will remain is “God and goodness.” But to those that have chosen contary, “goodness” to them will be their highest contary. “Fire”
is the expression of the highest contary, so they can, for all eternity, only experience God’s love as their highest contary. Oh! the horror of Hell!

Yes it is very true. That God has used threats, promises, warnings, instructions and any and all things that might save one person from choosing the “not good”

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[KCfromNC]

Of course, then there's the issue of whether or not what "you require" is really incisive, insightful, prudent, or even fair. Sometimes, the ol' atheistic standby that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" turns out to be the expression of an extraordinary level of cynicism and demandingness.

Which times would those be? When Christian non-believers in Thor get cynical about the lack of evidence for him? Or did you have other situations in mind?

 

[bhsmte]

Hell is a natural consequence of sin. When it is understood what Hell is this will become plain;

When all is said and done, all that will remain is “God and goodness.” But to those that have chosen contary, “goodness” to them will be their highest contary. “Fire”
is the expression of the highest contary, so they can, for all eternity, only experience God’s love as their highest contary. Oh! the horror of Hell!

Yes it is very true. That God has used threats, promises, warnings, instructions and any and all things that might save one person from choosing the “not good”

Much love in Christ, Not me

Opinion and preaching.

But hey, you can do that if you like.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Which times would those be?

Typically, I find it's most of the time ... I'm mean, it almost the height of audacity for the horse to expect me to actually bring the water to him, and then he spits it out on the ground.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hell is a natural consequence of sin.

It is not, because in the mythology, it is a conscious being making a conscious choice to send you there. He could easily choose not to do that.

Falling down a cliff is a natural consequence of gravity and how it acts on objects with mass.
Being shot in the head upon refusing to hand over your wallet, is not a natural consequence of some phenomena. That's being murdered by someone who made conscious decision to do so.

When all is said and done, all that will remain is God and goodness. But to those that have chosen contary, “goodness” to them will be their highest contary

The god in your religion doesn't care about goodness. He only cares about what you believe for no good reason.

In your religion, a mass murderer who "repents and accepts jesus" and gets killed 5 seconds later, gets eternal reward.

A genuinely good person who is also an atheist, gets eternal punishment.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "being good" and everything with "being gullible".
"gullible", since the thing that needs to be believe, has no evidence at all going for it - which is why you need faith.

“Fire” is the expression of the highest contary, so they can, for all eternity, only experience God’s love as their highest contary. Oh! the horror of Hell!

Uhu.... and all that for not believing without evidence. For being rational. For using the brain that this god supposedly gave you.

Yes it is very true. That God has used threats, promises, warnings, instructions and any and all things that might save one person from choosing the “not good”

Beliefs are not a matter of choice.

Much love in Christ, Not me

What you just described, is the very opposite of "love".
It is, as Hitchins used to call it, the practice of a "heavenly north korea". Demanding unquestionable loyalty and belief on no evidence or else...

 

[Not me]

Opinion and preaching.

But hey, you can do that if you like.

Unless it’s the truth, it than would be a statement of fact.

In Christ, Not me

 

[KCfromNC]

Typically, I find it's most of the time ... I'm mean, it almost the height of audacity for the horse to expect me to actually bring the water to him, and then he spits it out on the ground.

Could be that it isn't water and that they just objectively have a better sense of smell.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Could be that it isn't water and that they just objectively have a better sense of smell.

True, it could be. I think I remember the Apostle Paul saying something to that effect ...

 

[bhsmte]

Unless it’s the truth, it than would be a statement of fact.

In Christ, Not me

Agree.

Facts lead to truth and facts, can be demonstrated, to be facts.

 

[Not me]

It is not, because in the mythology, it is a conscious being making a conscious choice to send you there. He could easily choose not to do that.

Falling down a cliff is a natural consequence of gravity and how it acts on objects with mass.
Being shot in the head upon refusing to hand over your wallet, is not a natural consequence of some phenomena. That's being murdered by someone who made conscious decision to do so.



The god in your religion doesn't care about goodness. He only cares about what you believe for no good reason.

In your religion, a mass murderer who "repents and accepts jesus" and gets killed 5 seconds later, gets eternal reward.

A genuinely good person who is also an atheist, gets eternal punishment.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "being good" and everything with "being gullible".
"gullible", since the thing that needs to be believe, has no evidence at all going for it - which is why you need faith.



Uhu.... and all that for not believing without evidence. For being rational. For using the brain that this god supposedly gave you.



Beliefs are not a matter of choice.



What you just described, is the very opposite of "love".
It is, as Hitchins used to call it, the practice of a "heavenly north korea". Demanding unquestionable loyalty and belief on no evidence or else...

Unless God made man eternal from the onset. With the ability to choose which nature was to be his. Good or evil.

In Christ, Not me

 

[KCfromNC]

I don't know that simply claiming that I need something or that it feels good to me is, or should be, a compelling reason to accept a religion. If you want to go that route, I could just say that I have a need not to have to be reincarnated and come back in this life as a gopher, over and over again until I "get it right."

The problem with this is that as long as everyone has their own "taste" in what are felt needs for certain criteria, then for the other person [the apologist] it's always going to be like trying to hit a target with a machete while blind-folded, or being a baker for someone who has Crohn's disease. It's just not going to work very well, and this is part of what I'm referring to in the previous posts in saying that there are more factors involved in what I personally consider for "believing" in Christ as a Risen Savior and Lord. There's also that messy epistmological stuff in the Bible that comes into play, too.

I really wonder how well people who say this sort of thing would react if others used these sorts of excuses in any setting other than religious discussion. What if their employer just asserted that paying them or not was a question of personal taste and so on. I think this whole bout of relativism would be cured really quickly if circumstances didn't allow it to be applied piece-meal only to religion.

 

[bhsmte]

Typically, I find it's most of the time ... I'm mean, it almost the height of audacity for the horse to expect me to actually bring the water to him, and then he spits it out on the ground.

Might depend what kind of water you are delivering and whether that water is something that would be beneficial to a person.