How to protect yourself from Legalism

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DeepWater

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I'm so tired of hearing that those that obey God are trying to HELP HIM and are INSULTING HIM.

If you insult Grace, and the Blood of Christ, by coming to a Forum like this one, to publically prove that you are adding your works to the Cross to save yourself, i dont expect that you will appreciate what im teaching.
Perhaps you can explain why you are not Trusting in Christ to Keep you saved, and want to instead give me your reasons for trying to keep yourself saved?
Do you even have a clue as to the reason you started believing that you have to keep yourself saved?
Was it your minister that led you to this idea?
How did you go from Grace to "works for salvation"?
Do you even know?
 
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DeepWater

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No, im teaching that people that live in James, Hebrews, and Matthew, and the Old Testament, are ignorant of Paul's doctrine, and that is why they are trying to save themselves, by their lifestyle.
So, if they are actually saved, they are absolutely "fallen from grace", and are in the flesh, as Paul teaches about them, in Galatians.
You might try reading this epistle, as its directed at all who are "working to stay saved", instead of
THIS :

Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
 
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GodsGrace101

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I didn't speak to you about my minister.
I gave you scriptural reasons why you're iincorrect in your beliefs.

God has always wanted obedience...this idea did not start in the century, but has always been believed.

Instead of YOUR OPINION, why not reply to my verses and copy some of your own that you believe state that good deeds/obedience are not necessary to be saved, and that one could live how he wants to (which was YOUR statement) and still be saved.

Thanks.
 
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DeepWater

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Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians to deal with you, and your theology.
Do you not realize that the letter that Paul wrote to the Galatians, is talking directly to and about, a person who says they are saved, and has gotten away from Grace, (fallen), and is now running around trying to ruin the faith of other believers by teaching them that "works" and Not CHRIST< are what keeps a born again Christian, saved?

So, Paul and Galatians have already, 2000 yrs ago, responded to your cut and paste effort to prove you are a Legalist.
Its proven. You dont have to keep proving it.
God knows it, i know it, and you like to keep bragging about it using scripture, just like the rest of the Legalists will continue to do on this Thread, and everywhere else then can spread it.

Galatians 1:8
 
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GodsGrace101

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Maybe we could eliminate James, Hebrews and Matthew from the N.T. if they disturb you so much.
I quoted to you what JESUS said,,,not Paul or James,,,I did show that Paul AGREES with Jesus.
You believe they don't agree?

IOW, Jesus taught what He did for over 3 years and then He told Paul to teach something different?

Maybe we should remove the book and gospel of John too since Jesus said many things in that book that speaks to good deeds and obedience to Him.

Philippians 1:6
Do you or do you NOT believe in free will? You didn't reply.

God will finish the work He began in us as long as we ALLOW HIM to. Jesus Himself said He would send the Holy Spiri to be our parclete...John 16:7
Jesus said He had to go away so the Holy Spirit could come to us.

The Holy Spirit dwells in a temple.
We are not that temple if we don't live according to how Jesus would want us to.

Hebrews 12:2
Yes, very good. But what does this say about OUR part in our salvation? Just read verse 1...

Hebrews 12:1-3
Jesus, the Example

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Notice the title of these verses...Jesus is our example. This is also the atonement theory of Moral Influence.

Notice that WE are told TO RUN the race set before us...Jesus did HIS part, now we do ours.

See also:
Philippians 2:12
12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Paul tell us to WORK OUT our salvation...
(should we eliminate Hebrews too?)
 
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DeepWater

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There is no need to try to teach me Legalism.
Ok?
So, no need to present your case, as you might realize i just wrote 10,000 words, describing you and what you believe.
So, if you want to teach Galatians 1:8, then go ahead, but, no need to teach it to me.

Here is a question for you.
I realize that i can't save myself and i can't keep myself saved.
If i could, then Jesus didn't need to come here and be butchered on a Cross for me.
Why dont you realize this?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Where's the Scripture?
You dont' have any.

You post heresies.
1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
 
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GodsGrace101

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Which "works" would that be?
Do you know?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Yes sir.
I like to post scripture...
NOT my OPINION...
 
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timewerx

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theology that replaces Grace with works. ... Galatians 1:8......"Legalism".

Grace produces faith and faith produces works.

100% approved by Paul

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

And love.....

1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
 
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GodsGrace101

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When Paul speaks about "works", he's speaking about the 613 O.C. laws.

This does not mean, as some believe, that we are not to obey the 10 commandments or do good deeds...The N.T. calls us to live out our faith with love and by doing good to all.


Galatians 6:10
So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
 
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timewerx

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Pardon my use of words. I should have said "fruits" right?

That's true about Galatians 6:10. St. John supplanted that teaching in greater detail in 1 John 3:15-18

Indeed there are many things we can do that is good to others, as well things that would be bad to others (which we must avoid). Things like arrogance, indifference, lack of compassion/care/courtesy, unforgiving, unruly / wild behavior, etc can actually hurt people in many ways, including physical and by causing accidents and we must avoid such things.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Fruits is different from "works" or good deeds.
Fruits are received from us and given to us by the Holy Spirit.

They can be found in
Galatians 5:22-25
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

There are 9:
LOVE
JOY
PEACE
PATIENCE
KINDNESS
GOODNESS
FAITHFULNESS
GENTLENESS
SELF-CONTROL

The good we do is our reasonable service that we do for God...as HIS laborers:

1 Corinthians 15:58 and many more.
58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.


In Luke 6:35 Jesus said:
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men."

We could say that good works/deeds are what we do for others and fruit is what we receive from the Holy Spirit for ourselves; which help us in our Christian growth.
 
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timewerx

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Yup, it goes back to love

The bottomline is action as 1 John 3:18 says.
 
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NeedyFollower

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And I think it not unreasonable that Cain also called Able a legalist for offering a better sacrifice . And that same spirit will always pursue Able . Everything we do that is well done ...every good and perfect gift IS from above and our hope is Jesus Christ but brother take care ...OSAS may keep believers from heeding Jesus warning to the churches in revelation to repent . Just like in Jeremiah's day the false prophets caused the children of Israel to be in rebellion rather than heed God's word .
Many just want to go to heaven ...some wish to be like Jesus .
 
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Bruce Leiter

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So why do you invest yourself in this forum? Read Ephesians 1-3 for God's gospel's "already" and chapters 4-6 for his "not-yet," the places we need to improve. Do the same with Colossians 1 and 2 as well as 3 and 4; Romans 1-11 ('already") and 12-16 ("not-yet"); and Hebrews 1-11 and 12 to the end.
 
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klutedavid

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Yup, it goes back to love

The bottomline is action as 1 John 3:18 says.
But you are not saved according to the level of love that you exert towards others. Love is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

A person is saved by grace first and last.

The confusion arises because people incorrectly understand that our salvation is a free gift and cannot be acquired on the basis of any personal merit.

It is not faith plus works, salvation is always by grace through faith. The works are necessary but do not provide any leverage for the goal of salvation.

Christ reconciled us and we had no part to play in that reconciliation.
 
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timewerx

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The works are simply evidence of finding real faith, true salvation, God's grace, and true belief.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
 
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klutedavid

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Correct.

The works are the external result of the inner reconciliation granted in Christ.

Christ first and Christ last.
 
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